How is USM still in FBS?

[bruiser.sixpack]

There are 14 FCS schools with a bigger budget. USM ranks 126 in budget.

MSU has the highest % gap between budget and expenses of teams not in the Top 10 budgets.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

Southern may be the biggest victim of conference realignment

There are 14 FCS schools with a bigger budget. USM ranks 126 in budget.

MSU has the highest % gap between budget and expenses of teams not in the Top 10 budgets.

When Louisville, Memphis, Tulane, TCU, ECU, Cincy, etc left them stuck in CUSA with teams spread far and wide, they we’re screwed.

I think they would be better served by joining Sun Belt or forming a new SEC, Jr type conference (take best of cusa and sunbelt in sec footprint). But USM is tough spot to be leader on this because they don’t bring numbers of viewers and or fan base.

Also, in addition to conference realignment, programs like USA, Troy, UCF, USF, etc taking off cut into their recruiting base.

 

[PineGroveBully]

I remember it not being that long ago (99ish) when all 3 (MSU, uM, USM) were ranked. At least USM has an excuse these days.

 

[CGold4]

Hattiesburg isn’t quite the town it used to be

 

[Todd4State]

When Louisville, Memphis, Tulane, TCU, ECU, Cincy, etc left them stuck in CUSA with teams spread far and wide, they we’re screwed.

I think they would be better served by joining Sun Belt or forming a new SEC, Jr type conference (take best of cusa and sunbelt in sec footprint). But USM is tough spot to be leader on this because they don’t bring numbers of viewers and or fan base.

Also, in addition to conference realignment, programs like USA, Troy, UCF, USF, etc taking off cut into their recruiting base.

At this point there really isn't much of a difference between C-USA and the Sun Belt. I know some will disagree but resuming playing them in football and us beating the tar out of them also had a big effect as well. Yes, financially it's not a great move to play them in Hattiesburg but hammering them 49-0 or whatever it was in 2014 and then beating them by around 19-21 on the road in 2015 makes it very difficult to argue that MSU is "scared to play" them. That has helped with the in state separation between MSU and USM.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

If it wasn’t for MSU.... USM wouldn’t have an Athletic Department....

 

[dawgoneyall]

I remember it not being that long ago (99ish) when all 3 (MSU, uM, USM) were ranked. At least USM has an excuse these days.

uM has a valid reason to not be ranked.

They were caught cheating.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

From what i have seen, Southern has a uniquely obtuse relationship with it's alumni. Great model for raising capital.

 

[Beretta.sixpack]

I've always wondered if Hattiesburg could hub off Nola market....

They don't have the TV $$$ for that small a market...or make a golden triangle type market between coast and mobile? not sure it would help, but hattiesburg isn't enough tvs to bring money to the table.....MSU and UM alike should be thankful we got in the sec at the beginning

When Louisville, Memphis, Tulane, TCU, ECU, Cincy, etc left them stuck in CUSA with teams spread far and wide, they we’re screwed.

I think they would be better served by joining Sun Belt or forming a new SEC, Jr type conference (take best of cusa and sunbelt in sec footprint). But USM is tough spot to be leader on this because they don’t bring numbers of viewers and or fan base.

Also, in addition to conference realignment, programs like USA, Troy, UCF, USF, etc taking off cut into their recruiting base.

 

[Arthur2478]

How is USM still in FBS?

There are a ton of schools that don't belong in FBS, not just USM. Of the 130 FBS memembers, I'd say about 40+ of them have no business being there. I assume that a day will eventually come when the FBS will split into 2 and those lower schools will form their own playoff system.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

Hattiesburg is a great town.

 

[11thEagleFan]

Yeah I’m gonna disagree with you there. State playing USM is a good thing for USM. There was no negative effect. USM is in the position it’s in for 3 reasons: 1) Conference realignment, 2) Ellis Johnson, 3) poor university leadership. 6-7 years ago fan support was great (by G5 standards). It could be fixed, but it would take a lot of work, and the current admin isn’t up to the task.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

I think they should go FCS, personally. There is no way up for them in the FBS. Even if the State of Mississippi grew by leaps and bounds, MSU and Ole Miss would be the benefactors, not USM. By going to the FCS, you can be the best. And not to mention, USM fans could also support MSU or Ole Miss, instead of being enemies. I've always hated that the small schools in other states double as fans of the big schools, but nope, not Mississippi. We have to tear each other down.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

Hattiesburg isn’t quite the town it used to be

That's right, it's probably better.

