Another crappy thing about tutorgate......

[thekimmer]

The main thing of course is not having some of your best players available for 3/4 of the season. But because coaches must select the games these guys play it also forces the coaching staff to essentially tell their team that they are conceding certain games.

Sure there are games that are longshots anyway but as a coach you always do your best to get your team as psyched up to play as you can and who knows what might happen? But with selective suspensions, when you hold those players out against a highly favored team you send an unmistakable message to your team that you don't think they have a chance, motivation becomes virtually impossible and the effect is way more than just the loss of talent. Thus, I expect croomesque beatdowns in any such games. The problem is fans get the same message too so expect both the field and stands to be taken over by the visitors in the bama and lsu games.

So, with that said, does autry and gay play tomorrow?

 

[MeridianDog]

Concede a game? Other than Alabama, never.


OK, Not even Alabama.

 

[thekimmer]

I agree and the staff will never say that either but actions speak louder than words. I don't disagree with the strategy it just stinks that we have to use it.

 

[shotgunDawg]

The main thing of course is not having some of your best players available for 3/4 of the season. But because coaches must select the games these guys play it also forces the coaching staff to essentially tell their team that they are conceding certain games.

Sure there are games that are longshots anyway but as a coach you always do your best to get your team as psyched up to play as you can and who knows what might happen? But with selective suspensions, when you hold those players out against a highly favored team you send an unmistakable message to your team that you don't think they have a chance, motivation becomes virtually impossible and the effect is way more than just the loss of talent. Thus, I expect croomesque beatdowns in any such games. The problem is fans get the same message too so expect both the field and stands to be taken over by the visitors in the bama and lsu games.

So, with that said, does autry and gay play tomorrow?

Great points.

No, Autry & Gay will not play tomorrow & it's a horrible mistake because the 20-30% chance we had to win this game probably just got tossed in the garbage can because Joe is telling the team they can't win & will thus struggle to build belief & confidence.

Your post is dead on.

 

[bierto]

This is a big reason why if it were me, I’d play them Kentucky, auburn, Tennessee and then the egg bowl. Then you’re playing them the first 3 sec games and the egg bowl. I like the message it sends and the actual games we’d be playing guys too.

 

[shotgunDawg]

I agree and the staff will never say that either but actions speak louder than words. I don't disagree with the strategy it just stinks that we have to use it.

They are certainly in a tough situation.

I think just at the end of the day it's easier to tell the team that Willie & Autry are out of games to play or we are saving their last game for the Egg Bowl, than it is to explain why we aren't playing them vs Auburn when the entire season is in front of us.

If you play Willie vs Auburn & TN, then it's easy vs LSU, Arkansas, Bama, & A&M to just tell them that Willie & Autry can't play. You can still build confidence & belief by saying that. You lose that ability when you just choose to not play them because you think other games are more winnable.

Again, it's an awful decision by JoMo

 

[shotgunDawg]

This is a big reason why if it were me, I’d play them Kentucky, auburn, Tennessee and then the egg bowl. Then you’re playing them the first 3 sec games and the egg bowl. I like the message it sends and the actual games we’d be playing guys too.

100% agree

 

[Maroon Eagle]

No. I commented earlier this morning that they should both start against Tennessee, Ole Miss, and maybe Arkansas though I might be convinced to split them up and have one play against Texas A&M.

 

[Dawgzilla]

It is only 2/3 of the season. And if I were head coach I would suspend them all for the first 8 games, primarily for the reasons you said. No game is conceded, no game is a walkover. We play with the men we have.

 

[TheStateUofMS]

No I don't believe this to be true at all. These guys are competitors. They believe they can win every game.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

This is a big reason why if it were me, I’d play them Kentucky, auburn, Tennessee and then the egg bowl. Then you’re playing them the first 3 sec games and the egg bowl. I like the message it sends and the actual games we’d be playing guys too.

The flip side is what happens if we have two DTs go down? Then you have to basically play the rest of the season without Autry and two other DTs.

 

[thekimmer]

This is a big reason why if it were me, I’d play them Kentucky, auburn, Tennessee and then the egg bowl. Then you’re playing them the first 3 sec games and the egg bowl. I like the message it sends and the actual games we’d be playing guys too.

I agree with this strategy although I might do uk, auburn, UT and LSU. We can beat mississippi without them. Although I will never understand why autry played against usm because there is no suitable explanation.

