We are dead last in the nation offensively vs our peers. Plenty of schools are installing completely different offenses this season. Plenty of schools have new coaches. But none of them suck offensively like we do. And very few of them have as much talent on offense as this team does. Key is a 4* QB, we have 4* RBs, we have a 4* WR in Guidry, we have some good OL. This same group of players averaged 3 times as many points per conference game as we are now. There is absolutely no reason under any circumstances for this offense to suck so bad. This kind of dumpster fire just can't be tolerated or excused. And if Moorhead doesn't realize that by now, there's probably never any hope for him.
For the we have to give him time crowd.
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
Perfectly articulated sir, could not agree more with you. Jomo’s a bust, it will take time for some to come to terms with it. I wish them the best of luck in their continued faith, as for me and mine we will be waiting on the next coach. My only question at this point is, does any one have Bill Clark’s number?
And that same crowd needs to answer these questions: Which unit has Crxxmshead had virtually nothing to do with? Which unit appears to be functioning at a consistently solid level? Which unit has had virtually no "tinkering" by coaches? Which unit seems ready to play every week? Which unit does crxxmshead need to stay the f@ck away from?
Arkansas has completely wrong personnel, 21 pts per game in conference. Tenn 21.
A & M 23.3.....9.8 for us. That’s Sirmon bad
Preach my brother, we need more coverts to the fire his yankee *** train. That is what people are not understanding, this is not we having a little hiccup in our offensive scheming. This a garbage fire on wheels, why should have to wait two to three years for this fat *** to figure out how to be a coach in the sec? Somebody please answer that question.
Well we did change the scheme on defense to a 4-2-5 and there was a lot of complaining about that but that seems to have worked out well. Joe hasn't tinkered, but he did hire all those coaches.
Have you seen the schedule they have played so far? They're also 2-6....lost to North Texas at home....did you see their offense that game? They threw 7ints....LMAO at some of you guy's analysis.
Joe should design more RB runs, but this is squarely on Fitz for the most part. He doesn't even 17'n CHECK DOWN.....and he never has either...
ETA: Arkansas lost to Colorado State as well at home....
Joe should design more RB runs, but this is squarely on Fitz for the most part. He doesn't even 17'n CHECK DOWN.....and he never has either...
ETA: Arkansas lost to Colorado State as well at home....
The points per game I listed was for their conference only games...like ours. I also saw them improving each week and score a little bit vs Bama. So why don’t you research a little before spouting off and looking even more foolish for defending this aborted offense that our HC is running. We are 17 points per game less vs conference teams compared to last year. That is Sirmon bad regression and that is not just players or one player bad. In masse we as fans saw how bad Sirmon was and yet you think it’s just a QB problem? No much larger problem going on here
Last edited:
I did research it. They scored 3 on Auburn. They scored a lot on Ole Miss (I think that speaks for itself). I'll give them credit for putting up some points on Bama, but Bama's D isn't like it usually is, but 31pts is 31pts. Bama scoring so often makes their D tired, but still they did put up 31.
We've played Auburn, LSU, Kentucky and Florida in the conference so far. 3 of those are top 25 in total yards allow. Aub is #34.
Ark has played A&M and Bama who are ranked 23 and 15 and they put up 17 and 31 pts. Put up 3 on Aub's #34 ranked def.
Ark's offense isn't anything to brag about. They scored 23 on Tulsa this weekend. If we were scoring 20ppg, we would be winning, but it wouldn't solve our offensive problems.
We're missing just a hint of a passing game. You can't blame it all on Joe for Fitz throwing ints on 4yd curls and behind his WR on 5yd outs can you???
We've played Auburn, LSU, Kentucky and Florida in the conference so far. 3 of those are top 25 in total yards allow. Aub is #34.
Ark has played A&M and Bama who are ranked 23 and 15 and they put up 17 and 31 pts. Put up 3 on Aub's #34 ranked def.
Ark's offense isn't anything to brag about. They scored 23 on Tulsa this weekend. If we were scoring 20ppg, we would be winning, but it wouldn't solve our offensive problems.
