Maroon Eagle - Can you explain the USM hate towards us?

[wpmusm]

I’ll have to disagree with you on UAB and South Alabama. Yeah, UAB has some hybrid fans but they also have some diehards. And their diehards REALLY hate Alabama because of the BOT trying to shut down the football program. Hell, they’re one of the few schools that actually brings fans to Hattiesburg.

I went to a South Al/Oklahoma State game at Ladd-Peebles back in 2017 and there were a ton of people in Bama gear there. I’d guess a sizable portion of that crowd that night were Bammers interested in seeing a top 10 team in town. USA doesn’t really have a strong following except maybe in baseball and even then their attendance is well behind schools like ULL, USM, ECU, etc.

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

That game was a lot of fun

It was for you guys, and the next year in Starkville was too, I'm sure! From USM's perspective, we went 10-2 in 1988, and State was Tech and 10. We hadn't lost in football to you but twice (84 and 85) in over a decade. We beat a top-10 FSU the week before. Then you bleepers rolled into Hattiesburg and took us down, then in 1990 beat one of our best teams that had just knocked off Bama and lost to Georgia by 1 on a doinked FG as time ran out (and would later beat Auburn). The college football world all that occurred in no longer exists. Now you guys and the SEC are in a different world and we're scraping by in Conference DOA. I enjoy the games between us. I have a lot of great MSU family and friends.

 

[was21]

It's really simple: envy

 

[mount lefroy]

You mention this a few times over the years that you have USM ties, and in the other thread you said you got to know many MSU graduates. Rosey mentioned that he has a big USM family and he has never understood the chip on the shoulder towards MSU. Specifically because we have always played them and Ole Miss has not. Seems like they'd see MSU favorably and harbor more hate towards Ole Miss. He says there is always some incident between them and us every time we play in Hattiesburg.

It's even more weird because in general MSU fans are more down to earth. Why do they choose to hate us?

Shame too, because Hattiesburg is a good town with a good economy, and we need more of those in Mississippi (and Mississippi State graduates to move to them).

It’s never been hate on their side. It was baiting. They wanted to play us every year because the potential to win was a potential for big prizes. In their world, a good season needed an upset of a team in a bigger conference.

Of course, until we beat them more often than not, we hated them.

I think we should play them now. Mainly because their reputation nationally is not as a pushover. They have given the better teams all they wanted. How accurate that is now is debatable but we are entering an era that teams on the bubble of making the playoff are compared by their non con and if we are winning them all we don’t need abeline, ULL and USM on the schedule. We need 2 KSU’s plus USM, and either Tulane or Memphis for the fan trip.

La Tech, MTSU, Troy,ULM, Samford, S. Alabama, UAB have all had some success, but if we are going to play any of them, we should play USM as the $ stay in state. Damn the risk of losing. So what. Its a game. The 70’s and 80’s should be forgotten as irrelevant history. Let Ole Miss decision to not play them be our gain.

Hatred be damned

 

[Eleven Bravo]

You can count me in with the group that doesn’t think we should play them. Your OOC games should be games that you don’t have to worry about losing. The last thing you need is scheduling an OOC opponent who is motivated you beat your *** as badly as they can. They have tremendous motivation to beat us, and it no secret that they have it.

I’m one of those “older” fans who remembers back in the 70’s and 80’s when they beat us soundly pretty much every time we played them. Our players just came out like it was just another game and they always came out with their hair on fire and played like men possessed. Those were always rough, physical games because of the intensity that Southern played with. We always ended up with multiple serious injuries in those games, and that just added injury to the insult of losing to them the way we did. When I think about those games I always visualize Reggie Collier (a very gifted QB) running through our LB’s and DB’s and making them miss tackle after tackle as he ran 50-60 yards through them on his way to the end zone. Old Reggie did this a number of times over the years-he definitely had MSU’s number. Hell, Mississippi Southern had our number. I live about 50 miles from Hattiesburg and go there about once a week-not to mention that I live in a town full of Southern graduates. I caught so much grief from those 17’ers over the years they were beating our asses with regularity. That’s the real reason I don’t like us playing them. As I recall we usually played them the week before we played Alabama, and they focused on playing us like we focus on Alabama.

It’s fun playing them as long as you beat them, but lose to them and I guarantee you that those who love us playing them won’t love the idea nearly as much. Lose to them twice and you will absolutely hate them. I promise you that you will.

