For the Sherrill lovers I submit

[rebsgoingdown]

His last 3 seasons at MSU which lead into the Croom years. Nobody in his right mind can say this had no effect on whomever took the job after him. Especially someone who cleaned bad attitudes out (Nick Turner, etc) at the very start putting him even further behind the 8-ball.
2001 3-8
2002 3-9
2003 2-10 With loss to Tulane...games were over minutes after they started.

but, but, but.....I can hear you saying..."He took us to heights never before seen here!" There is no denying that, but to lay the whole blame of Croom on Croom is just wrong. Croom's undoing was his friendship to woody Mccorvey....and his unwillingness to change.

He cleaned up our program and was a great ambassador for MSU. All of this constant dredging up the past and badmouthing him tires me. He is done, it is over. Get over it!

 

[paindonthurt_]

I agree with everything you said.

And Caroom also got fired at the right time.

Thanks coach Croom.
Now say thank you back coach for that fat *** salary you got for 5 years.

 

[josebrown]

Croom sucked because of Croom. Not because of the Kang or Woody, simply because of his own decisions. Or as he stated on at least one occasion, he sucked because of the fans...It was our fault, remember? Kidding, not kidding...

 

[Philly Dawg]

I’ve never understood the desire to find a scapegoat for Croom. McCorvey wasn’t fired because it was Croom’s offense. Croom wasn’t going to bring in someone to replace his own offense.

 

[notoriousD_O_G]

I’ve never understood the desire to find a scapegoat for Croom. McCorvey wasn’t fired because it was Croom’s offense. Croom wasn’t going to bring in someone to replace his own offense.

Exactly. When Croom was hired it was all about his "West Coast" offense. I believe when he was asked what D we would run he said "I don't know, but it will be designed to keep them out of the endzone." Croom was an offensive coach who in 5 years never established an offense outside of Norwood/Dixon.

 

[Drebin]

He cleaned up our program and was a great ambassador for MSU. All of this constant dredging up the past and badmouthing him tires me. He is done, it is over. Get over it!

Sylvester Croom was indeed loved by everyone else in the conference. Probably our most well-liked coach among his peers. Now, you need to ask why that was. Everybody loves a guy they can put their arm around, share a few laughs with, and then beat by 40 points.

He was so in over his head that it was laughable. Well, it's laughable now. Back then, it was miserable.

Jackie's last three years were terrible, no doubt. He was going through significant personal struggles at the time, and he was trying to stop a free fall that was created by our pals to the north and the ******** NCAA investigation. But there's one thing I know for certain: we will never see Jackie on ESPN crying into the camera and making a hundred different excuses about who else was to blame for it all.

For all of the character and integrity that Sylvester Croom is credited for having, the biggest reason he isn't more revered for his tenure at State is his stubbornness, his ineptness, and his lack of accountability. He thinks he was done wrong - nevermind the millions he made while putting a ****** product on the field year after year. Nine years later, it still pisses me off.

ETA, in case my original post didn't "tire" you enough....

Every coach has a WTF moment. Jackie had a couple. Dan's was the loss to South Alabama. Croom's were so frequent and so memorable that it's no small wonder half our fanbase still has PTSD over it.

Maine
3-2
Punt from the 30
Back-to-back blowout losses to Vandy and UAB
Thanks for the check
La Tech road loss
losing record to Kentucky
the Georgia Tech fiasco
outscored by LSU 216-48 (average score 43-9)

 

[MSUDC11]

Our program crashed and burned under Jackie.

Croom basically just rearranged the deck chairs on the Titanic. He didn’t make it worse, but he didn’t do a whole lot to make things better. Mullen still inherited the worst or second worst roster in the SEC.

The whole “he cleaned up the program” idea has some truth to it, but we still had disciplinary issues. The gun scandal in 2008 was a big blow for our program at the time, and that was near the end of Croom’s tenure. Can’t blame “Jackie’s thugs” for that ordeal.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

But there's one thing I know for certain: we will never see Jackie on ESPN crying into the camera and making a hundred different excuses about who else was to blame for it all.

Jackie has some problems that he didn’t create. Croom had a bunch of self-created problems that he tried to pass off as others’ fault. My sig-pic reveals my bias but I never liked Croom. I’ve always revered Jackie. His teams made the 97-2000 era so much fun.

