RUMOR: Butch to State

[DawgatAuburn]

Not my rumor, but some random twitter, although with 17k followers.


[TWEET]978849212464066562[/TWEET]

[TWEET]978850221345136640[/TWEET]

 

[BulldogBlitz]

Darn..thought we finally stole something from saban.

 

[Lettucexxxx]

Is icy hot still around?

 

[She Mate Me]

Cohen probably likes the idea of a known commodity after this recent fiadisasterco.

I'd be happy with Butch, not that I know what I'm talking about.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Seems like we’d try and steal from UK or UPig given their teams are better, but at this point, anything is better than what we currently have.

 

[aTotal360]

In true MSU fashion, we'll get Butch and Auburn will somehow get McDonnell.

 

[Lettucexxxx]

You ran off last night before we had a chance to finish our conversation. Last thing I remember, you were saying something about pills and mothers. Care to finish or do you wanna just swallow the cock you are chewing on?

 

[bulldogcountry1]

Thompson will be a comfortable, low risk hire. We won't have to pay him McDonnell money, so there should be plenty for top level assistants. We could probably go the associate HC label with a top notch hitting coach and recruiter.

That said, how would anyone know at this point?

 

[engie]

Seems like we’d try and steal from UK or UPig given their teams are better, but at this point, anything is better than what we currently have.

Come again

 

[WilCoDawg]

My pleasure...View attachment 9892

 

[patdog]

He would also be a good hire. He's completely turned the Auburn program around in his 3rd season. And we can trust him not to completely lose it mentally like our last coach did.

 

[philduckworth]

He's the safe pick and makes sense on several levels: knows MSU, knows SEC recruiting, very good pitching coach, known as being a class individual. Doesn't particularly fire me up, but I'm pretty set on McDonnell and Heefner so I'm destined to be disappointed.

 

[Philly Dawg]

I don’t think he’d recruit well enough. We’d have good teams but not elite teams.

 

[Dog316]

I don’t think he’d recruit well enough. We’d have good teams but not elite teams.

How are we doing with the last elite recruiter’s choices?

 

[patdog]

When have we ever had elite teams other than an occasional flash in the pan year? 2012, 1997, 1989-1990, 1983-1985, 1979. That's 8 legitimately elite teams in 40 years, and only 2 in the last 20. Consistently good teams would be a big improvement over the last 15 years taken as a whole.

 

[8dog]

We also have had more inconsitency at the head coaching spot than anyone. Look at the national powers. They have all had someone there for a long time. We havent had someone serve more than 8 years since polk 1.

 

[msstate7]

When have we ever had elite teams other than an occasional flash in the pan year? 2012, 1997, 1989-1990, 1983-1985, 1979. That's 8 legitimately elite teams in 40 years, and only 2 in the last 20. Consistently good teams would be a big improvement over the last 15 years taken as a whole.

Thanks for some reality. Our fanbase has lost their collective minds when it comes to the level of our program. We look in the mirror and see bama football when in actuality, we are more tcu football level. A good solid program, but no where near elite

 

[engie]

Calling any team "better" than Auburn based on a single site's midseason poll is dumb. Doubly so when you are basing preferred coaching hires on that method. Especially with the clarity you did it which would be indicative of the gap between a surefire host and a borderline tournament team. There is not a single team in the country that is clearly better than Auburn right now.

vs group 1 and 2(potential postseason teams)
Auburn: 16-5
UK: 7-6
Ark: 9-4

 

[MedDawg]

Before this weekend's series? **

Not my rumor, but some random twitter, although with 17k followers.


[TWEET]978849212464066562[/TWEET]

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nm

 

[engie]

How are we doing with the last elite recruiter’s choices?

The last elite recruiter doesn't even have a single class of his own on campus yet. He did however have our next 3 classes lined up inside the top 5.

Guys sign in November. They show up to campus the following August. His first class would have been here in 4 months.

 

[Philly Dawg]

What straw man are you guys beating on? Nobody has been arguing that we’ve had consistently elite teams or are an elite program. But don’t we aspire to be one? If so, we need to recruit better which was my objection to Butch.