We're missing just a hint of a passing game. You can't blame it all on Joe for Fitz throwing ints on 4yd curls and behind his WR on 5yd outs can you???
I'm done trying to convince anyone. Facts have no place in this discussion for a significant portion of our fanbase. We are looking at an extended period of suckage, but that won't matter. Even Croom had his apologists at the end. So much of our fanbase sucks.
Are you sure? Because we seem to be running the ball just fine. We ran for over 200yds against LSU.
LSU passing game was similar to when we played UGA last year. Nick was 14/29 83yds, 0TD, 2int.
So you think we'd still be awful if we had an average SEC QB? What if we had Ty Story or Jordan Ta'amu. You still think we'd be this bad?
And how many of those runs took us into the endzone? Yep that’s what I thought. Look JoMo has destroyed our football team. There is no gray area.
We ran for 76 of those yards in one drive for the FG in the 1st quarter, which had very questions play calling at the goal line. 123 yards rushing the rest of the game. And the player you want to place the entire blame on ran for 131 of the 201 yards for 5.7 yards per carry.
LSU passing defense was 30th in the country when we played them last year and yet the player completed 65% of his passes last year against the same team. Btw they are 37th this year so don’t tell me it’s a much better passing defense this year, and that includes our game so it was worse prior.
We had 285 rushing last year and 180 throwing.
Southeast LA had 254 total offense this year, we are the second lowest their defense has given up this year. They threw for 189 yards. We ran the fewest plays of any team vs LSU this year.
Right. We needed to have a resemblance of a passing game to accompany it. I never said we didn't, I just said we ran the ball enough to win.
Hey I'm not defending the passing game. I've also said Moorhead is to blame for not force feeding the ball to the RBs and lack of creativity in the run game.
But let's not act like the whole stadium didn't also know what Mullen was doing on 3rd and 4th and short.
I've been asking folks and haven't got an answer yet, but if someone like Jordan Ta'amu or any average SEC QB like Ty Storey was our QB, what would our record be? I bet those two can at least know when a safety is blitzing off the edge at them or check down.
You would think a QB who's having issues with protection and throwing the ball down field would at least look to his check down man ONE 17'n TIME. Fitz has never done that though. Ever.
But let's not act like the whole stadium didn't also know what Mullen was doing on 3rd and 4th and short.
I've been asking folks and haven't got an answer yet, but if someone like Jordan Ta'amu or any average SEC QB like Ty Storey was our QB, what would our record be? I bet those two can at least know when a safety is blitzing off the edge at them or check down.
You would think a QB who's having issues with protection and throwing the ball down field would at least look to his check down man ONE 17'n TIME. Fitz has never done that though. Ever.
We don't have any of those guys. We have Nick Fitzgerald. No, he's not a great passing QB. But he was serviceable last year. What you are asking people to do is to give Moorhead time to get his QB in here to implement his system. What i am responding with is we didn't have to wait. A good coach puts his players in position to be successful, not ask them to do something they're incapable of doing.
We know Fitz can be a serviceable QB because he has been before. We know what THIS TEAM IN PARTICULAR is capable of doing because we watched them win 9 games last year. How you, or anyone else, can argue that point at all is completely astounding to me. Joe Moorhead destroyed this team, period, end of story. It's not even a debatable point. If you disagree, you are basically saying the sun sets in the east or the earth is flat....that's how wrong you are. If we are supposed to wait for Moorhead to get his type of players in here, it's a three year embarrassment in the meantime. That's fine if the team was already in the gutter.....fans would be more patient. But Moorhead inherited a custom-made ten win team , and spoke very clearly about having high expectations. This is 100% on him and everyone who is pissed is fully justified to be. You need to stop defending the indefensible.
We were 1st in 3rd down conversion in sec in all games last year and 3rd in sec games only
Just so we're clear, 2-6 with losses to North Texas and Colorado State (A bad CSU team, not a respectable CSU of years past), and a moral victory against Alabama is better than being 4-3?
Read the post I responded too. What you just typed had nothing to do with the plan fact that Ark with bad personnel fit is averaging 21 pts per game in conference play offensively and have shown improvement vs our aborted offense at 9.8 points per game. And nobody mentioned that I also listed A & M and Tenn offensive numbers with new coaches as well. That was ALL is posted about.
