Anyone else have a hard time perceiving bama as a college program?...

[thekimmer]

Or at least a typical college program? Absolutely they are far from typical when it comes to winning but its more than that. They just project a different persona to me. Not exactly like a pro team but not exactly like a college team either.

I suppose it might be a combination of their NFL-like field presence and the influence of the significant 'redneck' element in their fanbase that doesn't just root for the team but involves themselves in the program and gameday experience. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

All of this is might already be patently obvious to others but any other thoughts?

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Only in the way they seem to have a staff three times the size as most teams. I don't know the numbers. It just seems that way to me.

 

[JML105]

Let me preface by saying I acknowledge that Alabama is above average and seemingly has the advantage in every aspect of the game from coaching to every position on the field to depth of lineup to even the refs...

BUT they aren't some unbeatable force that everyone makes them out to be. Most of that mindset is perception. Its like David and Goliath. All the people of the day perceived Goliath as unbeatable, but David knew his weakness (Goliath was extremely near sighted) so David did not engage with him in hand to hand combat because it wouldn't even be a contest with the size, strength, and armor that Goliath had against him. Y'all know the rest of the story. Point is that Alabama opponents, especially one's like us who are not extremely outmatched by them, have a good chance of beating them if they don't listen to the hype and be intimidated by Saban and the grandeur of the environment. The way that Alabama is beat is by exploiting their weakness (ever team has them) and not trying to beat them at their own game. A good example is how aTm did it with Johnny Football and even how UofM did it.

Everyone hypes up Alabama until they fall to a team that figures out how to beat them, and then everyone is like they weren't as good as we thought. Its quite a paradox how society will build the perception of people, teams, you name it; to something way bigger or greater than it actually is. So much of winning is getting past the perception, and that is almost 100% mental.

 

[Dubs.sixpack]

I agree. I've never seen anything like them. They don't seem to have down weeks. They may start sluggish but you always know they'll turn it on. The worse part is, I expect this to continue for another 3-5 years. I kept thinking they'd be like Miami in the early 2000's or USC around 2004-2006 where they dominate CFB and then taper off but I can't fathom that happening anytime soon.

I know it's not all above reproach but I don't see how they are doing more than what other schools are doing. It's taken some of the fun out of CFB for me but I can't be mad at them for it. I'm fascinated by what Saban and even Belichick have done. They're so process driven that they look and act the same on a Monday in the offseason as they do in a Superbowl or CFB championship game.

 

[patdog]

BUT they aren't some unbeatable force that everyone makes them out to be.

They really are. Or at least much closer to it than any program in history has ever been. Here's their losses in the last 10-1/2 years:
13-1 Florida
13-0 Utah
9-5 South Carolina
11-2 LSU
14-0 Auburn
13-1 LSU
11-2 Texas A&M
12-2 Auburn
11-2 Oklahoma
9-4 Mississippi
14-1 Ohio St
10-3 Mississippi
14-1 Clemson
10-4 Auburn

 

[thatsbaseball]

They know how to exploit every NCAA loophole to the fullest and then some and have for decades. They are geared to spend whatever it takes on facilities etc.. They now have a coach that can maximize their potential but if you think Saban originated what's going on at Bama, you're fooling yourself. It starts from the president and board and goes down from there. The next coach may not be as successful but the resources for success will still be there big time. A truly "well oiled" machine.

 

[thatsbaseball]

The best comparison is UCLA and John Wooden in many ways.

 

[Shmuley]

The dominance will continue for at least 2-3 years AFTER Saban hangs it up. C.f., LUS in '06 and '07.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

They know how to exploit every NCAA loophole to the fullest and then some and have for decades. They are geared to spend whatever it takes on facilities etc.. They now have a coach that can maximize their potential but if you think Saban originated what's going on at Bama, you're fooling yourself. It starts from the president and board and goes down from there. The next coach may not be as successful but the resources for success will still be there big time. A truly "well oiled" machine.

This is an excellent summation of them. They were already doing what it takes, but they found a coach who is simply perfect for what they are. This dominance is the result.

People act like this is 'just a game'. It's not. The economy and pure 'hope' generated by successful sports teams, especially in the South, is unbelievable.

 

[JML105]

They really are. Or at least much closer to it than any program in history has ever been. Here's their losses in the last 10-1/2 years:
13-1 Florida
13-0 Utah
9-5 South Carolina
11-2 LSU
14-0 Auburn
13-1 LSU
11-2 Texas A&M
12-2 Auburn
11-2 Oklahoma
9-4 Mississippi
14-1 Ohio St
10-3 Mississippi
14-1 Clemson
10-4 Auburn

So you're saying there's a chance. That's all I'm saying. And that most of those teams beat them by not only having good talent in key positions, but also by having a bit of a unique strategy.

