Rebel Rags going to Discovery
- Thread starter Leeshouldveflanked
- Start date
How quickly will the defense attorneys ask to depose every recruit that officially visited Ole Miss as a part of Faith Based Recruiting along with every former member of the football staff? I would start with Shea Patterson & Van Jefferson and along with their dads. Do you think Shea's dad could be a wild card in a deposition? How excited will the Ole Miss administration be to give up the cell phone records for every member of the football staff for a 5-6 year period? I bet Terry Warren has a cell phone also, so his records will be subject to discovery. I wonder if he conversed with maybe Barney on Recruiting Weekends to make arrangements. This will be entertaining and those enlightened arrogant bastards will be cheering as Oxford starts to burn. I predict that a new Guinness World Record for average Sphincter Tightness will be set by the populace of Oxford.
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I think you get the former Starkville High coach under oath. He was a big part of the Rebel Rags lie saying Kobe Jones lied about the merch. All the rebels cheering for depositions should realize that it’s going to go both ways. Just as they are saying our players should be afraid to lie under oath, their allies should be as well. It will be dangerous for them if new allegations result from depositions. Our side’s lawyers can ask about free merch and pay for play from any former player like Pat Patterson or Tobias Singleton to make a case that Leo wasn’t lying.
How many times have we expected them to get the hammer and for them to walk away with a few scratches? I will never hold my breath waiting for those cheating bastards to get what they deserve. It just never happens. TW is doing this because he knows he has plenty of support behind him to protect his crooked ***.
Nothing that comes out of this case is going to affect either MSU or UM at all. Our players have been given immunity from the NCAA for anything they may have gotten from either us or them, and despite what some of their fans would like to think, the NCAA's not going to try to punish us for anything they might say. And UM's already been sanctioned for what happened back then. The NCAA's not going to go back and give them more sanctions, even if something new were to come out of this.
They have like 6 4*s total on campus right now. They’ve missed 3 straight bowl games before the talent level even bottomed out and are probably looking at at least 3 more before they’ve restocked it.
What was written by the ncaa might not have been what we were hoping for, but the reality of the program is that they’ve gotten destroyed.
What was written by the ncaa might not have been what we were hoping for, but the reality of the program is that they’ve gotten destroyed.
I hate this narrative.
They got a slap on the wrist at most. The reason their program is in the gutter is because of their own gross mismanagement, not because of the NCAA.
They went from 2 dozen blue chips to about two. If you think that's because of "mismanagement" and not due to the NCAA, I don't really know what to tell you. Guess Freeze just forgot how to recruit in there.
Warren is only doing this to get more support for his business from Bears...
I would think this wouldn't end well for them if they follow through.
I would think this wouldn't end well for them if they follow through.
Yeah, I do. They delayed the process at least a year longer than they should have. If they'd gotten it all over with sooner, they'd have held on to a lot of the players that transferred out. And of course, they wouldn't have lost their coach either (and despite what a lot of people want to think, is a good coach). They have literally 17ed up their defense and responses to the NCAA in just about every way they possibly could have.
I agree Engie. The actual investigation is what killed Ole Miss. either way you want to slice it their program has been leveled due to the entire process. Not just the sanctions
The ncaa allowed a good portion of their roster to transfer at will with no penalty, but the overall penalties were a damn joke. The biggest punch came from Steve Robertson though. They went from the best coach they have had in 50 years to Matt 17’ing Luke because Rosebowl nailed Hugh’s *** to the wall. Steve ain’t everyone’s cup of tea, but I will always laugh and raise a glass to what he did to them.
Yes, they delayed, delayed, delayed, which kept the cloud over their heads, and they lied, lied, lied, which led to recruits transferring out without penalty. You don't know what to tell me because you don't know what you're talking about (for once). Their scholarship restriction was limited to what they self imposed, and that's about it. They didn't even have to serve the visit restriction penalty. They served a two year bowl ban, for years that they weren't going to be bowl eligible anyway. They hired Matt Luke, and even worse, McGriff and Longo, which was worse to their program than anything the NCAA could have done. This year, they are able to sign more than a full class, with no restrictions whatsoever, which is a high travesty given that these "crippling sanctions" were handed down two years ago.
They got off light. It's not even a debatable point.
We kept Jackie around two years too long. And then we self-imposed a five year probation by hiring Croom. Yes, we mismanaged it.
