So I went back and watched the play

[Shadow34]

As soon as The covering second baseman (at first from the bunt) throws the ball to Plumlee, he rolls it to the dugout. Like the instant it hit his glove. I do NOT see anyone calling for time. Then again the Tennessee broadcast is extremely ******. But what the 17?! I mean who throws a ball to the dugout the second u get it back on the mound??! If u want a new one, why not do what everyone does and throw it to your catcher. Ok dead horse you have been beaten, but I didn’t realize how instantly he throws it to the dugout. Might be the lamest way to lose a game in any sport. Check that, no might, it is the lamest.


ETA: Just saw the above post. Apologies from Berlin.

 

[8dog]

The most fascinating thing to me is i dont remmeber a pitcher ever trashing a ball by just chunking it into the dugout. Usually you toss it to the ump. But of course we did it in that very moment.

 

[LovemesomeCroom]

Well, if the broadcast wasn’t lousy, you could probably see him mouth time right before the throw.

It’s hard to believe the official university press release would say he called time, if he didn’t. And, if he didn’t call time, why would Plumlee argue?

 

[JoMo MoJo]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

Jesus Christ.

 

[Dawg_4_lifes]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

Wow. That escalated quickly>

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

It must be a contest this weekend to see who can say the most outrageous thing.

 

[Len2003]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

It wouldn't have changed the outcome though. It would have just made some fans feel better.

 

[LandArchDawg]

Plumlee acted like he was either pissed about something or wanted to make a statement about getting the out. Either way, he wasn't thinking clearly about what he was doing.

 

[benatmsu]

Oof.

Just here for the daily Jomo Mojo **** take post*

88

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

View attachment 12625

 

[RocketDawg]

Well, if the broadcast wasn’t lousy, you could probably see him mouth time right before the throw.

It’s hard to believe the official university press release would say he called time, if he didn’t. And, if he didn’t call time, why would Plumlee argue?

Is the umpire obligated to grant a timeout when asked for?

 

[bddawg]

Is the umpire obligated to grant a timeout when asked for?

No. But he didn't wait to get it granted. Anyone blaming this on anyone other than plumlee is reaching. The umps had no choice. What were hey supposed to do? Change the rule? Yes odd. But we screwed it up.

 

[Shamoan]

The ump definitely had a choice. Non-players were already in the field of play and a player asked for time....it was a breach of etiquette to not grant it given the circumstances, but plum also made a mistake by what could be interpreted as showing up the ump by not waiting on the answer

 

[patdog]

Yeah, the umpire did have a choice. Either do his damn job or don't do it. He made the right choice.

 

[LawDawg97]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

At some point Lemonis is going to have to figure this coaching thing out or else he’s going to end up like you, at home on your phone telling him how to be a coach? You’re such an assclown

 

[blacklistedbully]

By that logic I suppose you'd advocate they toss every player and every coach that ever argues a call, ball or strike. I mean, isn't that against the rules? Wouldn't that mean not doing so would equal the ump "not doing his damn job"?

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

Getting a timeout is not automatic. You can ask the ump a hundred times, but until they grant it, the play is on. Just like in the batters box you can ask for time and step out, but if he does not grant it you 17'd up.

It was a boneheaded pitcher mistake.

 

[campshelbydog842003]

Yeah, the umpire did have a choice. Either do his damn job or don't do it. He made the right choice.

No. He made a “look at me I am in charge and more important than the game” call. I have seen that done hundreds of times by pitchers and it never gets called. To change the outcome of a game on that is insane.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I've never seen a pitcher roll the ball to the dugout during a game. I looked at my wife and said, "What was that?" Next thing we knew UT had 2 runs. Weirdest thing I have seen our baseball team do ever.

 

[AlCoDog]

Why was more than one base awarded? That is what i didn’t understand.

 

[Nama Carl]

It must be a contest this weekend to see who can say the most outrageous thing.

I vote for Requiem for a Dawg, using the Lord's name in vain.

 

[olblue.sixpack]

http://www.umpirebible.com/index.php/rules-base-running/awarding-bases#two

 

[AlCoDog]

Well there it is. Thanks, i guess.

 

[deadheaddawg]

If I was the coach you definitely would have had to eject me to get me out of that umps face. At some point Lemonis is going to have to stop being a cuck and fight for his players.

lol.

That's probably why you are at home watching the games and he is an actual coach.

I rather not have a coach that loses his cool and gets tossed over the correct call. It may have been ticky tack, but it was correct. He needed to turn his attention back to the game and focus on it.

