Fine, I'll say it:

[CochiseCowbell]

SEC's version of Ron Kulpa or Angel Hernandez COULD have cost us the sweep.

Will it matter in the long run? Probably not.

Our Fielding leaves much to be desired & our batting can be way too aggressive & often starts too late. Plus, we're racking up LOB.

Was it the technically correct call? Probably.

If the runners were still dancing off bases or if they took off when Plumlee made his bonehead decision, I'd understand the opposing team seizing the opportunity of our mental lapse. Yet, neither of those things happened.

Blue took it upon himself to affect the outcome of the game.

There's a famous play in an NFL Playoff game between the Colts & my Broncos. Marvin Harrison catches a ball over the middle & falls down between 3 Denver DB's. They're talking to each other about who should've covered him. No one touches him. He gets up & scores a TD. What that ump did is the equivalent of if Harrison thought he was down as well & the ref went over & told him to get up a run in, while he inhibited the others from having even a chance to chase him.

I know, it's apples & persimmons. But, he was the ONLY person in the park, along with all those watching on TV, that noticed it. Had, UT capatilized & Lemonis argued, but the call stood; that would be understandable. But, that didn't happen.

It was just one guy, mad that he didn't get the ball perhaps or that protocol or unwritten rules were broken, that decided on his own to give 2 runs.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist or think the SEC officials are out to get us. I just think Blue got his panties in a wad over not getting the ball & affected the game.

I'm all ears to hearing a better explanation. I'm open for my opinion to be wrong.

 

[Mayor of Little London]

SEC's version of Ron Kulpa or Angel Hernandez COULD have cost us the sweep.

Will it matter in the long run? Probably not.

Our Fielding leaves much to be desired & our batting can be way too aggressive & often starts too late. Plus, we're racking up LOB.

Was it the technically correct call? Probably.

If the runners were still dancing off bases or if they took off when Plumlee made his bonehead decision, I'd understand the opposing team seizing the opportunity of our mental lapse. Yet, neither of those things happened.

Blue took it upon himself to affect the outcome of the game.

There's a famous play in an NFL Playoff game between the Colts & my Broncos. Marvin Harrison catches a ball over the middle & falls down between 3 Denver DB's. They're talking to each other about who should've covered him. No one touches him. He gets up & scores a TD. What that ump did is the equivalent of if Harrison thought he was down as well & the ref went over & told him to get up a run in, while he inhibited the others from having even a chance to chase him.

I know, it's apples & persimmons. But, he was the ONLY person in the park, along with all those watching on TV, that noticed it. Had, UT capatilized & Lemonis argued, but the call stood; that would be understandable. But, that didn't happen.

It was just one guy, mad that he didn't get the ball perhaps or that protocol or unwritten rules were broken, that decided on his own to give 2 runs.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist or think the SEC officials are out to get us. I just think Blue got his panties in a wad over not getting the ball & affected the game.

I'm all ears to hearing a better explanation. I'm open for my opinion to be wrong.

Fine, I’ll just have to agree with you..

 

[bigiron.sixpack]

I think he was having a "Respect my AuthorUHTIE!" moment.

 

[was21]

What's remarkable in your post is State infielding...after reading it decided it was enough to depress me because it's the truth and could be a major season disaster if not corrected...didn't read the rest because that was enough. Lack of hitting has to do with individual slumps with this group, defense is systemic

 

[She Mate Me]

What's remarkable in your post is State infielding...after reading it decided it was enough to depress me because it's the truth and could be a major season disaster if not corrected...didn't read the rest because that was enough. Lack of hitting has to do with individual slumps with this group, defense is systemic

I'm with you in being worried about our defense, but we also got out of some really tough spots today by playing some solid infield D. It is what it is.

 

[LovemesomeCroom]

Foscue at second and Gilbert at third is an improvement at the plate and

in the field.

 

[bulldogcountry1]

It was an emotional decision. There's no doubt about it.

 

[jakldawg]

If he wasn't an SEC umpire, he would have spent the weekend writing tickets for going 46 in a 45 zone.

 

[maroonmania]

It was an emotional decision. There's no doubt about it.

SEC has the worst officiating in the country in every sport. No reason to think baseball would be any different. I quit watching or keeping up with yesterday's game after that umpiring decision because it totally tarnished the outcome of the game. Who knows, TN may have won anyway or may not have won. We will never know because the ump stepped in and destroyed the fair competition of the game within the white lines. The ball toss had ZERO effect on anything and the TN baserunners were totally shocked when they were instructed to circle the bases.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

SEC has the worst officiating in the country in every sport. No reason to think baseball would be any different. I quit watching or keeping up with yesterday's game after that umpiring decision because it totally tarnished the outcome of the game. Who knows, TN may have won anyway or may not have won. We will never know because the ump stepped in and destroyed the fair competition of the game within the white lines. The ball toss had ZERO effect on anything and the TN baserunners were totally shocked when they were instructed to circle the bases.