We play whoever is on the schedule. That schedule is pretty demanding playing all the SEC West schools by themselves. Adding USM just makes the OOC schedule tougher than it has to be. If they are on there, that’s fine. Our kids will play whoever is on there. I would personally be a lot less concerned if we stuck with OOC opponents who barely have a pulse. Teams like USM can be the difference between playing in a bowl game and staying at home. I say that based upon past experiences. I believe that the biggest reason we stopped playing them (besides the fact that our fans got tired of losing to them) centered around the split of the money. USM wanted half the gate when they had to play us in Starkville but our fans purchased 80-85% of the tickets. At least we were told that this disagreement over splitting the proceeds from the games was the reason the series was discontinued.

 

[mount lefroy]

You can count me in with the group that doesn’t think we should play them. Your OOC games should be games that you don’t have to worry about losing. The last thing you need is scheduling an OOC opponent who is motivated you beat your *** as badly as they can. They have tremendous motivation to beat us, and it no secret that they have it.

I’m one of those “older” fans who remembers back in the 70’s and 80’s when they beat us soundly pretty much every time we played them. Our players just came out like it was just another game and they always came out with their hair on fire and played like men possessed. Those were always rough, physical games because of the intensity that Southern played with. We always ended up with multiple serious injuries in those games, and that just added injury to the insult of losing to them the way we did. When I think about those games I always visualize Reggie Collier (a very gifted QB) running through our LB’s and DB’s and making them miss tackle after tackle as he ran 50-60 yards through them on his way to the end zone. Old Reggie did this a number of times over the years-he definitely had MSU’s number. Hell, Mississippi Southern had our number. I live about 50 miles from Hattiesburg and go there about once a week-not to mention that I live in a town full of Southern graduates. I caught so much grief from those 17’ers over the years they were beating our asses with regularity. That’s the real reason I don’t like us playing them. As I recall we usually played them the week before we played Alabama, and they focused on playing us like we focus on Alabama.

It’s fun playing them as long as you beat them, but lose to them and I guarantee you that those who love us playing them won’t love the idea nearly as much. Lose to them twice and you will absolutely hate them. I promise you that you will.

We play whoever is on the schedule. That schedule is pretty demanding playing all the SEC West schools by themselves. Adding USM just makes the OOC schedule tougher than it has to be. If they are on there, that’s fine. Our kids will play whoever is on there. I would personally be a lot less concerned if we stuck with OOC opponents who barely have a pulse. Teams like USM can be the difference between playing in a bowl game and staying at home. I say that based upon past experiences. I believe that the biggest reason we stopped playing them (besides the fact that our fans got tired of losing to them) centered around the split of the money. USM wanted half the gate when they had to play us in Starkville but our fans purchased 80-85% of the tickets. At least we were told that this disagreement over splitting the proceeds from the games was the reason the series was discontinued.

Ok, in this day and age, we need the latitude to lose a regular season game, make the sec championship game and win and not be in jeopardy of being exluded from the final 4. Or lose 2, get in the SECCG ,win and not be left out. Or undefeated, lose the SECCG and still get in. You can get away with that with an in state rival on your schedule. You cannot with Abeline, ULL and another non USM patsy. we have to play a P5 non con so this is really about the other 3 now.

FWIW, I'm an old timer like you. I remember those feelings and you are correct. And I felt the way you did until the playoff. My theory is they lend our schedule credibility no matter how poor they are. Unlike a ULL, USA or Troy, as our 3rd non con, they would not be as much of a liability. I'm about whatever increases our chances of making the playoff in ANY bubble scenario. Call them the best ingredient in a bad recipe if you will.

 

[GloryDawg]

15k...?
Went to Marshall game last year and may have been 10-11k there....maybe.

Have a USM friend who said they have a few thousand who stay at their tailgating spots and never come into stadium.
He said obviously it would help some if they would all come in although not much.

I used 15K because I thought that was what you had to have on a two year attendance average in order to maintain FBS status.

 

[patdog]

I'm an old timer too, and I do remember those games in the early 80s. But I also realize that time have changed drastically since then. When we play USM, it's not as big a game for them as it was back then, and they just can't be anywhere near as competitive with a P5 school as they could back then. Even if we were to lose a game to them, it would be rare and wouldn't have any real effect on anything other than 1 OOC game in that 1 season. No reason not to schedule them occasionally on a 2-for-1 basis.

 

[Arthur2478]

Southern fans are the worst winners on Earth. It’s been over 30 years since Southern beat State in football and because of this I think a lot of State fans have either forgotten or are too young to know how big of ******** USM fans can be. Losing to them is miserable. I’d just assume let their athletic department die on the vine instead of playing them in anything.

