Why are the Vols so bad?

[HomeBoyDawg]

Probably a stupid question but their last 5 recruiting classes were ranked as follows by Rivals:
2018 - 20th
2017 - 15th
2016 - 15th
2015 - 5th
2014 - 5th

Is the "cupboard bare"? I live in East Tennessee but I don't recall them losing too many players. Should Jeremy Pruitt really get a "pass" this year?

 

[Len2003]

They truly are awful. It's kind of astonishing how bad they've been for the last several years. It just goes to show you how sports are cyclical, so you should enjoy the highs. All I can say is bad coaching. That has to be it when you've got talent.

I think Pruitt should be given a one year pass, but, after that, you have a to show some improvement. At least go 6-6 or something.

 

[DAWG61]

4 consecutive bad hires in a row and too much influence in the decision making on the hires by old dudes still stuck in 1995.

 

[gymdawg.sixpack]

They have real issues at the very top, same as utexas. Weird how both uts have had such problems. Difference this yr are the hires.
Friend told me that the $ boys fight over who gets hired and they screw up so much each hire from the begginning that they keep settling on choices 7, 10, or beyond. Isnt odd how a school with their history and $ cant hire a known coach?

 

[sldrboy2002]

Curse of Phil Fulmer!

 

[patdog]

The last good coaching hire they've made was when Fat Phil stabbed Johnny Majors in the back and took over the job back in 1992.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

The last good coaching hire they've made was when Fat Phil stabbed Johnny Majors in the back and took over the job back in 1992.

Methinks he's back for round two. "Et tu Brute?"

Pruitt is a hayseed. He broke into college ball because he had the connection$ to HS football in Alabama. He's probably a great recruiter for top programs that recruit themselves. Tennessee is no longer one of those. Fulmer will coach UT again within 4 years.

 

[Digging dog]

Poor leadership from the (rocky) top.

 

[Dawgs'n'Grizz]

But I thought they were "Back" in 2014, 2015, and 2016.

 

[thf24]

Fulmer will coach UT again within 4 years.

If he does he'll fail just as spectacularly as the last three. UT is Southern on a larger stage. They found some unnatural recruiting niches and rode them to great success for a few decades, but those dried up as recruiting regions grew, exposure increased, and more programs emerged. UT would be best served by admitting and accepting that they're now a 7-5/8-4 type team with a shot at a 10-2 type year every 4-5 years if they do things the right way.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

A lot of those highly rated players haven’t panned out.

 

[jptay601]

Times have changed

The reason UT cannot get it together is multiple reasons.

1. 20 years ago most of UT's best players came from SC, GA, NC, FL. Now look at the teams from those states that are Top 15 National Powers.

2. TN high school football is not great and the majority of the elite athletes are from Memphis area. Where they are behind Ole Miss, Ark, and Memphis.

3. They are unable to recruit nationally because they have been so irrelevant for more than 10 years. Outside of a retired Peyton Manning, the Colquitt Punters and Kamara( Who was a complete waste of talent in Knoxville plus a transfer from Alabama). Who can kids identify with as a face of the program?

This argument could also be used for Nebraska and Scott Frost.

 

[shotgunDawg]

The reason UT cannot get it together is multiple reasons.

1. 20 years ago most of UT's best players came from SC, GA, NC, FL. Now look at the teams from those states that are Top 15 National Powers.

2. TN high school football is not great and the majority of the elite athletes are from Memphis area. Where they are behind Ole Miss, Ark, and Memphis.

3. They are unable to recruit nationally because they have been so irrelevant for more than 10 years. Outside of a retired Peyton Manning, the Colquitt Punters and Kamara( Who was a complete waste of talent in Knoxville plus a transfer from Alabama). Who can kids identify with as a face of the program?

This argument could also be used for Nebraska and Scott Frost.

All the reasons you just gave are recruited reasons, but they've recruited well. That's the entire premise of the post. Look back at the first post.

 

[fishwater99]

 

[jptay601]

True

All the reasons you just gave are recruited reasons, but they've recruited well. That's the entire premise of the post. Look back at the first post.

But how much of those recruiting rankings are flawed? How many of these players ever stepped foot on campus in Knoxville? How many truly played to the potential of their ranking or ended up playing at all. Recruiting rankings do not always indicate Success. Also possible the UT talent evaluators give bias to local recruits because they look elite against mediocre competition in HS.

 

[HomeBoyDawg]

All the reasons you just gave are recruited reasons, but they've recruited well. That's the entire premise of the post. Look back at the first post.

Exactly. I can easily understand with all the coaching changes and problems at the top why the Vols are no longer elite. But with the talent they've recruited over the past 4 or 5 years, I would expect even a mediocre coach could produce a decent team and have a winning season.

 

[Poundtowndog]

Many of those highly ranked recruits just never panned out for a variety of reasons.

 

[Dr. Funke.sixpack]

Because the best coach/program in that state reside near Graceland.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I believe it is because of these 2.

