Bars kicking people out during the Tornado Warning???
- Thread starter EngDawg
- Start date
So basically he's saying we had no plan for handling an emergency such as a tornado warning.
That's the most disturbing part for me. They've been in business for how long?? And have no formal plan and apparently do not train employees for an emergency? Sounds like they decided they'd just wing it if anything bad every happened.
But I also don't understand why someone would go to a bar you know will be crowded during the weather we had Saturday night, and expect them to provide you + 200 other people a safe shelter if something happens. At some point you have to develop enough common sense to take care of yourself.
That's the most disturbing part for me. They've been in business for how long?? And have no formal plan and apparently do not train employees for an emergency? Sounds like they decided they'd just wing it if anything bad every happened.
But I also don't understand why someone would go to a bar you know will be crowded during the weather we had Saturday night, and expect them to provide you + 200 other people a safe shelter if something happens. At some point you have to develop enough common sense to take care of yourself.
I do know a couple of things.
The worst place in the world to be in a tornado is in a glass fronted room. The experts always say words like "Interior room." They also say "Rooms without windows". If you listen carefully they say, "Leave and go to a safer building." If you can accept my word, they also say, "If you are in a glass walled building, you will be safer going outside and laying in a ditch."
Like everyone else here, I have ridden out storms in our safe place.
One day in DeKalb, MS, I got on the plant PA system and (demanded) all employees come to our central hallway because a tornado was bearing down on the plant. I had the authority to do that and thought it was interesting that our president came there with us, along with the other VPs. I also find it interesting that some (idiot) employees stood on the parking lot and watched the thing cross the highway about 100 yards west of the plant (a possible once in a lifetime mistake).
I have never used a ditch for protection, but I do know that might be my best option if I am in a glass fronted building.
Happy no one was killed. I have lost friends to tornados. No fun to bury a friend and would be less fun to bury my child.
Thanks for reading. The only thing that would have made what they did smart would have been for a bad storm to explode the building and cut up or kill 200 plus kids with the glass from those windows, and I am so very happy everyone survived to raise hell about how they were treated in a bar.
The worst place in the world to be in a tornado is in a glass fronted room. The experts always say words like "Interior room." They also say "Rooms without windows". If you listen carefully they say, "Leave and go to a safer building." If you can accept my word, they also say, "If you are in a glass walled building, you will be safer going outside and laying in a ditch."
Like everyone else here, I have ridden out storms in our safe place.
One day in DeKalb, MS, I got on the plant PA system and (demanded) all employees come to our central hallway because a tornado was bearing down on the plant. I had the authority to do that and thought it was interesting that our president came there with us, along with the other VPs. I also find it interesting that some (idiot) employees stood on the parking lot and watched the thing cross the highway about 100 yards west of the plant (a possible once in a lifetime mistake).
I have never used a ditch for protection, but I do know that might be my best option if I am in a glass fronted building.
Happy no one was killed. I have lost friends to tornados. No fun to bury a friend and would be less fun to bury my child.
Thanks for reading. The only thing that would have made what they did smart would have been for a bad storm to explode the building and cut up or kill 200 plus kids with the glass from those windows, and I am so very happy everyone survived to raise hell about how they were treated in a bar.
More likely they just didn't think about it. I can see that being pretty easy to overlook.
That said, he didn't help himself with his statement. I think if he had come out and said something along the lines of "Look, I 17ed up. I didn't train my staff on how to handle the situation and they made some stupid decisions. In addition to making bad decisions, they treated our customers in a completely unacceptable way and they will be punished, but please understand they were in a stressful situation that again, I did not train them for, which is on me. Luckily, despite my failures, nobody was hurt, and this can be a learning experience so that I and my team will handle this the correct way next time." then throw in whatever special or comps to the people involved or whatever.
I don't think many people would hold it against him that they handled the situation poorly.
I think they'll be ok anyway, but it probably would have helped if he had just explicitly acknowledged that they 17ed up. This is not the normal social media snafu where people are looking to be outraged over some unintentional or even made up slight, and apologizing just makes it worse. This was an actual 17up that they should just apologize for.
Even if they had a plan, do you think a handful of bar workers are going to be able to carry it out? No offense to the employees, but I wouldn't expect them to be able to handle properly handle the situation. I'm not taking up for them. I just think people need to step back and realize who was giving orders. The management was probably concerned with the building getting ransacked and panicked.
They probably told them to leave way before the video was shot, but some refused to do so. I could see that being the case. Or told them they were closing at X time, and some didn't heed the warning. That seems like a much more likely scenario than telling them to get out with a few minutes warning.
Never been to Bin 612 but it appears to me their logic was reasonable but their execution was near criminal.