 

[tenureplan]

Will never forget the game where we were in it with LSU going into halftime. We get a turnover with 1:30 left on their side of the field. They pan to crooked hat and he is shaking his head. We ran out the clock. Lost the last shred of respect then.

 

[Philly Dawg]

Croom was an awful coach. If he'd inherited better players, it just would have drug out longer.

 

[vhdawg]

Will never forget the game where we were in it with LSU going into halftime. We get a turnover with 1:30 left on their side of the field. They pan to crooked hat and he is shaking his head. We ran out the clock. Lost the last shred of respect then.

I lost a good cowbell that day and was the most pissed off person in the stadium that whole game.

 

[Todd4State]

Jackie's last three years and 1995 sucked. Croom sucked every year outside of 2007. Dan looked for jobs at the end of the year and it cost us about three Egg Bowls.

I have issues with all three. Hopefully Joe will be better.

 

[ronpolk]

Jackie's last three years and 1995 sucked. Croom sucked every year outside of 2007. Dan looked for jobs at the end of the year and it cost us about three Egg Bowls.

I have issues with all three. Hopefully Joe will be better.

My guess is, you’re gonna find something to not like about Joe too.

 

[msstatelp1]

. All of this constant dredging up the past and badmouthing him tires me. He is done, it is over. Get over it!

Then why bring it up?

 

[MarkDallas]

but, but, but.....I can hear you saying...

Can you hear me rolling my eyes?

All of this constant dredging up the past and badmouthing him tires me. He is done, it is over. Get over it!

And yet you start a thread addressed to the "Sherrill lovers"? Do you see the irony? Take a little of your own medicine and get over it.

 

[RutherfordBHayes]

Sherrill was a victim of the 4 year publicized (emphasis) NCAA investigation. He couldn’t get recruits and his better assistant coaches all left. That’s the simple reality. His assistants at the end were older has-beens.

Croom has s a good man. But his teams were the worst-organized, least-prepared these eyes ever witnessed. Several times we would get a delay of game after a timeout. One year, we called a timeout on the first play of a game.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Who was more unimpressive, Crooms or the president we had for a short time before Keenum (Lee?)?

 

[paindonthurt_]

Foglesong?

 

[Jeffreauxdawg]

Foglesong?

I missed the boat on Foglesong... I know he pissed of faculty, which 17 them, but what else went down?

 

[Thirty-Two Dive]

Who was more unimpressive, Crooms or the president we had for a short time before Keenum (Lee?)?

Foglesong may have been, generally speaking, unimpressive. But he was the president who made the best move ever, for Mississippi State Athletics. The move that closed the SEC gap about as much as the SEC Network money...

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/DA/20070215/News/606102588/TL/

 

[Todd4State]

My guess is, you’re gonna find something to not like about Joe too.

Probably so. But if Joe wins big games like Jackie, consistently beats teams that he is supposed to like Dan and his down years are like Croom's 2007 season I'll probably be pretty happy overall.

 

[WutheringDawg]

Am I miss-remembering or did crooms have a guy sign from a jail cell? Or was that croom lore? I was in high school most of his tenure and didnt follow recruiting that closely.

 

[Mayor of Little London]

Foglesong would have never been a long term solution at a place like State and no one would if they came in and shook things up the way he did from the start. But...and I have heard it from Keenum himself, Foglesong made his job much easier because he was not afraid to make the tough decisions and did it by the boatload. Not all of those decisions were correct either but for the most part they were. Going from Templeton to Byrne was HUGE! And you can say hey SEC money ...but if that move wasn’t made we would have taken advantage of the sec money about like vandy did.

 

[gymdawg.sixpack]

U forgot that he was an awful coach. It was so easy to spot i realized it in his 1st game....that we won like 50-3 or something. The guy was clueless on the field

 

[johnson86-1]

Probably so. But if Joe wins big games like Jackie, consistently beats teams that he is supposed to like Dan and his down years are like Croom's 2007 season I'll probably be pretty happy overall.

So basically he just needs to be a top 5 coach?

 

[paindonthurt_]

Foglesong shook the tree to get all the dead apples loose.