And all fans of MSU should WANT it to be better. We need all the good towns in MS we can get, towns that attract decent jobs and therefore decent people, people who live, work, spend $$$ in MS, then procreate and send their kids to MS schools, some of which will benefit MSU.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

If it wasn’t for MSU.... USM wouldn’t have an Athletic Department....

And like idiots, we keep playing them. After 2015, I had hoped that nightmare was over. The risk of losing is too large to do it. But nope, 3 times in the next 7 years, we have to play them.

I get the 'keep the money in-state' part, but I want MSU to gain more support in south Mississippi, rather than create more people that hate us.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

There should be 75-80 teams playing FBS football - 66 (I think) Power 5 schools plus maybe 6-8 of the ACC schools along with Notre Dame, Boise State, & BYU.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

They don't have the TV $$$ for that small a market...or make a golden triangle type market between coast and mobile? not sure it would help, but hattiesburg isn't enough tvs to bring money to the table.....MSU and UM alike should be thankful we got in the sec at the beginning

How? You have Tulane, Louisiana Tech, Lafayette and Monroe to compete with in NOLA who can tout the in-state angle and just as good of a football experience.

Now, what they did do for many years, was 'hub' off Mobile, at least with players, not sure about actual fans. But that has now dried up with the emergence of South Alabama and Troy.

They have benefited many years by being near the Coast, but I think there's way too much MSU and Ole Miss support there to ever really dominate it.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

Yeah I’m gonna disagree with you there. State playing USM is a good thing for USM. There was no negative effect. USM is in the position it’s in for 3 reasons: 1) Conference realignment, 2) Ellis Johnson, 3) poor university leadership. 6-7 years ago fan support was great (by G5 standards). It could be fixed, but it would take a lot of work, and the current admin isn’t up to the task.

11thEagle.... hypothetical question. What would be the scenario for you to entertain changing your fan allegiance to MSU or Ole Miss?

 

[11thEagleFan]

For me personally, there’s nothing that could make me “switch” my fandom, short of a Penn State-like scandal. I had 4 great years in Hattiesburg, and much of it was tied to USM. Besides, I have a lot of State connections and support them as my second team. IMO, State should be going after the USM fans that double as LSU fans.

 

[notoriousD_O_G]

And like idiots, we keep playing them. After 2015, I had hoped that nightmare was over. The risk of losing is too large to do it. But nope, 3 times in the next 7 years, we have to play them.

I get the 'keep the money in-state' part, but I want MSU to gain more support in south Mississippi, rather than create more people that hate us.

I don't live in South MS and haven't spent much time in the pine belt but it was shocking to me how many Southern fans at the games in 2014 and 2015 where wearing shirts talking **** about State/Ole Miss. IDK if playing and beating them in football makes them like us more or less but from reading message boards over the years it seems like most of their hatred came from us not playing them. Now they mostly dislike us because we won their regional in 2017.

 

[was21]

State doesn't need street band wagon LSU fans. They don't bring anything to the table.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

For me personally, there’s nothing that could make me “switch” my fandom, short of a Penn State-like scandal. I had 4 great years in Hattiesburg, and much of it was tied to USM. Besides, I have a lot of State connections and support them as my second team. IMO, State should be going after the USM fans that double as LSU fans.

Yeah I agree with you. And I'll take all the USM fans that are secondary MSU fans too.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

State doesn't need street band wagon LSU fans. They don't bring anything to the table.

This attitude is why we still suck.

All big time programs have tons of sidewalk fans. Sidewalk fans fill up stadiums and spend money too.

 

[GloryDawg]

And like idiots, we keep playing them. After 2015, I had hoped that nightmare was over. The risk of losing is too large to do it. But nope, 3 times in the next 7 years, we have to play them.

I get the 'keep the money in-state' part, but I want MSU to gain more support in south Mississippi, rather than create more people that hate us.

The risk of losing to LA Tech is greater. We will not lose to USM. Why be scared?

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

The risk of losing to LA Tech is greater. We will not lose to USM. Why be scared?

We are Miss State. You never know when the random 3-9 season is coming, and it could get crossed with the cycled up season for USM, while being played in Hattiesburg. That won't end well.