 

[shotgunDawg]

No. I commented earlier this morning that they should both start against Tennessee, Ole Miss, and maybe Arkansas though I might be convinced to split them up and have one play against Texas A&M.

Using them vs Arkansas is silly & reeks of coaching scared. Chad Morris has never beaten a power 5 school as a head coach.

I understand using them vs A&M. I get it. I just think that using them vs Auburn makes it easier to build belief & confidence throughout the season.

A&M is more winnable than Auburn, but by how much? We may have a 30-35% chance of winning vs Auburn & a 40-45% chance vs A&M?

Is that difference really worth sending a message to the team that you don't think they can win?

 

[Diggin Out Yo Wife]

No. I commented earlier this morning that they should both start against Tennessee, Ole Miss, and maybe Arkansas though I might be convinced to split them up and have one play against Texas A&M.

I think you're missing the real point here. I agree, logically it sounds best to use a strategy to win the most games, but it sends a terrible message to the team. How can you sit up there and give a pregame speech when you've conceded a loss?

Honestly the best way to do it is just play them all the last 4 games of the year. You can live with that. Toothpaste out of the tube there though. That's why I'm hoping that there's more to the story with Autry and Gay.

 

[shotgunDawg]

The flip side is what happens if we have two DTs go down? Then you have to basically play the rest of the season without Autry and two other DTs.

Any what if we have 2 QBs go down by the A&M & we don't have enough offense to win regardless?

We can play ifs & buts all day on injuries. I know that Auburn is this weekend & we have chance if everyone plays. You can't say that about A&M right now

 

[patdog]

Considering Auburn had that game in hand from early on, I'd say it's significantly more likely we beat A&M with the suspended players than Auburn. How's it going to build belief & confidence if you use them against Auburn and we lose?

 

[maroonmania]

Great points.

No, Autry & Gay will not play tomorrow & it's a horrible mistake because the 20-30% chance we had to win this game probably just got tossed in the garbage can because Joe is telling the team they can't win & will thus struggle to build belief & confidence.

Your post is dead on.

The horrible mistake was playing Autry against USM where he was totally not needed. Playing tomorrow or not I can see either way. But one issue is if you go ahead and burn their 4 games early on we are going to be in a world of hurt after that if lose players to injury in the wrong positions. What happens on defense if Lovett goes down or Thompson or Lewis goes down and you have no eligibility left for Gay or Autry? We would be hurting even trying to win the Ark and OM games. While the other guys are still healthy, in a game we will probably lose anyway, I'm actually OK if the coaches decide to sit them tomorrow.

 

[MSUDC11]

I don't see how not playing the suspended guys tells the team that you're conceding the game. To me it tells the guys who have stayed out of trouble that you have faith in them to get the job done. And it's not like all of the suspended guys are our best players. Gay is frankly the only difference maker of that group, we got gashed on the ground Saturday even with Autry in the game. I feel like the team understands the situation, and most of our best players are not the ones suspended. I mean seriously, has anyone in that group other than Gay and Autry done anything remotely meaningful in a game for us? If they have I sure can't think of it.

As I've said before, you can make a case for playing them in every game left on our schedule other than Abilene Christian:

Auburn and A&M - toss-ups or likely losses that are more winnable with Gay and Autry
Bama and LSU - losses that can be more competitive with Gay and Autry
Tennessee, Arkansas, Ole Miss - likely wins that may be loseable without Gay and Autry

There's a lot of gray area to navigate here, definitely not a black and white issue. We're at the point of the season now where it makes sense to play them in just about any of the remaining games. I don't know that there's a sure-fire right or wrong answer, it just kind of is what it is.

 

[shotgunDawg]

Considering Auburn had that game in hand from early on, I'd say it's significantly more likely we beat A&M with the suspended players than Auburn. How's it going to build belief & confidence if you use them against Auburn and we lose?

Teams lose games all the time. At least you'd be putting it in the player's hands vs telling them you don't think they'll win.

Again, it's easier to sell players on: "Hey guys, I believe in you, but Willie & Autry are out of games" than "Hey guys, I believe in you, but we are saving Willie & Autry for other games"

There is a huge difference in the mentality between those two statements.