 

[MississippiHeavyMetalDog]

... and State will be looking for a new coach.

 

[engie]

He cleaned up our program

^ The biggest lie of the whole fiasco. Yeah, he walked into an "impossible" situation, with the two classes in the top 15 that he had inherited and proceeded to kick off the team and not develop. We were going on probation at the time(with similar penalties to what OM actually got, but we were repeat offenders at the time) -- so instead of fighting to overcome it he decided to stay on in the NFL as a position coach instead of recruiting for us -- and pocket a couple dozen in-homes and official visits in 04 -- and fall asleep on a couple more of those visits. Until 5 years later a bunch of "his guys" were playing with guns on campus and was essentially what actually got him fired when we were close to decent again in 08 by the scoreboard. The arrest record under Croom was as bad as it has ever been at MSU also. And judging by that, he essentially came in, kicked off a bunch of guys he simply didn't like, and made our probation double or triple as bad as it actually had to be on paper.

 

[rebsgoingdown]

Mullen was the right person to take the program further....Croom cleaned it up but I agree, as unfortunate as it was, it was the right call. Great D, no "O". He was and is a great man. I just tire of everyone pinning how bad we were on him. Jackie left nothing ...literally..but a program in disarray.

 

[Todd4State]

So basically he just needs to be a top 5 coach?

No one rises to low expectations- Joe Moorhead.

But I don't know- is essentially going 9-3 every year and winning our important rivalry games more often than not a top five coach?

 

[Todd4State]

... and State will be looking for a new coach.

If we are looking for a new coach because the one we have is winning at such a high level that other people want him- that's fine with me. It's better than firing a coach because he is not performing. Plus, if we pay Joe like we did Dan it's going to be a lot harder for us to lose a coach to another team.

 

[dawgoneyall]

Sherrill lover here.

Damn the fools who think different.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

His last 3 seasons at MSU which lead into the Croom years. Nobody in his right mind can say this had no effect on whomever took the job after him. Especially someone who cleaned bad attitudes out (Nick Turner, etc) at the very start putting him even further behind the 8-ball.
2001 3-8
2002 3-9
2003 2-10 With loss to Tulane...games were over minutes after they started.

but, but, but.....I can hear you saying..."He took us to heights never before seen here!" There is no denying that, but to lay the whole blame of Croom on Croom is just wrong. Croom's undoing was his friendship to woody Mccorvey....and his unwillingness to change.

He cleaned up our program and was a great ambassador for MSU. All of this constant dredging up the past and badmouthing him tires me. He is done, it is over. Get over it!

View attachment 10853

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Sylvester Croom was indeed loved by everyone else in the conference. Probably our most well-liked coach among his peers. Now, you need to ask why that was. Everybody loves a guy they can put their arm around, share a few laughs with, and then beat by 40 points.

He was so in over his head that it was laughable. Well, it's laughable now. Back then, it was miserable.

Jackie's last three years were terrible, no doubt. He was going through significant personal struggles at the time, and he was trying to stop a free fall that was created by our pals to the north and the ******** NCAA investigation. But there's one thing I know for certain: we will never see Jackie on ESPN crying into the camera and making a hundred different excuses about who else was to blame for it all.

For all of the character and integrity that Sylvester Croom is credited for having, the biggest reason he isn't more revered for his tenure at State is his stubbornness, his ineptness, and his lack of accountability. He thinks he was done wrong - nevermind the millions he made while putting a ****** product on the field year after year. Nine years later, it still pisses me off.

ETA, in case my original post didn't "tire" you enough....

Every coach has a WTF moment. Jackie had a couple. Dan's was the loss to South Alabama. Croom's were so frequent and so memorable that it's no small wonder half our fanbase still has PTSD over it.

Maine
3-2
Punt from the 30
Back-to-back blowout losses to Vandy and UAB
Thanks for the check
La Tech road loss
losing record to Kentucky
the Georgia Tech fiasco
outscored by LSU 216-48 (average score 43-9)

Thank you for setting this fool straight. Anyone who was not around for the entire time of both tenures has no idea what happened to Sherrill down the stretch and what a fool Croom was. He was a good man, but a fool of a head coach.