And another follow up question: is Arkansas on track to be better or worse than they were last year under Bert? They went 4-8 (1-7) last year and are currently 2-6 this year. They would have to beat Vandy this weekend and either us, Mizzou or LSU to even get back to what they were last season. But their regression under a 1st year coach is acceptable in your eyes while ours is unacceptable?
Please show me in that post where anything other than offenses that under went coaching chances this year in the SEC and what they have put up vs what we have done so far. You are arguing wins and losses and non conference games of just ONE of the teams I mentioned. Comprehend what is being discussed before trying to debate a non-component of the argument. Points in conference only games of 3 other SEC schools with HC chances vs what our offense has done. Period. That was all that was mentioned.
Have a question for the fire Moorehead fan base. Lets say he's fired after this year and we hire a new coach who's pedigree is defense and he becomes the DC and HC. Now the offense picks up, averages 20 ppg, but on the defensive side they give up 30 ppg and look like the horses *** doing it even with a number of experienced and quality players coming back. Does he get fired after 1 year? I realize that's an extreme example but it could happen. Don't get me wrong I think Moorehead and Fitzgerald are to blame for this crap show but firing him after 1 year isn't the answer. IMO Key needs to start maybe to add a spark to the O and if nothing else determine if he's the QB going forward. Also Moorehead needs to get his head out of his ***, maybe give Getsy play calling duties or totally adjust his offensive schemes. Being inside the 10 yard line and not giving either running back a chance to score is plan asinine!
Did any fan not want Sirmon fired after screwing up our defense into giving up over 30 points per game? I think each and everyone wanted him fired. There is your answer.
And honestly Moorehead has done a worse job as far as return starters, talent, hype, etc. compared to Sirmon. We are dead last in the country (127) in points per game vs conference teams. Sirmon was 95th in scoring defense
I'm right there with you, Drebin. If there's anyone still needing to be convinced that Moorhead has single-handedly ruined this team at this juncture, you're wasting your breath trying to explain it. There are really only two possible scenarios here...
1) Moorhead takes the blame because he's taken a seasoned, fully functional offensive unit and turned them into garbage
2) Our AD takes the blame because he hired someone incapable of working with a seasoned, fully functional offensive unit
You can argue for one, the other, or both, but either way... I'm sick of posters trying to pin blame on the players. THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO EXECUTE SOMETHING THAT THEY AREN'T CAPABLE OF EXECUTING. On top of that, my opinion on Moorhead is now going to change very little no matter how the rest of the season plays out. The fact that we've gotten to this point in the season without him realizing that Nick is not a good passing QB is just astounding. Then if you want to argue that he is aware, why the 17 isn't he doing anything differently??? And I'm not talking about installing a new wrinkle. I'm talking about running an entirely different offense that actually fits the personnel that he has and works. Is that really just too much to ask for a head coach making $3M/yr to attempt to win ballgames?
1) Moorhead takes the blame because he's taken a seasoned, fully functional offensive unit and turned them into garbage
2) Our AD takes the blame because he hired someone incapable of working with a seasoned, fully functional offensive unit
You can argue for one, the other, or both, but either way... I'm sick of posters trying to pin blame on the players. THEY'RE BEING ASKED TO EXECUTE SOMETHING THAT THEY AREN'T CAPABLE OF EXECUTING. On top of that, my opinion on Moorhead is now going to change very little no matter how the rest of the season plays out. The fact that we've gotten to this point in the season without him realizing that Nick is not a good passing QB is just astounding. Then if you want to argue that he is aware, why the 17 isn't he doing anything differently??? And I'm not talking about installing a new wrinkle. I'm talking about running an entirely different offense that actually fits the personnel that he has and works. Is that really just too much to ask for a head coach making $3M/yr to attempt to win ballgames?
I agree except Sirmon wasn't the head coach, huge difference in firing the DC compared to a HC after 1 year. Also if memory serves he wasn't "fired" was more of a lopsided trade with Louisville. Not defending Moorehead or Fitz but don't see him getting fired after 1 year.