 

[dorndawg]

Ok, in this day and age, we need the latitude to lose a regular season game, make the sec championship game and win and not be in jeopardy of being exluded from the final 4. Or lose 2, get in the SECCG ,win and not be left out. Or undefeated, lose the SECCG and still get in. You can get away with that with an in state rival on your schedule. You cannot with Abeline, ULL and another non USM patsy. we have to play a P5 non con so this is really about the other 3 now.

FWIW, I'm an old timer like you. I remember those feelings and you are correct. And I felt the way you did until the playoff. My theory is they lend our schedule credibility no matter how poor they are. Unlike a ULL, USA or Troy, as our 3rd non con, they would not be as much of a liability. I'm about whatever increases our chances of making the playoff in ANY bubble scenario. Call them the best ingredient in a bad recipe if you will.

At this point, if we lose to Southern in football, we're also going to lose 4-6 other games at least.

 

[Goat Holding Inc]

Ok, in this day and age, we need the latitude to lose a regular season game, make the sec championship game and win and not be in jeopardy of being exluded from the final 4. Or lose 2, get in the SECCG ,win and not be left out. Or undefeated, lose the SECCG and still get in. You can get away with that with an in state rival on your schedule. You cannot with Abeline, ULL and another non USM patsy. we have to play a P5 non con so this is really about the other 3 now.

FWIW, I'm an old timer like you. I remember those feelings and you are correct. And I felt the way you did until the playoff. My theory is they lend our schedule credibility no matter how poor they are. Unlike a ULL, USA or Troy, as our 3rd non con, they would not be as much of a liability. I'm about whatever increases our chances of making the playoff in ANY bubble scenario. Call them the best ingredient in a bad recipe if you will.

Problem is, none of that is true. They lend us NO credibility. The SEC +1 P5 is PLENTY. Playing USM or ULL makes no difference whatsoever.

And yes. If we scheduled who you said above, lost an SEC game, then won the SEC title, we would NOT get left out. You have bumped yo head

 

[campshelbydog842003]

The difference between us and USM has never been larger. If we have to worry about losing to them we have much bigger issues, like the ones we had in 2016 when we lost to South Alabama. They wanted to play us for years and years and years and now every time we play them we kick their teeth in. They used to crow about us being scared to play them but I have a feeling that after a few more *** whippings they are going to start trying and schedule a P5 OOC opponent that they don’t consider a “rival” instead of us. They will still lose the game but don’t have to take the embarrassment of continually losing to a team that they talked **** too for a long time.

 

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

I know that we all like to moan and groan about SEC bias towards Bama along with all kinds of other crap, but if we’re being honest... the fact that both MSU and OM are even in the SEC is about as lucky as hitting the lottery. Talk about being in the right place at the exactly right damn time

I completely disagree with this statement. I can't even begin to tell you incorrect this is. EVERY SCHOOL in the SEC was in the right place and the right time when the SEC was formed. Do you think Georgia or Alabama would be who they are without the SEC? Nobody would be the school they are today without being lucky enough to be included in the SEC pairings from the beginning.

This is not just a "poor ole state got damn lucky" argument. All SEC schools are lucky in that right.

 

[tcdog70]

I'm an old timer too, and I do remember those games in the early 80s. But I also realize that time have changed drastically since then. When we play USM, it's not as big a game for them as it was back then, and they just can't be anywhere near as competitive with a P5 school as they could back then. Even if we were to lose a game to them, it would be rare and wouldn't have any real effect on anything other than 1 OOC game in that 1 season. No reason not to schedule them occasionally on a 2-for-1 basis.

Were you there when we knocked Reggie out of the game. Then we were pounding that Buzzard ***--until a roar from their sideline and Reggie came running back in and proceeded to whip our ***. That is why I always want to beat the piss out of them.

of course there was a time I got into a brawl with those polyester 17s in the lobby of the Holiday Inn after beat the crap out of a great John Bond team. I can still the the sign that said **** Bond.

 

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

Lifelong Hattiesburg resident / State grad here. Let me see if I can put something in perspective for the people who are not constantly around Southern Miss fans like I am. Even though we were state fans, Hattiesburg was home so I also attended a lot of USM athletic events throughout my childhood. Some of our best friends are die hard USM fans (yes those do exist).

Most USM fans do have a chip on their shoulder towards State and Ole Miss. They see us as "the little brothers" of the SEC, and lucky to have that SEC crutch to lean on. Most of this comes from jealousy and relates back to the times when they were almost on an even playing field with us (70's-80's). Since that time period, Ole Miss and State have grown along with the remainder of the SEC and USM was left behind. They weren't just left behind, they were passed and dirt was thrown in their face. They know they will never recover and that's why most of the older USM fans will always have a chip on their shoulder for State/UM. USM is just really kind of pathetic in all aspects and they know it.