 

[tired]

We are Miss State. You never know when the random 3-9 season is coming, and it could get crossed with the cycled up season for USM, while being played in Hattiesburg. That won't end well.

Recruiting has been too good for that to happen.

 

[Arthur2478]

3 reasons: 1) Conference realignment, 2) Ellis Johnson, 3) poor university leadership.

I think the Ellis Johnson factor is overblown by USM fans' hatred of that guy. He was only there 1 year. Hell, Central Florida went 0-12 in 2015 and they've bounced back just fine. I think the conference realignment and the leadership issues are much more to blame.

 

[11thEagleFan]

I don’t think it’s overblown at all. And IMO, Conference realignment and Ellis Johnson go hand in hand. That was the worst possible time to go 0-12. Yes, TV sets matter, but so does a competitive football program. You just cannot go 0-12 with a team that went 12-2 the year prior. There were guys on that 0-12 team that went on to have NFL careers. Ellis was the problem.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

I think the Ellis Johnson factor is overblown by USM fans' hatred of that guy. He was only there 1 year. Hell, Central Florida went 0-12 in 2015 and they've bounced back just fine. I think the conference realignment and the leadership issues are much more to blame.

That, and Larry Fedora seems to have a Bobby Petrino type effect. Can somehow duct tape together an elite season or two in the first 3-4 years, that makes you look unbeatable and falsely raises fan expectation, then it totally collapses. At USM and Arkansas/Louisville Part 1, it collapsed on the next guy. This time around at UNC and L'ville Part 2, they got to experience it themselves.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

Conference re-alignment probably has the most to do with it.

Enrollment stagnation probably has a lot to do with it too. Seem to remember back in the 90’s USM, Ole Miss and MSU were within 1000 enrollment of each other. USM has stayed in that 13,000 to 13,500 range since then while both MSU and Ole Miss have crossed 20,000 and both now exceed 22,000 in enrollment.

Then add all the other 4 year schools in Mississippi, plus 14 Junior colleges, of which 2 approach or exceed 10,000 students, and you see that Mississippi has too many D-1 programs.

Arkansas, a similar sized state, also has several 4 year schools, but only Arkansas is a FCS competitive program. Arkansas State is much like USM. I understand Central Arkansas in Conway is pushing towards going D1 in all sports. Not a good idea in my opinion.

 

[patdog]

Biggest factors in USM decline has been the emergence of ULM, ULL, Troy, UAB, UCF etc that erodes the old traditional USM Recruiting base. Conference realignment is a close 2nd. Ellis Johnson is a popular scapegoat, and he was terrible that 1year, but the other factors were happening with or without him. Best thing USM & thd rest of CUSA & Sunbelt could do would be to merge the 2 conferences & split into 4 divisions geographically. Play 8 conference games plus the last week of season 2 divisions would play each other (1vs1, 2vs2, etc). The winners of the 1vs1 games would play in the conference championship game.

 

[Cubswillwinitonedaydawg]

Hattiesburg isn’t quite the town it used to be

I see a couple people have already addressed this, but assuming you meant it is worse and not better, that is a terrible take. The Pine Belt is a great area that is a few hours from lots of other great areas, has tons of great restaurants (Robert St. John with several), several good school districts, and plenty of places to take the kids. Maybe it's me comparing a Meridian area to Hattiesburg area move (so the bar was set low), but my family loves it here.

 

[11thEagleFan]

Agreed. Hattiesburg is a great town. If/when I move back to Mississippi, I will be relocating my family there or to the coast.

 

[Cubswillwinitonedaydawg]

That's right, it's probably better.

And all fans of MSU should WANT it to be better. We need all the good towns in MS we can get, towns that attract decent jobs and therefore decent people, people who live, work, spend $$$ in MS, then procreate and send their kids to MS schools, some of which will benefit MSU.

This is very accurate. The more good cities/areas we have with good quality of life, the better off MS is. 1 or more being in the southern part of MS won't impact MSU negatively at all. I now have 3 nieces that have hit college age - all from Jones County (a short drive to USM). 2 of 3 will end up with degrees from MSU. 1 more in HS wants to go to State after seeing the atmosphere and hearing me and her sister talk about it. (We are doing our part to push up the 20k enrollment.**)

 

[JoMo MoJo]

State doesn't need street band wagon LSU fans. They don't bring anything to the table.

Y’all lay of 11thEagleFan. He is a solid dude.