Like I said, they are obviously great, but to mention them and NFL together is just ridiculous. The speed and execution by an average NFL team is so far from Alabama on their best day it isn't even funny. They are just a really really good college team that is well coached and financed, but not untouchable.

 

[patdog]

Like I said, they are obviously great, but to mention them and NFL together is just ridiculous.

Yeah, it is. They're 20 points better than almost any other college team, but they're at least 20 points worse than any NFL team. I saw a good analogy from Tusk some time ago. Alabama might have 20 NFL players on their team in any given year. NFL teams have 53 NFL players on their teams. Not to mention the NFL has 53 grown *** men on their rosters, while Bama's 20 future NFL players are still developing and learning.

 

[JML105]

Agree with that sentiment. However, I'd say any NFL team would beat them by at least 50 to nothing. A team like the current Saints or Rams could score on them every 3 minutes. It would be the equivalent of Alabama playing South Panola (at their peak).

 

[MSU601Dawg]

Let me preface by saying I acknowledge that Alabama is above average and seemingly has the advantage in every aspect of the game from coaching to every position on the field to depth of lineup to even the refs...

BUT they aren't some unbeatable force that everyone makes them out to be. Most of that mindset is perception. Its like David and Goliath. All the people of the day perceived Goliath as unbeatable, but David knew his weakness (Goliath was extremely near sighted) so David did not engage with him in hand to hand combat because it wouldn't even be a contest with the size, strength, and armor that Goliath had against him. Y'all know the rest of the story. Point is that Alabama opponents, especially one's like us who are not extremely outmatched by them, have a good chance of beating them if they don't listen to the hype and be intimidated by Saban and the grandeur of the environment. The way that Alabama is beat is by exploiting their weakness (ever team has them) and not trying to beat them at their own game. A good example is how aTm did it with Johnny Football and even how UofM did it.

Everyone hypes up Alabama until they fall to a team that figures out how to beat them, and then everyone is like they weren't as good as we thought. Its quite a paradox how society will build the perception of people, teams, you name it; to something way bigger or greater than it actually is. So much of winning is getting past the perception, and that is almost 100% mental.

Excellent post, we see this every time someone goes on a dominant run, the media and their followers build people up to mythic unbeatable status. Hell it happened again this week with the way people are building Duke up after the UK game. But I'd be willing to bet Duke doesn't win it all this year, and loses 4-5 games like the usually do with loaded rosters. The Warriors were 1 half away from being beaten by the Rockets in game 7 last yr. People probably thought Lebron, DWade, and Bosh would win titles together until they retired. Tiger Woods, Roger Federer... Even the GOAT's lose in their prime, because guess what, a lot of other people are really good too.

Bama has lost a game every year except for 2009. They're better than everyone else and more importantly more consistent and able to overcome complacency which is what is rare, but they're not someone that "can't be beaten" because they have more advantages than everyone else. There are a handful of other schools that can match their money and can get near the same talent. Plus their coaches get raided every year

 

[RiverCityDawg]

Let me preface by saying I acknowledge that Alabama is above average and seemingly has the advantage in every aspect of the game from coaching to every position on the field to depth of lineup to even the refs...

BUT they aren't some unbeatable force that everyone makes them out to be. Most of that mindset is perception. Its like David and Goliath. All the people of the day perceived Goliath as unbeatable, but David knew his weakness (Goliath was extremely near sighted) so David did not engage with him in hand to hand combat because it wouldn't even be a contest with the size, strength, and armor that Goliath had against him. Y'all know the rest of the story. Point is that Alabama opponents, especially one's like us who are not extremely outmatched by them, have a good chance of beating them if they don't listen to the hype and be intimidated by Saban and the grandeur of the environment. The way that Alabama is beat is by exploiting their weakness (ever team has them) and not trying to beat them at their own game. A good example is how aTm did it with Johnny Football and even how UofM did it.

Everyone hypes up Alabama until they fall to a team that figures out how to beat them, and then everyone is like they weren't as good as we thought. Its quite a paradox how society will build the perception of people, teams, you name it; to something way bigger or greater than it actually is. So much of winning is getting past the perception, and that is almost 100% mental.

I agree with your ultimate point, though I would just say that the nature in which Alabama has dominated this year is unlike anything we've really seen before.

Also, David had Yahweh on his side and otherwise wouldn't have defeated Goliath. I mean, I guess God could want us to win??**

 

[MarkDallas]

Also, David had Yahweh on his side and otherwise wouldn't have defeated Goliath.

Right. I like Malcolm Gladwell as much as the next guy, but this nearsighted nonsense defeats the whole purpose of the story.

 

[HumpDawgy]

As much as I can't stand the guy, Saban will go down as one of the greatest college coaches of all time. He just knows how to run a college program better than everyone else. Dabo is probably the second best and will prolly take over once Saban hangs it up.