 

[engie]

When have we ever had elite teams other than an occasional flash in the pan year? 2012, 1997, 1989-1990, 1983-1985, 1979. That's 8 legitimately elite teams in 40 years, and only 2 in the last 20. Consistently good teams would be a big improvement over the last 15 years taken as a whole.

We have done literally everything in the last 7 years other than win a national title. Literally every single other box has been checked.
- SECt title
- SEC title
- Host(2x)
- National Seed/Super Host(1x)
- Omaha and the finals(1x)
- 4 regional titles

Canni had the next 3 classes in the top 5. This year was likely going to be a struggle either way -- but we were/are knocking on the door. Finally back ahead in the facility battle. And you forgot the 2016 team that won the conference outright and was a national seed. If you call 89 elite that fell short of Omaha -- that team certainly was as well. Fact is -- the arms aren't far enough removed from TJ to be 100% and Canni took the magic bats with him apparently.

We are dangling paying like an elite program, recruiting like an elite program, with elite facilities, and an elite fanbase, means that we EXPECT to be an elite program. Settling for less is how we're in this thread right now talking about the Amory guy that LT would have gotten at least 95 times out of 100. Cohen is dangling a $2mil carrot in front of the elite coaches in college baseball. Butch is, at best, my 4th choice. Not to say that he wouldn't be a good one.

 

[dawgstudent]

When someone follows 9K and they only have 17K followers - that makes me think they purchased followers.

 

[She Mate Me]

Was thinking the same exact thing, except that I don't necessarily object to Butch.

 

[DawgatAuburn]

Thought the same.

 

[aTotal360]

Paid for a follow/unfollow bot.

 

[She Mate Me]

I was telling you to get some sleep (which you apparently didn't), but didn't want to come off as mothering you.

 

[patdog]

That's why I said last 15 years taken as a whole. Looking at it closer, I'll give you the 2016 team as elite, so that gets us to 9 elite teams in 40 years and 3 in the last 20.

 

[engie]

That's why I said last 15 years taken as a whole. Looking at it closer, I'll give you the 2016 team as elite, so that gets us to 9 elite teams in 40 years and 3 in the last 20.

The last 20 have not been to the standards of success that we expect -- and demand -- given the financial investments that have been made. There are no more excuses. The last 20 is arguably the absolute worst sample size you could go with as well in that it directly cuts off back to back CWS appearances.

We've won 9 regionals in the last 22 seasons. 4 in the last 7. You take out the 9 year drought that was the Polk2 shitshow and the subsequent rebuild under Cohen(which we can all 100% agree was a disaster) -- and we have won 8 regionals in 12 seasons with 3 trips to Omaha. And we still aren't where I expect us to be going forward.

 

[TitanTiger]

NextLevel needs better sources.

 

[patdog]

I'm not arguing that we can't be a consistently elite program or that we shouldn't aspire to be one. Just that other than 1979-1990, we really haven't ever been a consistently elite program, and even then we had several down years (80, 82, 86, most of 87 until we got into the SECT on the last day of the season and then won it). No doubt we need to get back to that level and appeared to be on the way until the Cannizaro meltdown and collapse of the team.

 

[Philly Dawg]

While I agree that we haven’t been an elite program, I’m not sure your standard isn’t too high. You can have some down years mixed in there if there are more up than down years and the up years are good enough.

 

[Go Budaw]

Seems like we’d try and steal from UK or UPig given their teams are better, but at this point, anything is better than what we currently have.

I am not sure if Mingione / Butch are the best we can do. But, if we had to choose between only them, I would take Butch every day and twice on Sunday. He has a much longer track record of success overall and knows MS way better. He has also turned around Auburn (who has historically been a bottom 1/3rd of the SEC program for the last 2+ decades) fairly quickly. Mingione inherited a pretty strong program that was extremely stable after being elevated by Cohen and Henderson, and he really has no other background outside of working under Cohen.

 

[Lettucexxxx]

I was telling you to get some sleep (which you apparently didn't), but didn't want to come off as mothering you.