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

I don't think Ole Miss had any more to do with Sherrill, than The Mississippi St

did with the Ole Miss Payola/Hookers for Recruits Scandal of the 2010's. Ole Miss is just a tiny, pipsqueak SEC welfare recipient that was lucky to join the league when it did.

What did Jackie in was:

-Beating Bammer 4 out of 5.
-Humiliating Florida twice on our home field.
-Beating Texas twice.
-Beating Auburn 6 out of 10 in the 1990's.
-Recruiting 4 and 5-star Jucos, in a day when all the big-time programs preferred signing High School recruits. Worked for us, still works for Kansas State.
-Much like what he did at Pitt (where Joe Paterno the Pedophile enabler couldn't stand him) and at Texas A&M (where he beat the T-sips 5 in a row), he landed at traditionally Land Grant colleges or the so-called "2nd Fiddle Schools" and whipped up on the alleged "flagships".

If you want to see who really turned the screws on The Mississippi State University, look at the above schools that Sherrill used to beat.

Ole Miss is like that yapping little creature behind Jabba the Hut.

 

[dogmatic]

One year, we called a timeout on the first play of a game.

Dammit, I'd forgotten about that.

A lot of the Croom-era errors felt like mistakes of complete disorganization - disorganization so complete those who needed it didn't know they needed it and were at a loss they couldn't explain.

 

[johnson86-1]

No one rises to low expectations- Joe Moorhead.

But I don't know- is essentially going 9-3 every year and winning our important rivalry games more often than not a top five coach?

I was looking more at the downyear being Croom's 2007. But as hard as that test is to satisfy (e.g., Jimbo Fisher won six in the regular season last year), there are more coaches than I would have thought if you judge them by once they get their program going. You end up with basically Saban, Meyer, Dabo, Petersen (giving him a couple of years to get washington going); David Shaw at Stanford; Kirby Smart; Chip Kelly; james Franklin (if you give him two years to get started at PSU); Jim Harbaugh; Paul Chryst (how did he land Wisconsin after winning 7, 6, and 7 games at Pitt; is Pitt that impossible to win at?).

Then you have a few very successful coaches that had basically one bad year or just a really long career:
Mike Gundy (if you give him a few years to get rolling and ignore the one 7-6 season after that that was worse than Croom's);
Mark Richt (had one season worse than Croom's and a few as bad, but that's over 18 years)
Bill Snyder has had a few slip ups in tenure at KSU. Basically a lot like Richt though. Very few bad years over a long career, but with the added difficulty of doing it at KSU.

A lot of the coaches that currently satisfy that requirement haven't yet had to do it for 10 years in one place, so presumably a lot of those people will end up like Fisher, and Richt once they coach long enough.

Some notables that dont' make it using that criteria:
Gary Patterson has had two losing seasons since joining the Big 12 and finshed at 7-6 the first year in the big 12. So basically half his seasons in the Big 12 have been worse than Croom's 2007.
Gus Malzahn went 8, 7, and 8 wins in 2014-2016.
Mark Dantonio
Pat Fitzgerald at Northwestern
David Cutcliffe
Kirk Forentz at Iowa
Mike Leach
Kyle Whittingham

But I'd say it's not top 5, it be more like top 10, depending on how good you think you have to be to do it in the SEC West versus some of the other places that current coaches are doing it.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Covered everything I was gonna say and more. Bravo!

 

[blacklistedbully]

Think you might need to read up on the ongoing lawsuit The Kang has with the NCAA. Are you familiar with, "xenareb" and her connection to Johanningmeier, the NCAA investigator? Are you aware there have been reports of ,"witness testimony" to Johanningmeier by friends of OM that, once it went to trial and perjury/potential lawsuits became a reality, some of those, "witnesses" recanted and/or said Johanningmeier misquoted them.

I also recall a letter being released, I believe by the NCAA, that mentioned the case being troubling in part because of the participation of a rival school, and that it was particularly nasty, etc.

OM was absolutely up to their elbows in that investigation.

 

[Seinfeld]

Same here. There were some lows with JWS, no doubt, but they were short lived in most cases, and I feel safe in saying that no less than 75% of my all time best memories of MSU football came from his tenure

He will always be the undisputed Kang to me