 

[Seinfeld]

Good stuff, and the only thing I'd add is that I don't think that Bama's dominance comes from their starting 22. Yeah, those guys are better than most other starters, but there are teams that can match up with them or even beat them with all other things being equal. Where things become very unequal, however, is when you get halfway through a season with injuries piling up. Most teams are putting in redshirt freshmen, guys that are out of position, or 3* back ups at that point while Bama just signals over another high school all american. it's insane, and Bama's depth is what puts them so far apart form the rest of college football

You're right, though. Rarely ever are they truly unbeatable

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

My proposal for CFB parity.

I think parity in sports leagues is a good thing. I like that fans of almost every team at the start of a year has hope. It has been achieved in the pro sports due to drafts and salary caps. Unless you have incompetent ownership like the Browns or Jets you have a chance. Even those fans realize the system is not against them, it is just the management.

So you can't do those things to college football because the system already takes advantage of the players. However you can:

The team that wins the championship loses 5 scholarships the next year. The other three to make the playoffs loses 4. Five and six lose 3. Seven through ten lose 1. Maybe you add something to adjust it based on the number of years in a row in the top ten. (If your a first timer you don't lose any for example no matter where you finish.)

Spending caps could be imposed that each conference could set the max amount of money that could be put yearly into each sport. This would include overall staff salaries. This would be the yearly outlay and generally not include improvements in facilities.

 

[thekimmer]

I agree with all that Bama is dominant on the field but.....

Or at least a typical college program? Absolutely they are far from typical when it comes to winning but its more than that. They just project a different persona to me. Not exactly like a pro team but not exactly like a college team either.

I suppose it might be a combination of their NFL-like field presence and the influence of the significant 'redneck' element in their fanbase that doesn't just root for the team but involves themselves in the program and gameday experience. Not that there is anything wrong with that.

All of this is might already be patently obvious to others but any other thoughts?

This thread wasn't really intended to talk about how good they are or attribute their 'difference' to just their prowess on the field. I was just trying to express my opinion that their program just has a different feel about it than any other. I would describe it as an unusual detachment from the university. A considerably un-collegial vibe that sometimes projects an atmosphere more like a NASCAR event than a college football game (no offense to NASCAR). I was just wondering if anybody else got that impression as well.

 

[thekimmer]

My proposal for CFB parity.

I think parity in sports leagues is a good thing. I like that fans of almost every team at the start of a year has hope. It has been achieved in the pro sports due to drafts and salary caps. Unless you have incompetent ownership like the Browns or Jets you have a chance. Even those fans realize the system is not against them, it is just the management.

So you can't do those things to college football because the system already takes advantage of the players. However you can:

The team that wins the championship loses 5 scholarships the next year. The other three to make the playoffs loses 4. Five and six lose 3. Seven through ten lose 1. Maybe you add something to adjust it based on the number of years in a row in the top ten. (If your a first timer you don't lose any for example no matter where you finish.)

Spending caps could be imposed that each conference could set the max amount of money that could be put yearly into each sport. This would include overall staff salaries. This would be the yearly outlay and generally not include improvements in facilities.

Perhaps, I thought about something like this as well. Differential scholarships might help some. Scholarship limitations were already put in place back in the 70s(?) to eliminate guys like the bear from stockpiling players just to keep other teams from getting them. I think the money issue would be next to impossible to control. The amount of money flowing around CFB is enormous and trying to control it would be like trying to hold back a tsunami.

 

[WutheringDawg]

I think there are external factors playing into their dominance/perceived dominance this year. The SEC overall has taken a step back this year, and offensively there are very few "juggernauts" who could even test the Bama defense this year.

Also, recency bias is always something that has to be taken into account. I know it's not apples to apples, but we only have to go back five years to find a team that had a higher avg. margin of victory - Jamies Winston & co. at Florida State. Thier avg. margin of victory was something like 41.5 to Alabama's paltry margin of 37.2.

Edit to add: 2013 FSU strength of schedule - 47th. 2018 Alabama strength of schedule -57th (I know it's not a complete resume, but it gives you an idea of the level of competition.

 

[Ranchdawg]

I would say more like a wrestling match where you knew the outcome and were just there to yell for the winner and talk smack to the loser and their fans.

 

[JML105]

Also, David had Yahweh on his side and otherwise wouldn't have defeated Goliath. I mean, I guess God could want us to win??**

The Good Lord always wants us to win. Especially against Alabama.

 

[JML105]

Right. I like Malcolm Gladwell as much as the next guy, but this nearsighted nonsense defeats the whole purpose of the story.

Lol. Good eye.

 

[thatsbaseball]

BUT like many other college teams they are one injury away from being a totally different team.