Yes, they did, because they committed to Ole Miss under false pretenses (lies told to them by Ole Miss about the severity of the investigation). aGAIN, it's their own mismanagement that led to that.
Once again — chicken and egg.
You ever stop to consider that maybe “they got off light” because the ncaa looked at the state of the program and considered that they basically couldn’t hit them any harder without essentially giving a first time offender the death penalty? I mean seriously — they might very well win two games next year. There is nothing to look forward to on the horizon anytime in the near future for them either.
You think where they are isn’t where they were going to be — regardless of how they handled the ncaa? While I agree that they botched it and handled it horribly, I think that’s naive.
The ncaa was always going to put them into this exact spot. Regardless. It was never going to be worse and it was never going to be better. They ended that program for 6-7 years and did as much as they could possibly do without forcing a conversation about outright booting them from the conference.
If Ole Miss had been wiser about who they hired and had a better strategy for how they come out of this, they would be right back to competing for a bowl next year. A better coach with more upside would have netted them better recruiting classes last year and this year, and probably kept some of those transfers around.
"This exact spot" is a full roster of available scholarships, and being able to recruit without restriction. Honest question: Two years and three months after the NCAA hands down a response to maybe the biggest list of infractions in their history, they are back to full power - no restrictions to recruiting visits, no scholarship limits, etc. Do you really think that's right? That their buffoon of an AD hired a buffoon of a head coach is why they are in line to go 2-10 next year. They are teed up to recover quickly if they get the network fired back up and get a better coach in there.
More appropriate penalties would have made their outlook for next year the same for a few years after that, because they would be operating with limited scholarships. That's how penalties are supposed to work - if you do the crime, you gotta do the time. They are in the shape they're in because their coaches suck and the players who were worth a damn transferred out. Most of that was under their control and they fumbled it.
They should've gotten harsher penalties just for the ACT fraud alone, let alone the rest of it. Like I said, not even debatable. It was a gross miscarriage of justice, and has essentially given everyone a license to cheat.
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I'm not sure that isn't optimistic?
First, there was no guarantee that they would have so many transfers.
Second, what if they hadn't panicked before the sanctions were announced?
Sanctions were announced December of 2017. I know they wouldn't have been a desirable job, but they were an SEC job with low expectations and the penalties were known at that point. They could have held off on Luke, made a hire in December of 2017, which probably wouldn't have made a difference for the Feb. 2018 signing class (or may have hurt it), but it would have given them a shot to maybe keep some of the transfers. But regardless, they could be a year into the rebuild right now. They went to the sugar bowl in 2015. Their punishment could have looked like:
2016 - 5-7 (which I'm not sure if the cloud had even hurt them by this point)
2017 - 6-6
2018 - 6-6 (A better coach maybe swings Vandy or USCe)
2019 - Probably still a struggle, but they have New Mexico State, Southeastern Louisiana, California, Vandy, Arky, and Memphis on the schedule.
2020 - This would be two signing classes of the new coach on campus (plus whatever they did in 2018), and probably the bottom if they made a decent hire?
I mean, that would have been a punishment, but if they had not panicked and followed it up with a good hire, they could have in theory been completely recovered in 2021 after bottoming out at 5 or 6 wins for a few years. Pretty good tradeoff.
2016 they
Y’all seem to have forgotten, they have Matt “Golden” Corral as their lead man for the next three years (no way he makes it to his SR year before being a surefire first round pick). He will Foghorn Leghorn up and down the sideline for the next few years looking like the Ultimate Warrior, and lead them through the wilderness to the promised land. And of course they all will follow because he stands up for his teammates....
Agree to disagree. They kept the coaches they kept -- strictly in order to prevent more transfers. There was going to be a mass exodus either way. They minimized the damage there to the absolute greatest extent they possibly could. Still lost 5-7 blue chips.
So, why isn't it business as usual up there? "A roster full of available scholarships"? They are 2-3 years away from being back to 85. And 3/4 of what they've signed in the last two classes plus this one were not and are not SEC players.
Again -- why not business as usual? They are under repeat offenders for 4 more years and change. Under a microscope and they know it. That's why the network hasn't fired back off like before. They've been punished with 3 terrible classes and open transfers on roster. There is zero talent left there. Benito Jones and that's it.