This is a great point. Regardless of the sport, SEC officials/referees are often pitiful and or insert themselves in the game just to make sure we all see them.

You would think that having the greatest conference would equal having the greatest officiating. We have way too many who are known by name for bad things rather than calling a good game.

Back when I still followed MLB you had umpires with respect and reputations for the quality of their work in the game.

The conference should have the officials graded by the coaches and AD’s through the season and have earn their place rather than just get the continuous passing mark.

 

[Dawgcap]

Sorry but such a ******** excuse. First off Plumlee said the ball was cut. He asked for time. The problem is he caught and in a smooth motion threw the ball to our dugout. Now you can complain about the rules but at no point in this can Plumlee say the ball was cut unless he knew it before the pitch. We had a player unhappy about something and he broke protocol. It’s ******** to blame officials because we had a player that was trying to make a point

 

[Dawgcap]

Downvote away but I will say it is sad to blame a umpire. That **** is on Plumlee. He was either pissed or trying to make a point and he cost us. Not mad at him in the least but to blame an official over a bad decision by a player is ridiculous. The funny thing is some say he should of given a warning but guess what toss back to the catcher on a slow roll. What Plumlee did was wrong and he got what he deserved.
Lastly what were your views if the roles were reversed.

 

[patdog]

I don't know what the hell you people expected the umpire to do. Our pitcher threw a live ball into the dugout. It's pretty cut and dried at that point. Runners get the next base plus one.

 

[Diggin Out Yo Wife]

I don't know what the hell you people expected the umpire to do. Our pitcher threw a live ball into the dugout. It's pretty cut and dried at that point. Runners get the next base plus one.

this guy did not watch the game

 

[blacklistedbully]

I'd expect the ump to consider the spirit of the rule, rather than allow a call of that magnitude on a technicality change an outcome. Umps can throw players and/or coaches out of a game for arguing balls & strikes or calls. They rarely do so on the first offense, even though the rules say they can.

 

[patdog]

Umpires aren't paid to interpret what you think is the "spirit of the rule," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Their job is to call the game according to the rules, which he did. Everyone bitching about this would be bitching just as much, if not even more, if the roles were reversed.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I don't know what the hell you people expected the umpire to do.

You clearly didn't read the entirety of my post. Technically it was the right call.

WHY did he take it upon himself to do that? He injected himself into the game.

 

[patdog]

If it was the right call (it was), why are you bitching about it? This is not a situation where it's a grey area where the umpire can use judgment. A player threw a live ball into the dugout. The call was automatic at that point.

 

[JoMo MoJo]

I believe the point here is that you hardly ever see it called and usually a warning is issued when an ump thinks the players aren’t paying attention to him. It’s very odd to go straight to the most severe penalty. Unless the ump Is a punk-*** *****.

 

[blacklistedbully]

And peace officers aren't paid to ever let traffic violations go without ticketing...but they do. Spirit of the rule is easy. It's where you, as an official, consider the purpose of the rule, then use common sense in the application. The rule about awarding bases on a throw of a live ball out of the field of play is there for obvious reasons. I'm certain the rule was never meant to apply to a pitcher throwing the ball into his own dugout when it is apparent to everyone the play has ended, and the throw into the dugout is an obvious attempt to get a new ball, with ZERO bearing on fair play.

Rules are there with a goal that both teams get as fair a shake as is humanly possible. They are also sometimes put in there to keep a game manageable and in some cases to protect officiating crews. They are never put in there to be used as a, "gotcha" by an egotistical or overzealous ump. Umps use common sense often, including allowing players and coaches to, "push the limit" before giving a warning and/or tossing the player/coach. They do it all the time when they allow coaches to "visit" a pitcher in an obvious attempt to buy time for relief pitchers to warm up, including waiting a couple minutes before then slowly walking to the mound to let them know they need to wrap it up.

Spirit of the rule and common sense.

 

[patdog]

I’ve seen it called many times. Told a friend about the play today & as soon as I said the umpire didn’t hear him call time & he threw the ball into the dugout, he immediately said the runners got 2 bases didn’t they.