To the first phrase, the player responds: "Ok, lets take care of business. it is what it is" to the 2nd phrase the player responds,"Coach, why aren't we playing Willie & Autry?" And thus the problem begins

 

[shotgunDawg]

I don't see how not playing the suspended guys tells the team that you're conceding the game. To me it tells the guys who have stayed out of trouble that you have faith in them to get the job done.

Players ask questions. They aren't stupid

 

[thekimmer]

Considering Auburn had that game in hand from early on, I'd say it's significantly more likely we beat A&M with the suspended players than Auburn. How's it going to build belief & confidence if you use them against Auburn and we lose?

It is a crap shoot. Playing gay and autry tomorrow provides the best chance to win both games but then also the most risk to lose both. Holding them out tomorrow gives you the best chance to win one but virtually guarantee you will lose one.

To me at this point I think you play your best players until you can't then just take your chances.

 

[Xenomorph]

At this point Joe needs to do everything in his power to not lose the games left on the schedule that we should absolutely win. Auburn doesn't fit that bill.

Those rank in order... Sharks, UT, Pigs, Ab.Christ.

Since the suspended starters have 2 or 3 games left to play.. I think it's clear when they should suit up.

 

[Diggin Out Yo Wife]

Players ask questions. They aren't stupid

If people don't just 'get' this point, they never will. I was surprised when Matt Wyatt was suggesting doing this too.

 

[MSUDC11]

Players ask questions. They aren't stupid

They aren't stupid, that's the one thing you're right about. They are smart enough to realize their teammates put them in a bind and now they have to play a bunch of games without them.

You seriously think that if we don't play the suspended guys in a certain game that means we are just waving the white flag? I guess that means we conceded Kansas State then. We play in the freaking SEC West. Every game is a struggle on some level. When you only have these guys for 33% of your season, you're going to have to figure out how to play without them.

Don't miss the forest through the trees here. No matter what happens on Saturday, we still have six more conference games, most of which are games we could very well lose. I know this weekend is important, but you can't just totally ignore the big picture either. If they play, it's fine, if they don't play, I don't think it means we've conceded this game.

 

[shotgunDawg]

They aren't stupid, that's the one thing you're right about. They are smart enough to realize their teammates put them in a bind and now they have to play a bunch of games without them.

This is irrelevant.

Just because those players screwed up doesn't mean the coaches aren't charged with using them in the best possible way

 

[kired]

I don't think it says that at all. Just a logical approach is to spread the games out.

You don't suspend them for the first 8, because if one of those guys gets injured in their first game in early November - they could miss the last 3 games due to injury. You don't burn them all in the first half of the season because you may lose another starter in game 8 and then you're essentially down two starters for the last 4 games. If Moorhead was smart, he'd tell the whole team those guys are going to play every few weeks or as needed due to injuries.

Personally I plan to play them against LSU and A&M. That's in the middle of a tough 4 game stretch between our bye weeks. Then save Gay for the Egg Bowl.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

That's exactly why I'm thinking skip Auburn & have at least one play against aTm.

 

[Go Budaw]

Exactly. A college head coach’s job is to recruit his *** off and get the team up to play every single Saturday with whoever is available to play and play well. Going through the schedule and circling wins, losses, and tossups is NEVER something that any coach should ever be expected to do. It goes against everything about the profession itself.

If it were me, honestly, I would have probably told all 10 guys they were done until November and been done with it. Or let the players that weren’t 17ing around and cheating vote on when they wanted their teammates there with them. This player eligibility optimization project for 10 guys over 12 games is an exercise in futility in which there are no right answers.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I agree with your last paragraph.

I'm kind of thinking that what will likely happen is that Moorhead will make them play in separate games until the last game of the season.

Gay starts against Tennessee, Arkansas, and Ole Miss.
Autry starts against Auburn, aTm, and Ole Miss.
Or some variation thereof.

Edit to note: Yeah, I changed my mind. I think one will play against Auburn-- but I don't know if it's the best thing to do.

 

[dickiedawg]

You've put way more thought into this than 90% of the players, I'd bet.

 

[thekimmer]

You seriously think that if we don't play the suspended guys in a certain game that means we are just waving the white flag?

Not directly no, you would never do that, but indirectly yes it does carry that connotation. Otherwise one would logically play the full squad against the best 4 opponents on the schedule.

 

[RiverCityDawg]

1) I don't think not playing Gay tosses the small chance we have in the garbage because it sends a bad message to the team. I think it tosses the small chance in the garbage because Leo doesn't care to take on blocks or chase speed sweeps all game, so we need Gay in there to make some plays.