 

[Shamoan]

agreed. this was a flex move by the ump. totally unnecessary especially given the circumstances. was he within the rules....i guess, but he should have granted time as plum shouldnt have assumed it would be granted when asked for.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I would never in a million years suggest I know half-as-much about baseball as you do, but I think you might be off just a little on this one. Batters must request time, and it is absolutely at the ump's discretion whether or not to grant it. THat's in the rules. But the rule regarding a player asking for time due to an equipment change (in this case a ball) is not at the ump's discretion. The rule specifically says time SHALL be granted WHEN a player requests it. The only reason I can see for it not being automatic is if the play is still clearly in progress. Once it got into Plumlee's glove, with runners not attempting to advance, bat girl entering the field, field ump turning his back and returning to his position, the play was no longer being contested, thus Plumlee's request for time to exchange the ball subject to the specific rule...not the ump's decision as to whether he should honor it or when it should be honored. The rule says it is to be honored when it is requested.

Was it foolish to not wait? Of course, because it's better safe-than-sorry, and we all know there are umpires in the game who love attention too much. In any case, a good ump should have known better than to penalize a team so harshly when everybody in the ballpark except him had accepted the play was over. It's pure ego for an umpire to decide he's going to do that rather than acknowledge the play was over, whether he's signaled it or not. All the steps required for calling time had been completed by everyone except the ump...and he had no good reason for not considering it effectively done the moment the ball was returned to Plumlee and he asked for time.

 

[Ranchdawg]

He should have been out there jumping on Plumlee for such a stupid move. Why didn't Plumlee wait until the bat girl was out of the way and ask for another baseball????

 

[maroonmania]

Getting a timeout is not automatic. You can ask the ump a hundred times, but until they grant it, the play is on. Just like in the batters box you can ask for time and step out, but if he does not grant it you 17'd up.

It was a boneheaded pitcher mistake.

The difference is, if a batter is in the batter's box, and the pitcher has the ball then you are automatically in live play. The timeout rule and the 2 base error rule is absolutely not intended for an ump to apply AFTER a play is concluded and you are in a dead ball situation. There is NEVER a reason for an umpire not to liberally grant a timeout when the play is dead and the pitcher wants a new ball, NEVER. The umpire applied a rule totally out of context, that is just all there is to it in my book but its over and done with and nothing will change it. Yes, Plumlee will learn the lesson that with idiotic umpires you can never take anything for granted, but that's about all that will come of it.

 

[Maroonthirteen]

I don’t know how anyone is drawing the conclusion the play was dead. Maybe in Tball when the Pitcher gets the ball..... but not sec baseball.

 

[maroonmania]

I don’t know how anyone is drawing the conclusion the play was dead. Maybe in Tball when the Pitcher gets the ball..... but not sec baseball.

Geez, baserunners stationary on their bases, no batter in the batter's box, batgirl out on the field, ball returned to the pitcher. By any reasonable person's definition the 'active' play started by the sac bunt was over. Just no legitimate reason not to allow timeout there in that situation.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Well said.

 

[Drebin]

Geez, baserunners stationary on their bases, no batter in the batter's box, batgirl out on the field, ball returned to the pitcher. By any reasonable person's definition the 'active' play started by the sac bunt was over. Just no legitimate reason not to allow timeout there in that situation.

Answer this question: Could the baserunners have taken off at their discretion? Yes, you say? Well, then. It wasn't a "dead" play. The only dead ball situation is if a pitch is fouled off, or goes out of play, or if time is granted. In all cases, it goes back to a live situation, not when the next pitch is thrown, but when the umpire gives the go ahead.

If the umpire didn't grant time, it was a live situation, no matter where the batter was, where the batgirl was, or where the ball was.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I think this goes more to whether time should have been granted given the circumstances. Ump told Lemonis he did not hear Plumlee ask for it. Video and witnesses strongly suggest Plumlee did ask for it to exchange the ball, however quickly, and in that case time is required to be granted upon the asking.

If the ump truly did not hear the request then the call was wrong because he did not hear and grant the time out. It is also true that Plumlee should not have assumed it was heard and appropriately called. Retrospectively both screwed up. I and others are suggesting the ump's decision to award two bases when he did was another mistake because there was no cause to make that call once the bat girl was by the plate to pick up the bat.

 

[blacklistedbully]

According to Rule 6.5(e) he is when a player requests it in order to make an equipment change...in this case, the baseball. In other cases it is up to the ump's discretion.

 

[Drebin]

I think this goes more to whether time should have been granted given the circumstances. Ump told Lemonis he did not hear Plumlee ask for it. Video and witnesses strongly suggest Plumlee did ask for it to exchange the ball, however quickly, and in that case time is required to be granted upon the asking.