We can go back and forth on that for all eternity. Yes, what was written on paper was weak at the end of this deal. But they were already destroyed by the time penalties were being handed down. What difference does it make if you add another two years to the bowl ban? They aren't bowling there anyway. Sure, I'd love to have seen more initial counter scholly reductions -- but they are hammered there. Count all the open transfers onto that scholarship reduction which had never been done before(only been allowed in previous cases to the classes with no chance to go to a bowl in their remaining career). And some of the questionable early entries into the NFL.
They lose 9 starters on offense. And the defense sucks. They bring back a good running back and a decent freshman WR. They are going 2-10 or 3-9. Next class will suck because everyone knows the staff is gone. Then the next coaching hire will inherit an epic dumpster fire with 4 crappy classes on campus. That person better be a badass -- or they are looking a 7-8 years from the time the investigation became public knowledge to come back from this. Hardly "just a slap on the wrist".
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Luke minimized the transfers. It's at least 80% of the reason that he was retained initially.
You can play the "what if" game all day. But I'll just agree to disagree. They weren't getting anyone worth a damn last year. They reached out to quite a few before circling back to Luke. "An SEC job with low expectations"? We talking OM here? They have the most disproportionately unreasonable expectations of anyone in the conference other than Tennessee.
What's going to happen now is Luke will be lucky to make it thru all of next season. When he's fired at the end, they will hire an "up and comer" from the Sun Belt or similar. That guy better be damn good from day 1. Better recruit his *** off and do some winning. Because if he isn't bowling by year 2, he very well might not get year 3, right or wrong. And he'll have to be very careful on the recruiting trail -- because if they get caught again -- it's over for them.
You can play the "what if" game all day. But I'll just agree to disagree. They weren't getting anyone worth a damn last year. They reached out to quite a few before circling back to Luke. "An SEC job with low expectations"? We talking OM here? They have the most disproportionately unreasonable expectations of anyone in the conference other than Tennessee.
What's going to happen now is Luke will be lucky to make it thru all of next season. When he's fired at the end, they will hire an "up and comer" from the Sun Belt or similar. That guy better be damn good from day 1. Better recruit his *** off and do some winning. Because if he isn't bowling by year 2, he very well might not get year 3, right or wrong. And he'll have to be very careful on the recruiting trail -- because if they get caught again -- it's over for them.
So the NCAA made the players transfer out? The NCAA made the underclassmen declare early? The NCAA made them keep Bjork? The NCAA forced Rosebowl to find the hooker's phone number? The NCAA hired Luke and McGriff?
To be clear, there's no question that the NCAA investigation had a negative impact on their program. But again, they got a slap on the wrist from an actual penalty perspective and that point is not debatable. If you disagree, you are an idiot, plainly put. Clearly you don't disagree, because you've said they were weak, but you are trying to equate the cloud of an investigation to actual penalties handed down, which are two different things. A big reason the cloud hung over the program goes back to their own stupidity. That it's a 7 or 8 year malaise instead of a three year bump in the road is squarely because of Ole Miss and their incompetence in their athletic department. As a State fan, I love it. To the level with which you are arguing over this, you must be in the dumps about it. But they should have seen as many as 8 schollies per year docked for four years if the NCAA's penalty matrix is to be believed.
By the way, they will have very close to 85 schollies next year, if not a full 85.
I see what Engie is saying. At the end of the day the NCAA saw the damage the investigation did to their program and I am not sure that didn’t have an impact on their sanctions. By the time the sanctions were handed down the damage had been more than done
Well it is any program's own mismanagement that leads to an NCAA investigation in the first place. The NCAA did not have to allow players to transfer at will, but they did. They did it more to help the student athlete than to hurt Ole Miss, but it ended up being a penalty none the less. I am right at the top of the list of people who thinks that the total sanctions are ******** though. If it were not for Rosebowl, they would be operating with a competent head coach and have a decent amount of talent on their roster.
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This is what I’m saying. Thanks for simplifying. I’m saying the end result would have been the same regardless of how OM handled things. If they do everything that drebin says and they weather the storm thru the investigation in a good place, they get hammered multiples harder in the actual sanctions. The ncaa was going to get them for 5-7 years regardless. It was never going to be a 20 year deal regardless of how much we wanted it to be. The Ole Miss side was all a dog and pony show for nothing. To end up in the same place.
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