 

[JoMo MoJo]

Care to elaborate? The only time I saw a similar scenario mentioned was when the Clemson player threw a ball that he though was foul into the crowd

 

[CochiseCowbell]

As I've stated numerous times, in this thread & others, I'm not bitching. I'm finding fault with an overzealous ump who had his ego hurt that affected the outcome.

patdog, you're a level headed poster. I am not always. But, I'm not giving an inch of ****** turf on this one. I won't reiterate what I've already stated. There were 3 to 4 different scenarios I'd accept. NONE of them occurred.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

If it was the right call (it was), why are you bitching about it? This is not a situation where it's a grey area where the umpire can use judgment. A player threw a live ball into the dugout. The call was automatic at that point.

Very very few umpires would have made that call. He's the only one I have ever seen make it and I've seen pitchers do that exact thing multiple times.

 

[kired]

You wouldn’t see it called very often because 99.9% of the time players wait for the ump to grant time out. I’ve seen similar happen in high school, so stuff like this does get called. What if it wasn’t called but UT coach had noticed it and came out to argue? Would it have been ok to grant two bases then? Are we only saying it’s BS because the other team didn’t notice?

Seems to me there are a lot of people here that think time is automatically called when a play is over.

ETA: part of my point about seeing it happen in HS is that a college umpire probably calls games at other levels too where he sees this stuff more often. I do think he’d have been better off letting it slide, but it’s totally up to him.

 

[HumpDawgy]

Always throw the ball back to the catcher and have the ump switch out the ball. This should be a no brainer. Plumlee cost us that game. Throwing the ball in the dugout is never a good thing. Don't do it.

 

[thekimmer]

Amen, amen and amen...

And peace officers aren't paid to ever let traffic violations go without ticketing...but they do. Spirit of the rule is easy. It's where you, as an official, consider the purpose of the rule, then use common sense in the application. The rule about awarding bases on a throw of a live ball out of the field of play is there for obvious reasons. I'm certain the rule was never meant to apply to a pitcher throwing the ball into his own dugout when it is apparent to everyone the play has ended, and the throw into the dugout is an obvious attempt to get a new ball, with ZERO bearing on fair play.

Rules are there with a goal that both teams get as fair a shake as is humanly possible. They are also sometimes put in there to keep a game manageable and in some cases to protect officiating crews. They are never put in there to be used as a, "gotcha" by an egotistical or overzealous ump. Umps use common sense often, including allowing players and coaches to, "push the limit" before giving a warning and/or tossing the player/coach. They do it all the time when they allow coaches to "visit" a pitcher in an obvious attempt to buy time for relief pitchers to warm up, including waiting a couple minutes before then slowly walking to the mound to let them know they need to wrap it up.

Spirit of the rule and common sense.

The rule the umpire invoked is intended to disposition live balls that become unplayable during active play. While technically correct the spirit of the rule was not served because active play was obviously over with runners standing passively on their respective bases with bat girls on the field retrieving equipment. Again the call was correct but it wasn't the right call and it was made 100X worse by the fact that an umpire made a call like that and it made the difference in the game.

Reminds me of a story told about a very well known MS HS coach who after a hit or a walk, I forget which, immediately jumped up and briskly headed to the mound to make a pitching change. There was a runner on third. According to the ump nobody asked for time out and as the coach approached the mound the pitcher tossed the ball to him. The third base coach seeing that time had not been called send the runner home with the coach standing there holding the live baseball in his hand and his mouth no doubt open on the mound. Run scored. Coach JB was not amused.

 

[Philly Dawg]

This is simply not true. Nobody would have noticed or said a word of a UT player had done this. Few are even aware of the rule. Umpires apply the spirit of the rule all the time which is why this unnecessarily punitive rule is almost never called.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Not meaning to break the spirit of the law is no more an excuse as ignorance of the law.

We gave the umpire a chance to display his authoritative nature.

And our coaches are just as much to blame as Plumlee.

Damn, Cohen.

 

[maroonmania]

The rule the umpire invoked is intended to disposition live balls that become unplayable during active play.

Thank you, exactly. There obviously has to be a rule to give interpretation during an ACTIVE play where a ball is thrown out of the field of play. That is not what happened here. The play was over once the ball went back to the pitcher and the baserunners were stationary on the bases. After that we get into a gray area where its whether the ump decided that timeout had been technically granted on the field. Per the MSU story writeup time had been asked for (don't know why they would have written that if untrue). Now, no doubt that Plumlee should not have given the ump a chance to make the ruling he did without knowing for sure TO had been granted but Plumlee has already been known to make some questionable decisions which is the reason he wasn't on the team last year. Applying the rule in the manner the ump did I still maintain tarnished the competitive integrity of the game. I personally am not looking for baseball to turn into golf where some unreasonable technicality costs you a stroke you never took and changes the outcome of the game. And to be honest, if the situation happened in reverse, yes, I would take the win but I wouldn't feel like we had earned it but rather it had been given to us.