View attachment 11542

 

[mstateglfr]

I believe it is because of these 2.

not his best.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

At some point you have to question the recruiting rankings. It's amazing to me that hardly anyone is willing to do that.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

At some point you have to question the recruiting rankings. It's amazing to me that hardly anyone is willing to do that.

Nobody says they’re perfect but there’s a reason bama, OSU, Clemson, Georgia, etc... are competing for championships and are consistently in the top 10 in the recruiting rankings.

 

[Clarence Boddicker]

Nobody says they’re perfect but there’s a reason bama, OSU, Clemson, Georgia, etc... are competing for championships and are consistently in the top 10 in the recruiting rankings.

In my experience there's a big difference in the top 5 (which a monkey could get right), and the rest. Bo Bounds talks about this sort of thing all the time. So many variables affect who is #12 vs #27. But when you're chock full of high 4 stars and 5 stars (which again, a monkey could rate), it's easy to see who will be great.

Also, when you get into Top 25 territory and outside the top 5 or 10, seniority starts to matter a lot more i.e. age of the player. Tennessee may have good underclassmen and bad upperclassmen. Who knows? But we do know that they don't have good players at this point, the product backs that up. They are hapless.

 

[HumpDawgy]

The sign will always say it all about UT

View attachment 11543

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

In my experience there's a big difference in the top 5 (which a monkey could get right), and the rest. Bo Bounds talks about this sort of thing all the time. So many variables affect who is #12 vs #27. But when you're chock full of high 4 stars and 5 stars (which again, a monkey could rate), it's easy to see who will be great.

Also, when you get into Top 25 territory and outside the top 5 or 10, seniority starts to matter a lot more i.e. age of the player. Tennessee may have good underclassmen and bad upperclassmen. Who knows? But we do know that they don't have good players at this point, the product backs that up. They are hapless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sb...llege-football-recruiting-rankings-2018-class

The 5 year composite are pretty accurate compared to the polls currently. There are, of course, so anomalies like FSU and Wisconsin...which is where coaching and seniority and other factors come in to play.

 

[Go Budaw]

Nobody says they’re perfect but there’s a reason bama, OSU, Clemson, Georgia, etc... are competing for championships and are consistently in the top 10 in the recruiting rankings.

It’s a chicken or the egg scenario. Those programs bring in the best classes because guys that get commitable offers from those programs get higher ratings than those for other programs. Also, those programs bring in more 5* players than anyone else, and those are the guys that are easiest to rate because everyone knows they are good already. Most of the guesswork is which 3* and even most 4* guys are going to pop vs. which ones are going to bust. Nobody has figured that one out yet.

As it relates to the original topic of UT recruiting, just putting the composite class rank isn’t nearly enough data to judge whether or not the “cupbooard is bare”. The better way is to put together a list of every 4* and 5* player from those classes (bc those are the guys that are making the rankings that high). Then ask the following questions:

How many are still there?
What are each of their accolades (years lettered, All-SEC, NFL draft picks or projected draft picks)?
How many are currently listed #1 on the depth chart?
Who is there but injured?
What positions do they play?

I don’t care enough about it to do all that research, but if you really want to answer the question that is the level of detail that is needed.

 

[olddan]

Probably a stupid question but their last 5 recruiting classes were ranked as follows by Rivals:
2018 - 20th
2017 - 15th
2016 - 15th
2015 - 5th
2014 - 5th

Is the "cupboard bare"? I live in East Tennessee but I don't recall them losing too many players. Should Jeremy Pruitt really get a "pass" this year?

Since the Vols’ 2013 class was signed, 32 different players have transferred. You missed a lot.

 

[mount lefroy]

Simple. Recruiting rankings are not correct.

See Texas.

Fact is, it shows that they give higher ratings based on who they think the best athletes are recruited by and whaala.......the team has a great recruiting class. It works in Bama's case. not so much in others.

Been saying this for years.

 

[JoMo MoJo]

Tennessee is the original “boosters run the program” football teams. Having to answer to so many chiefs leads to a horrible on the field product

 

[HomeBoyDawg]

Several responses on here pertained to transfers or players otherwise lost from the highly ranked classes. So I checked the current roster against the classes and found:
2018 - 1 of 23 players no longer on roster
2017 - 3 of 28 players no longer on roster
2016 - 3 of 22 players no longer on roster
2015 - 18 of 29 players no longer on roster (at least three are in NFL: Alvin Kamara, John Kelly, and Kahlil McKenzie)

So, since 2015 recruits would be the seniors or rs juniors this year, only having 11 of 29 players from a top 5 recruiting class is likely the best explanation for why the Vols aren't even a decent team and likely won't have a winning season.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

View attachment 11548

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

All the reasons you just gave are recruited reasons, but they've recruited well. That's the entire premise of the post. Look back at the first post.

Recruiting rankings are directly related to how many subscribers a recruiting magazine has.

 

[Msubulldogfan1]

Tennessee is the original “boosters run the program” football teams. Having to answer to so many chiefs leads to a horrible on the field product

Bingo

 

[CochiseCowbell]

The sign will always say it all about UT

View attachment 11543

I don't know how it's possible but that program may be more self unaware than the Sharks.