 

[PineGroveBully]

Yea but the point behind my post was that you could feel bad for USM as they simply got left behind and simply don't have an avenue to becoming ranked. uM hired a snake oil salesman, got caught cheating, then hired Fat Mat. All of that is on them. Thus my saying USM has a legit excuse.

Getting left behind and still living in the first half of the 19th century are two totally different things.

 

[OneParticularHarbor]

11thEagle.... hypothetical question. What would be the scenario for you to entertain changing your fan allegiance to MSU or Ole Miss?

You didn't ask me, but being a long-time semi-lurking USM fan here, the answer is I wouldn't change for anything. If I did, you shouldn't respect me any more. USM is my school, for better or worse. Time aren't great now, but it's been more fun than not over the years.

 

[wpmusm]

Let me quote several of these posts so I don't have to individually reply to each one.

I think the Ellis Johnson factor is overblown by USM fans' hatred of that guy. He was only there 1 year. Hell, Central Florida went 0-12 in 2015 and they've bounced back just fine. I think the conference realignment and the leadership issues are much more to blame.

I think you're on to something. EJ certainly hurt the USM program, and it took Monken a few years to make us competitive again. But our tanking also coincided with the CUSA mass exodus to the AAC. During the Fedora years, we were close to 30k a year in average attendance. I get that's nothing to the SEC, but we were regularly top 10-12 in G5/non-AQ attendance. Fedora energized the diehards and even brought in some casual fans in South Mississippi into the fold. After the 2012-2014 nightmare stretch and AAC realignment, a lot of people just quit. The terrible football coupled with all of our rivals leaving was just too much for a lot of people. It's like if State had the Croom era AND traditional rivals like Ole Miss, LSU, and Bama were replaced by schools you had little to no history with. Many diehards don't support the program nearly as much as they used to and the casual fans are probably rooting for some SEC team now.

I don't live in South MS and haven't spent much time in the pine belt but it was shocking to me how many Southern fans at the games in 2014 and 2015 where wearing shirts talking **** about State/Ole Miss. IDK if playing and beating them in football makes them like us more or less but from reading message boards over the years it seems like most of their hatred came from us not playing them. Now they mostly dislike us because we won their regional in 2017.

USM fans hate both schools. But there is some sense of respect for State since you guys are willing to play us in pretty much all of the sports (unlike OM).

The risk of losing to LA Tech is greater. We will not lose to USM. Why be scared?

Uh, we've beaten LaTech 4 years in a row now.

When Louisville, Memphis, Tulane, TCU, ECU, Cincy, etc left them stuck in CUSA with teams spread far and wide, they we’re screwed.

I think they would be better served by joining Sun Belt or forming a new SEC, Jr type conference (take best of cusa and sunbelt in sec footprint). But USM is tough spot to be leader on this because they don’t bring numbers of viewers and or fan base.

Also, in addition to conference realignment, programs like USA, Troy, UCF, USF, etc taking off cut into their recruiting base.

Totally agree with your best of CUSA and Sun Belt comment. Could sorta be like the MAC of the South. Might create some regional rivalries and would decrease travel costs. Most of these schools are within driving distance of Hattiesburg.

East: App, Marshall, MTSU, WKU, UAB, Georgia Southern
West: USM, ULL, LT, Rice, Arky State, Troy (or South Al)

Something like that.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

You didn't ask me, but being a long-time semi-lurking USM fan here, the answer is I wouldn't change for anything. If I did, you shouldn't respect me any more. USM is my school, for better or worse. Time aren't great now, but it's been more fun than not over the years.

Yeah but there's room for dual allegiances within different competitive divisions. Let's face it, P5 and G5 are different playing fields. Certainly there is some overlap at the bottom of P5 and the top of G5 but it is what it is in the general sense. That's why UCF will never be considered for the playoff, and for good reason. The only G5 team that had a shot of a national title was Boise State, and they won for a decade, and beat major P5 teams during the season, not in a bowl game again an uninterested party.

This wasn't the case in 1990. And trends seem to be going away from what was going on in the 80s during the USM heyday.

All that to say, I don't see any reason not to be a USM fan and an MSU or Ole Miss fan.

I don't mean that in a patronizing way either, Lord knows MSU fans get looked down upon by the SEC-have's.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Yep. I’m on record as to preferring to live in Hattiesburg instead of Oxford or Starkville.