Drebin, I respect you a lot as a poster here although we disagree a lot, but Moorhead is not missing a boat load of "his players" he's missing a QB and he's got one committed. Hell, Mayden is probably pretty decent. KT can't be worse and I bet he ends up being pretty good in the end. He should only be a RS FR this year but Ole Miss made sure we had to play him and burn his RS.
I do blame Moorhead for not making things simpler for Nick, but Nick can't do basic things. Everyone complained EVERY game about Nick's passing under Mullen. Mullen's scheme just didn't expose Nick like an average passing attack would.
Do you think Nick would look better if he was playing in LSU's system? No and I know that's your point that Joe should adapt his offense to Fitz and what I'm saying is he has adapted and I don't see him asking Fitz to throw the ball 20yds down field like he did in the first few weeks. The passing offense looked farily basic to me Saturday night in terms of the scheme. As I've said repeatedly, Fitz was getting intercepted on 4yd curls, throwing behind his man on 5yd out patterns and he was taking forever to make a decision before ultimately throwing into coverage down field while his eyes never moved on his target. Oh yeah Fitz has yet to check it down one time.
You're acting like it's all on Moorhead and not at all on Fitz. Look, we didn't bring in a coach to run Mullen's offense. If you really want to blame someone for THIS YEAR'S failure, blame Cohen because he hired a coach that's taking us in a different direction offensively that'll hopefully do what Mullen's couldn't do: Get us to Atlanta.
Fitz actually regressed as a passer under Mullen from his soph year. Go look at the stats.
And when we played the top of the SEC last year we got embarrassed. Last year's Bama game was the only Bama game under Mullen that we were not embarrassed. UGA and Auburn picked up their slack though in similar fashion as to what we saw in Death Valley Sat night.
Top half? We were embarrassed by Georgia and auburn. We got embarrassed by Kentucky and Florida this year
It's 100% on Moorhead.
Nick regressed as a QB from his soph to junior seasons because he lost his receivers. That, also, is an undeniable fact. State's receiving corps last year was as bad as it has ever been. Even in his regression, he threw for 200 and two TDs against LSU last year. What changed? That's right, Johnny! The coaching staff and the offensive philosophy.
When Moorhead gets "his" QB enrolled, up to speed, and ready to play SEC football, he won't have the defense he has currently, nor will he have the offensive line he has currently. He's not going to have depth at RB. This is why it is negligent for him to waste this season. He should have put his QBs in position to be successful instead of asking them to do too much.
I'm sure Nick will get scapegoated and they will put Key in there, but it's going to be more of the same, and then y'all will have to come up with another excuse. Nick is not throwing INTs becasue he just sucks. He's throwing INTs because he is confused and is not on the same page with his receivers. You can see his tentativeness and confusing in his body language. That's not his fault.
Last edited:
I am not going to defend Moorhead at all, but I will defend the concept of giving him some time.
Let's get this part out of the way: Our offense has been beyond unacceptable in our 3 losses. I wasn't even happy with our offense in the wins over Auburn and K-State, and we had 2 100 yard rushers in both of those games. Regardless of whether the players are not executing, or not understanding the offense, it is up to our OC/Head Coach to field a functioning offense. It seems obvious that there is a lack of proper communication going on and the coaches are expected to fix that.
However, I do not know exactly what is going wrong with our offense, and I have not read or heard a comprehensive explanation from anyone. Everything that people point to may be either coaching incompetence, or poor player execution, or some combination. Some of the problems are obviously coaching: the delays in getting plays called, the formation and substitution penalties, the lack of power formations in short-yardage situations, and seemingly abysmal play calls in the redzone (I mean, what was that play we tried to run against Auburn with 3 guys wide left and 3 guys wide right that resulted in a 2 yard sack?). Others may be personnel issues.
I know everyone has a theory about what is going wrong, but I haven't read anything that is more than just a guess. Without knowing where the breakdown is and how Moorhead has been trying to correct it, I have a hard time just announcing him as a failure and unfit to coach in the SEC. His offense undoubtedly can work in the SEC, but it sure as hell isn't working for us right now. Plus, as noted elsewhere, he is doing a lot of things right as a head coach so far; it is just the offensive production that is unacceptable.