Trust me, even some of our best friends treated us a little bit differently when State plays in Hattiesburg. They know where our loyalties lie and we show it.

There are MSU fans all over the Pine Belt and the number is growing faster than the population of the Hattiesburg area is growing. I'd say there are more USM fans in Hattiesburg than any other school but MSU is in a close second. Followed by UM then Alabama/LSU. The younger USM fans that I know mostly support State before Ole Miss and don't care as much about hating us. Maybe that's because they were raised in a time when USM has been irrelevant in all sports. They do hate Ole Miss because, who doesn't?

USM will always be way way behind us in everything for the foreseeable future. And living in Hattiesburg, I like it that way.

 

[patdog]

It's got to be tough being a USM fan these days. I don't think there's a school in the country that has been hurt as bad from conference realignment than them. And I really don't see any realistic path for them to get into a better situation. Really, the best thing for them would be for CUSA and Sunbelt conferences to realign along geographic lines to cut travel costs, but I don't see even that happening any time soon.

 

[Goat Holding Inc]

It's got to be tough being a USM fan these days. I don't think there's a school in the country that has been hurt as bad from conference realignment than them. And I really don't see any realistic path for them to get into a better situation. Really, the best thing for them would be for CUSA and Sunbelt conferences to realign along geographic lines to cut travel costs, but I don't see even that happening any time soon.

We love to say it was ALL conference realignment that doomed them, but more than anything, it's that they are #3 in a small state. If the Metro Conference had gotten off the ground, then I really would just consider that a huge amount of luck on USM's part because they had been good at the right time.

We say we got lucky with the SEC, but we also put ourselves in position to be lucky. Ole Miss and MSU supported their schools more than USM, and made the good decision to found and stay in the SEC.

If USM was thriving and in a bigger media market, they would have gotten into a conference eventually. Nobody wants to take a chance on a program, even with good history, that is #3 in a state like Mississippi.

If South MS grows exponentially one day, then that will change.

 

[HardyStreetAlumniClub]

The Metro Conference would have just been another stepping stone to bigger Conferences like Conference USA is.

 

[patdog]

It's kind of like asking which came first, the chicken or the egg. Yeah, conference realignment hurt them, but as you say, the biggest reason they got left out of conference realignment is because of their small fanbase with little means to grow it. Still, it's got to be frustrating for a USM fan to see schools like Memphis and Tulane that they used to beat pretty regularly in football get included in the new AAC while CUSA turned into the Sunbelt 2.0.

 

[wpmusm]

It's very unlikely that the Metro would have survived. Perhaps the Metro leftovers could have gotten together and formed a decent league and we'd be in a better position now. But that's essentially what C-USA was in the mid 90s - leftovers from the Metro and GAC + Houston.

 

[wpmusm]

, the biggest reason they got left out of conference realignment is because of their small fanbase with little means to grow it..

Yeah, but then how did Tulsa, Tulane, and SMU get in? USM always outdrew those schools by a ton and outdrew Memphis and Houston most years.

USM's downfall was being located in a tiny TV market. All we had to offer was a consistently solid football program. If we also had really good basketball (Memphis) or we were an elite private school (Tulane, SMU, Tulsa), we might have gotten in despite our small market. But neither of those are the case.

 

[patdog]

I probably should have said market instead of fanbase. Tulsa, Tulane and SMU all are in bigger markets (even though most in those markets don't care about them). To be honest, I'm still not sure why those schools got in, other than they felt they needed to get to 12 members and had to add somebody. I actually still think USM would have been a better addition than any of those. But I really think they'd probably be better as an 8 or 9 team conference.

 

[wpmusm]

12 gets you to a conference title game. Which means more $$$ on the TV deal. That's why they did it.

 

[patdog]

Yeah, but the winds of change were coming on that. Now any conference can have a championship game. Even back in 2014 when they expanded to 12, they wouldn't have been much worse off dividing a smaller pot 9 ways vs a bigger one 12 ways for a couple of years before they started dividing the bigger pot 9 ways.

 

[wpmusm]

Another argument would be that 12 teams creates more content. More teams = more games = more content for ESPN and other channels. Have to imagine that helps when negotiating a TV contract.

That being said, it looks as if they'll stay at 11 with UConn leaving, unless they can get a school that adds real value (BYU).