 

[thekimmer]

Here is a couple of questions I have for this ump and everybody else who believe this was the right call. Does this ump make sure every time that base coaches don't take hitting pads or otherwise touch runners one millisecond before time is granted? Why wasn't play declared dead when a non-player (bat girl) came onto the playing surface bat girl game out onto the field during a live ball situation?

 

[philduckworth]

Umpires aren't paid to interpret what you think is the "spirit of the rule," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Their job is to call the game according to the rules, which he did. Everyone bitching about this would be bitching just as much, if not even more, if the roles were reversed.

Honestly, I don't think anyone would have noticed. I've never seen that before.

Also, bad luck that Skelton was adjusting his Leg Guards.

 

[tired]

I coached baseball for 17 years. We threw bad balls toward/into the dugout every game as did the other team, and I've never seen that called. I didn't see the game, but it sounds like common sense was not applied on the umpires part. That rule is really for when a player makes a bad throw, while trying to make a play, not for a pitcher calling for a new ball. I'd have to see the play to really determine, but seems like an overzealous, respect my authority type of ump.

 

[thekimmer]

Umpires aren't paid to interpret what you think is the "spirit of the rule," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Their job is to call the game according to the rules, which he did. Everyone bitching about this would be bitching just as much, if not even more, if the roles were reversed.

Uh, actually yes they are. Umpires and officials in pretty much every sport have a great deal of discretion in enforcing rules and they exercise this discretion all the time. To me this was clearly a time when such discretion was indicated.

 

[maroonmania]

I coached baseball for 17 years. We threw bad balls toward/into the dugout every game as did the other team, and I've never seen that called. I didn't see the game, but it sounds like common sense was not applied on the umpires part. That rule is really for when a player makes a bad throw, while trying to make a play, not for a pitcher calling for a new ball. I'd have to see the play to really determine, but seems like an overzealous, respect my authority type of ump.

That is the point. The ump really took it upon himself to apply a rule in a way that it was not intended. To take that situation and make it a 2 base error to score 2 runs is comparable to giving the death penalty to someone who drove 56 in a 55 mph speed zone.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I'd have to see the play to really determine, but seems like an overzealous, respect my authority type of ump.

Don't know how to embed tweets. Strat posted it in another thread.

https://twitter.com/SECbaseball/status/1114710592030425090


https://forums.sixpackspeak.com/sho...hat-Plumlee-called-time&p=1609126#post1609126

 

[philduckworth]

I coached baseball for 17 years. We threw bad balls toward/into the dugout every game as did the other team, and I've never seen that called. I didn't see the game, but it sounds like common sense was not applied on the umpires part. That rule is really for when a player makes a bad throw, while trying to make a play, not for a pitcher calling for a new ball. I'd have to see the play to really determine, but seems like an overzealous, respect my authority type of ump.

That's exactly right. You hope to not have an 1000 page rule book b/c you hope that the umps can apply some semblance of common sense and game situation to the game. But apparently everything has to be spelled out. Jim Ellis said he's never seen it called in all of his years of radio. Neither had Cohen or Lemo. But yes, technically the ump can sit back and say he made the correct call.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Umpires aren't paid to interpret what you think is the "spirit of the rule," whatever the hell that's supposed to be. Their job is to call the game according to the rules, which he did. Everyone bitching about this would be bitching just as much, if not even more, if the roles were reversed.

Dead Ball—Play Suspended
SECTION 5. Time shall be called by the umpire and play is suspended when:
e. A player or coach requests time for a substitution, a legal conference with the
pitcher, for equipment changes or for similar cause;

This is the rule. So let's apply your logic. Ump did not follow the rule. If he did, he would have ruled a dead-ball/play suspended decision that made the toss into the dugout inconsequential.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Sorry but such a ******** excuse. First off Plumlee said the ball was cut. He asked for time. The problem is he caught and in a smooth motion threw the ball to our dugout. Now you can complain about the rules but at no point in this can Plumlee say the ball was cut unless he knew it before the pitch. We had a player unhappy about something and he broke protocol. It’s ******** to blame officials because we had a player that was trying to make a point

Plumlee fielded the hit and threw to first. It is entirely possible, and even likely he saw or felt the scuff then.