I also don't think we will get a straight answer on what the problem is. JoMo seems like the kind of guy who will give answers when he can, but he also isn't going to single out any players or assistants as the problems. So we are left with just seeing whether or not the on field production can improve. So far it has not, but I am not yet willing to say that it won't improve. So I am stuck on giving him some more time before giving up.
Let's get this part out of the way: Our offense has been beyond unacceptable in our 3 losses. I wasn't even happy with our offense in the wins over Auburn and K-State, and we had 2 100 yard rushers in both of those games. Regardless of whether the players are not executing, or not understanding the offense, it is up to our OC/Head Coach to field a functioning offense. It seems obvious that there is a lack of proper communication going on and the coaches are expected to fix that.
However, I do not know exactly what is going wrong with our offense, and I have not read or heard a comprehensive explanation from anyone. Everything that people point to may be either coaching incompetence, or poor player execution, or some combination. Some of the problems are obviously coaching: the delays in getting plays called, the formation and substitution penalties, the lack of power formations in short-yardage situations, and seemingly abysmal play calls in the redzone (I mean, what was that play we tried to run against Auburn with 3 guys wide left and 3 guys wide right that resulted in a 2 yard sack?). Others may be personnel issues.
I know everyone has a theory about what is going wrong, but I haven't read anything that is more than just a guess. Without knowing where the breakdown is and how Moorhead has been trying to correct it, I have a hard time just announcing him as a failure and unfit to coach in the SEC. His offense undoubtedly can work in the SEC, but it sure as hell isn't working for us right now. Plus, as noted elsewhere, he is doing a lot of things right as a head coach so far; it is just the offensive production that is unacceptable.
I also don't think we will get a straight answer on what the problem is. JoMo seems like the kind of guy who will give answers when he can, but he also isn't going to single out any players or assistants as the problems. So we are left with just seeing whether or not the on field production can improve. So far it has not, but I am not yet willing to say that it won't improve. So I am stuck on giving him some more time before giving up.
Fair enough, its hard to defend a 17 point drop in ppg from last year. My only (small) silver lining is that Arkansas is currently 10 ppg lower in conference play than they were last year and A&M is about 5-6 lower. Tennessee is currently 7 points better.
Perfectly said, this 100% on Croomhead, wasting the talent on this years team for a pipe dream of a passing team in the sec west a few years down the road serves what purpose?
But Nick did those things in a system that was complicated just last year. He could check down last year. We did not just run one read passes and he went through progressions. Different system, yes, but there are overlaps within both schemes. The offensive regression is staggering. No Nick is not a great passing QB but has been serviceable enough to complement his better skill set of running.
Under what measurement do you think he regressed last year as a passer? Absurd
Well we are adding the same type recruiting talent, maybe even better, on the DL and D as a whole than we've had in year's past so no reason to think we can't be just as good as we are now down the road.
We also played LSU at home with Arden Key out of shape and their front 7 held together by band aides, but we ignore those facts because we happen to win. Mullen got destroyed by LSU in BR and Starkville most years, 2016 Damian Williams had a little late game magic but that was folly. You forget how mediocre Fitz was against Umass? Auburn? UGA? Arky?
If anybody, be mad at Cohen because this scheme isn’t for Fitz at all.
I’m not blaming Fitz, because he didn’t ask for Mullen to bail on him or for Cohen to bring in a man with a pass heavy scheme that Fitz can’t operate.
ETA: I’d blame OM also because I 100% believe he was able to full prepeare and train in the offense due to rehab.
Latest
-
01
Maroon and White Football
What Auburn HC Alex Golesh said about facing Mississippi State
-
02
Maroon and White Football Recruiting
2027 OL Li'Marcus Jones flips back to Colorado from Mississippi State
-
03
Maroon and White Football
Kelley Jones named Bednarik Award Semifinalist
-
04
Maroon and White Basketball
Sam Purcell praises Mississippi State's offensive breakout: "The way they played at UT Martin was what I've been seeing in practice"
-
05
Maroon and White Football
Mississippi State Week 11 Preview: Auburn Players to Know