If the ump truly did not hear the request then the call was wrong because he did not hear and grant the time out. It is also true that Plumlee should not have assumed it was heard and appropriately called. Retrospectively both screwed up. I and others are suggesting the ump's decision to award two bases when he did was another mistake because there was no cause to make that call once the bat girl was by the plate to pick up the bat.

I think the umpire should have granted time if Plumlee called for it. But Plumlee needs to stop, put both hands up and ask for time in a respectful way, acknowledge when it is given, and THEN he can get rid of the ball. He made the mistake of taking for granted that he would automatically get time called. And if you show up an umpire, which in this case qualifies because he just assumed he had time, the umpire is less likely to be accommodating.

And aGAIN, time is not required to be granted. But it is usually granted. It would have been granted here if Plumlee had taken a different approach to requesting it.

Moral of the story: Don't be a dick. As for time the right way and it will usually be granted.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Agree with everything in your post except one thing. Rule 6.5(e) clearly states time shall be granted when it is requested by a player to exchange equipment. So yes, the ump is required to grant it in this situation. Not the same as a batter asking for time between pitches.

 

[Drebin]

Agree with everything in your post except one thing. Rule 5(e) clearly states time shall be granted when it is requested by a player to exchange equipment. So yes, the ump is required to grant it in this situation. Not the same as a batter asking for time between pitches.

Have you ever seen an umpire refuse to give a pitcher a new ball? It happens. Not often, but it does. The definition of a baseball as "equipment" in that rule is arguable at best. The allowance to change equipment is usually with player safety in mind....replacing a cracked bat, or faulty catcher's mask, or a popped lace on a glove, etc. These days pitchers want to change balls if it hits the dirt, and the umpires don't have to grant that.

But I will give you the benefit of the doubt and say ok, he is required to grant time there. How can he do that if he didn't hear it? It's on the pitcher to make sure he has it. Period.

 

[blacklistedbully]

I just watched the play again on replay. This is what I saw:

1. Bunt fielded by Plumlee and thrown to Foscue covering at first. This would be when he noticed the scuff.
2. He sees the out at first, then checks the runners and sees they are holding at 2nd and 3rd after the out at first.
3. He then looks directly at the ump who is standing at the plate and appears to say something, most likely, "Time". This is confirmed by Foscue's mom after the game in a tweet. Foscue is much farther away from Plumlee than is the ump, but hey, Foscue has "young ears". Maybe the ump doesn't hear so well.
4. Plumlee looks back at Foscue so he can get the ball back. He gets the ball back, turns back toward the ump and sees the ump is backing up, behind the box, mask off, both hands hanging down at his side, and in the same motion tosses the ball into the dugout.
5. He points to the ball as it is rolling back, appearing to say something, probably, "That ball is scuffed"
6. He turns back to the ump and holds his glove up expecting to receive a new ball from the ump. At this point ump has yet to make his call and our catcher is right in front of him retrieving the mask he threw off for the bunt. (Why is time not already called to allow for this?) Before ball has even gotten to the dugout, the batgirl is picking up the bat in full view of the ump. Still no time called. (Why again is time still not called? Probably because this ump is deciding he is going to use his power and misuse a rule on a technicality to impact the game/demand the respect he feels he wasn't shown when Plumlee looked for the ball from Foscue rather than waiting for this ump to grant the time he was required to grant)
7. When blue does not give him a new ball Plumlee walks toward our dugout to get a new ball. He is almost all the way to the foul line before the ump walks onto the field, taking a path that intersects with Plumlee...then and only then does he call time and awards the 2 bases. Plumlee turns toward the ump shocked, then has a conversation with the ump (pointing to the plate as he does so), most likely telling the ump he had asked for time and a ball from him earlier when he was at the plate. The ump answers back as he finally hands a ball to Plumlee. He's almost for sure saying either he never heard Plumlee ask for time, or telling Plumlee he had not granted it (Why not? Is he hard of hearing or was he being an *** because he felt, "disrespected" when Plumlee requested it, but didn't wait for an acknowledgment before turning to Foscue to get the ball back?)
8. Lemonis enters the field, pointing to the 3rd base ump, then the home plate ump. Clearly he is responding to home plate ump claiming he never heard the request for time, as he talks to the 3rd base ump, no doubt asking him if he heard it called and could tell his colleague behind the plate. Most likely the 3rd base ump did not hear, which is not surprising, given he was farther away still at his position to monitor the baserunner who had slid into 3rd.

"These are the facts of the case, and they are indisputable." (And yes, the "irony" of Kevin Bacon's character losing the case is not lost on me.)

 

[blacklistedbully]

Also, the baseball is the 1st thing listed in the rules under, "Equipment". Not arguable.