Instead of attempting to calmly explain what was going on, why the facility needed to be evacuated, and advising where they might find shelter they essentially bounce everyone like they would a belligerent drunk while cursing and screaming and no direction whatsoever as to where to go. I suppose that's what you get when primary occupation of your 'security team' is spotting fake ID's, breaking up fights, and removing the participants from the property. They said several other establishments also closed at the same time but apparently they were the only ones that went off on their patrons like this.
Instead of attempting to calmly explain what was going on, why the facility needed to be evacuated, and advising where they might find shelter they essentially bounce everyone like they would a belligerent drunk while cursing and screaming and no direction whatsoever as to where to go. I suppose that's what you get when primary occupation of your 'security team' is spotting fake ID's, breaking up fights, and removing the participants from the property. They said several other establishments also closed at the same time but apparently they were the only ones that went off on their patrons like this.
I don't consider this "out." Where should they be? in their ****** apartment built of 2x4's or in a commercial building that they should be able to reasonably expect to have passed some sort of structural code review or inspection? I'm choosing the commercial building. as long as they are away from the big windows, they would be safer in the bar than in 90% of the apartments i have seen in Starkville.
I can't imagine being in a Starkville bar and thinking the bartenders had been trained in anything other than serving drinks and opening/closing procedures.
I don't know the details about what happened, so this may be correct. That said, I wonder if an attorney would have advised the owner to not publicly accept blame, as it might expose him/them to lawsuits for, "emotional distress", etc.
We do live in a litigious society. If they admit guilt publicly, lawsuits, even unsuccessful ones, could drain them financially.
We do live in a litigious society. If they admit guilt publicly, lawsuits, even unsuccessful ones, could drain them financially.
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I've never worked in a restaurant or bar before, but don't you normally have someone who's considered a manager working? If you have a plan, you don't have to constantly train people - go over it for 5 minutes when someone's hired and just have a quick annual review for long time employees. A basic plan and one or two people responsible enough to help ensure other employees follow through is all you need to keep things more organized.
I work in dangerous environments sometimes, so maybe my job's trained me to think about safety. But I'd at least expect a business owner in Mississippi with hundreds of customer in a building to have a plan of what to do in case of fire, severe weather, or medical emergencies. Although I'm sure there are a lot that don't.
I work in dangerous environments sometimes, so maybe my job's trained me to think about safety. But I'd at least expect a business owner in Mississippi with hundreds of customer in a building to have a plan of what to do in case of fire, severe weather, or medical emergencies. Although I'm sure there are a lot that don't.
I’m simply relaying what was said by multiple people online in public forums. You are an anonymous message board poster whose account is no more or less credible than the folks I mentioned. All I can take away is that maybe security workers were kicking people out, maybe SPD was, and maybe they both were. And if the SPD wasn’t there directing traffic at a bar with 150+ people standing outside and another 100 inside during a tornado warning, then that is on them too for pure negligence.
And again, it’s 250 people at a patio bar with an all glass building that holds less than 100 folks inside. They could have obviously done a better job of calmly directing people to safety at alternate locations, but forcing everyone back into the Bin’s physical building simply was not an option under any circumstances. What happened was, no pun intended, a perfect storm. A tornado warning on one of the Top 2 night life evenings of the year in Starkville, at the most popular outdoor bar in Starkville. It simply wasn’t going to end well no matter what.
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In the words of Jon Tapper, "SHUT IT DOWWN!!!"
Call me crazy, but I don't think it would be too hard to find a business owner that would like to have the most popular spot near campus.
Call me crazy, but I don't think it would be too hard to find a business owner that would like to have the most popular spot near campus.
I agree. But just wanted to tell you that I dig your name, avatar and what you're about! Too few of us out here
Next year SBW can be sponsored by Survivor. Maybe have it in during a cold February weekend when there is a chance of sleet. Strip all the students naked and make them run home. Have the PD spray them with water while they run through the streets. How dare these children try and have a good time during the most happening weekend of the Spring!!!
That's my issue as well. I thought all businesses and restaurants had to have an emergency plan. Especially since you knew all week that there was a chance for inclement weather on Saturday. That would have been a good time make sure your employees know what to do.
As someone that owns a small business, it is much easier to just apologize. Whether you think you are wrong or not. Tends to make everything easier in dealing with the public. It sounds like the business had no emergency management plan in place. That is an issue no matter how you feel about it, had there been one in place then this whole situation could have been avoided.
It also tells you something that the owner just didn’t apologize. He felt the need to offer justification and explanation. That is not what the people offended in this situation want to hear. They want an apology and an assurance that steps have been taken to prevent this in the future. This was not the time for his thoughts or justifications. It was time to just humble up and say we made a mistake.
On a personal level, in my years at state I never went to the bin because the service was terrible and I never liked the whole scene. They should not be driven out of business over one stupid mistake. Every business, like every person, makes mistakes. The question is not was a mistake made in this situation, the question should be what will we learn from it and what positive changes will be made to learn from this mistake. That being said, it is unfair for all the people trying to defend the owner and the restaurant not to admit they messed up here. It does not show weakness or stupidity to admit a mistake was made. It takes accountability for what happened and makes it clear this situation will not be repeated.