2) I can't believe some people think we should play Gay and/or Autry against Arkansas. Arkansas might win one more game. Maybe. They just got blown out by San. Jose. State. We should be able to beat them with Washington and Brule at linebacker and Kendal Jones at DT. Tennessee is almost as bad, so I'm not playing them there either. I think it should be Auburn, A&M and ole miss for Gay. Auburn and ole miss for Autry. If Stevens is a no-go tomorrow you could persuade me not to play Gay and Autry either and play Gay against LSU and Autry against A&M.

 

[thekimmer]

1) I don't think not playing Gay tosses the small chance we have in the garbage because it sends a bad message to the team. I think it tosses the small chance in the garbage because Leo doesn't care to take on blocks or chase speed sweeps all game, so we need Gay in there to make some plays.

2) I can't believe some people think we should play Gay and/or Autry against Arkansas. Arkansas might win one more game. Maybe. They just got blown out by San. Jose. State. We should be able to beat them with Washington and Brule at linebacker and Kendal Jones at DT. Tennessee is almost as bad, so I'm not playing them there either. I think it should be Auburn, A&M and ole miss for Gay. Auburn and ole miss for Autry. If Stevens is a no-go tomorrow you could persuade me not to play Gay and Autry either and play Gay against LSU and Autry against A&M.

Meritorious points both but #2 is especially true. If we even think we need gay and autry to beat arky we might as well pack it up now.

 

[dickiedawg]

I'm playing Gay and Autry both against Tennessee and Ole Miss. In my mind, those are the two most important games left on the schedule. Ole Miss is a given, and Tennessee (according to FPI) is the closest game to a toss-up left.

Yes, you feel like we could beat both of those teams short handed. But the stakes are too high for you to be wrong about that. Take your 7-5 (4-4), go trounce some ACC team in the Music City Bowl and enter 2020 feeling pretty good about yourself.

 

[Tall Dawg]

Exactly correct RC Dawg!!!
If we can’t BBQ the Hogs w/o Gay and Autry we shouldn’t make the trip to Arky. #HogsAreAwful

I’d play Gay and Autry against Burn.

 

[johnson86-1]

Teams lose games all the time. At least you'd be putting it in the player's hands vs telling them you don't think they'll win.

Again, it's easier to sell players on: "Hey guys, I believe in you, but Willie & Autry are out of games" than "Hey guys, I believe in you, but we are saving Willie & Autry for other games"

There is a huge difference in the mentality between those two statements.

To the first phrase, the player responds: "Ok, lets take care of business. it is what it is" to the 2nd phrase the player responds,"Coach, why aren't we playing Willie & Autry?" And thus the problem begins

You are assuming players are stupid and will play harder if their coaches are stupid. That's just not the case. Players want to win too.

 

[NWADawg]

The other part that sucks is that by staggering 8 games across however many players is that, it almost guarantees that the talking heads will have the opportunity to talk about the suspensions and have a negative "go to" for their ramble virtually the entire season.

 

[J-Dawg]

No I don't believe this to be true at all. These guys are competitors. They believe they can win every game.

Bingo. You guys got to remember that the players don't have the same skeptical views of themselves that (some of) the fans do. They aren't sitting in a circle in the locker room debating and dissecting things from the viewpoint that we do.

Fact is, every athlete on that team is an "alpha" and believes that they are the best at their position. That's why they are athletes and competitors. Whoever is on the depth chart behind Willie Gay or Autry is just waiting their turn and believes they will produce when called upon. Last thing on their minds is "oh, well coach isn't playing Willie in this game, we are a 10 point underdog so he's basically throwing in the towel". That's ridiculous talk.

 

[MSUDC11]

Not directly no, you would never do that, but indirectly yes it does carry that connotation. Otherwise one would logically play the full squad against the best 4 opponents on the schedule.

I'm just not buying that at all. The only people who think we are conceding this game if we don't play Gay and Autry are the internet fans who overanalyze everything to death. I feel 100% confident that our coaches and players feel like this is a winnable game regardless of if the suspended guys play or not.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

The players aren't stupid. They know what the odds are each game. I would play full strength against Auburn, A&M and Ole Miss. We are in deep **** if we cant beat Arky and Tennessee without the suspended players