Will leave this with a quote “attitude reflects leadership”. The attitude shown towards these patrons of the restaurant might also give you a clue in to how the owner feels about his customers. Maybe I am way off base on that, but the attitude of the employees towards the customers, the fact that no plan was place, and the fact that the owner put out a huge statement missing the words I am sorry are all clues in this case. Taken separately one of these things might not be a big deal, when added to together these facts show a pattern of behavior.
It also tells you something that the owner just didn’t apologize. He felt the need to offer justification and explanation. That is not what the people offended in this situation want to hear. They want an apology and an assurance that steps have been taken to prevent this in the future. This was not the time for his thoughts or justifications. It was time to just humble up and say we made a mistake.
On a personal level, in my years at state I never went to the bin because the service was terrible and I never liked the whole scene. They should not be driven out of business over one stupid mistake. Every business, like every person, makes mistakes. The question is not was a mistake made in this situation, the question should be what will we learn from it and what positive changes will be made to learn from this mistake. That being said, it is unfair for all the people trying to defend the owner and the restaurant not to admit they messed up here. It does not show weakness or stupidity to admit a mistake was made. It takes accountability for what happened and makes it clear this situation will not be repeated.
Will leave this with a quote “attitude reflects leadership”. The attitude shown towards these patrons of the restaurant might also give you a clue in to how the owner feels about his customers. Maybe I am way off base on that, but the attitude of the employees towards the customers, the fact that no plan was place, and the fact that the owner put out a huge statement missing the words I am sorry are all clues in this case. Taken separately one of these things might not be a big deal, when added to together these facts show a pattern of behavior.
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You are right in it being a perfect storm. Honestly people who went to the bar that night accepted some level of responsibility themselves. I just know our police department, and they are not the enemy- they are well trained and don't generally do stupid stuff. For the record SPD is one of the best equipped, trained, and thought of units in the state.
As I write this, SPD issues a statement on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/starkvillepd/
"The Starkville Police Department did not initiate an evacuation of Bin 612, 612 University Drive, or any other business during this time."
As I write this, SPD issues a statement on Facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/starkvillepd/
"The Starkville Police Department did not initiate an evacuation of Bin 612, 612 University Drive, or any other business during this time."
sending a bunch of people out in the open is still not a smart option. being indoors is still better than being sent out into the night while the weather is beating down with the threat of tornadoes in the area.
years ago i was on campus and they wouldn't let me leave the building with the tornado threat in the area.
That whole area really doesn't have much room in their restaurants. Their is a lot of standing room outside. Too me, with the impending threat of weather, they could have done some precautionary measures to help prevent people from being out there at their establishment.
Students could have also done their part and stayed in. Watching the weather from that morning and all the news that is available through social media. most of the students should have known of the weather threat. Stay home for a night. I know that's hard to do on super bulldog weekend, but I knew better when I was in college to pay attention to the weather and stay in if it was going to get bad.
So, both parties are somewhat to blame, but still the establishment should have known better to send people out in the storms if there was a tornado threat close by.
years ago i was on campus and they wouldn't let me leave the building with the tornado threat in the area.
That whole area really doesn't have much room in their restaurants. Their is a lot of standing room outside. Too me, with the impending threat of weather, they could have done some precautionary measures to help prevent people from being out there at their establishment.
Students could have also done their part and stayed in. Watching the weather from that morning and all the news that is available through social media. most of the students should have known of the weather threat. Stay home for a night. I know that's hard to do on super bulldog weekend, but I knew better when I was in college to pay attention to the weather and stay in if it was going to get bad.
So, both parties are somewhat to blame, but still the establishment should have known better to send people out in the storms if there was a tornado threat close by.
Would be interested in hearing from an attorney. As I posted earlier, I do wonder if the thought was to avoid admitting guilt due to the possibility of getting sued for, "emotional distress". I've got to believe any public admission of this type by the owners could be used as an, "admission of guilt" in a court-of-law.
According to social media, JT Ginn was going to have his arm amputated about a week ago.
I think earning back the goodwill of your customers far outweighs any remote, frivoous suit chances. Plus if you are genuine no one is going to sue you
having said that this still could have been wrotten much better and not been exhibit a in court. Just sloppy PR work
having said that this still could have been wrotten much better and not been exhibit a in court. Just sloppy PR work
Yep, lack of ownership for one's actions is a constant theme these days.
Never take responsibility, always divert.
Never take responsibility, always divert.
I like the other video about 20 minutes before this when the BIN employees were asking people to cash out and get somewhere safe. Fast forward 10 minutes later and people are not heeding the message.
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