Ill talk sports anytime with you. Leave all the other ******** in your locker.

My opinion is what it is. Mothers and pills have nothing to do with it. Let’s not go down this road again.

 

[Go Budaw]

The last elite recruiter doesn't even have a single class of his own on campus yet. He did however have our next 3 classes lined up inside the top 5.

Guys sign in November. They show up to campus the following August. His first class would have been here in 4 months.

This extremely premature legend of Cann needs to die immediately. There is not a single baseball class recruiting class ranking that means ANYTHING before the fall semester when kids actually show up on campus. All of the same things that were said about Cann (elite recruiter, etc.) were said about Cohen, too. And he briefly justified it by lining up quite a few Top 5-10 classes of his own. Then, the draft happened, and those top 5-10 classes turned into Top 20-30 classes in the drop of a hat. There is not one damn bit of evidence that things would have been any different under Cann. He just didn’t stick around long enough to even sign all the guys in his first class, let alone convince them to forgo the draft. So, he’ll forever be a legend in the mind of the recruitniks just because of early commitments that were mostly not going to ever end up here regardless.

There is an unfortunate truth that MSU is never going to be a consistent Top 5 recruiter in baseball in terms of kids that actually make it to campus, no matter how nice our stadium is or how good our coach is. The only thing that is ever going to change that is a seismic shift in the current status quo of either the NCAA scholarship limitations or statewide funding changes by way of lottery scholarships being implemented. The only way around those two massive roadblocks is identifying kids with at least semi-wealthy families that grew up as die hard fans of the program and are willing to pay a large portion of their own way. There just aren’t nearly enough of those kids in MS or nearby in any given cycle that can be used to build a recruiting class.

 

[engie]

Thanks, I didn't know how the draft works. Nice diatribe on the false pretense that it adversely affects us in comparison to other schools though...

You can say whatever you want to downplay how Canni was recruiting. But go look at those class rankings and who surrounds us in those rankings. Even though Cohen was an excellent recruiter, if you think he was recruiting anywhere near the level that Canni was, I really don't know what to tell you, other than it's obvious you never followed it very closely. And to be fair, he never coached with the deck stacked in his favor how Canni(and the next hire) had. Canni was recruiting at ~ the O'Sullivan/Corbin level. Obviously we were going to get hammered in the draft just like every single one of those schools do every single year. The deal is just to get a couple of them into school -- and we were going to -- strictly off the percentages and the high numbers of those guys that we were inking.

 

[HumpDawgy]

[h=2]RUMOR: Butch to State[/h]

Helmet Head is coming to State?

 

[blacklistedbully]

And another thing, Cann had better connections with MLB scouts who could give him a better idea which top recruits might be more likely to actually make it to campus vs opting to go pro out of HS.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I doubt the validity of the news but I like Butch. He's a good guy and would be great especially if he made the right assistant hires.

 

[Go Budaw]

Thanks, I didn't know how the draft works. Nice diatribe on the false pretense that it adversely affects us in comparison to other schools though...

You can say whatever you want to downplay how Canni was recruiting. But go look at those class rankings and who surrounds us in those rankings. Even though Cohen was an excellent recruiter, if you think he was recruiting anywhere near the level that Canni was, I really don't know what to tell you, other than it's obvious you never followed it very closely. And to be fair, he never coached with the deck stacked in his favor how Canni(and the next hire) had. Canni was recruiting at ~ the O'Sullivan/Corbin level. Obviously we were going to get hammered in the draft just like every single one of those schools do every single year. The deal is just to get a couple of them into school -- and we were going to -- strictly off the percentages and the high numbers of those guys that we were inking.

It does adversely affect us compared to other schools. What you don’t seem to get is that these kids really don’t care nearly as much about the stadium and the “atmosphere” as the fans do, or as much as the fans want them to. Yeah, it helps to have a nice place to play. But its a drop in the bucket conpared to getting a full ride vs. a 25% or 50% scholarship.

A prime example is Vandy. Vandy has, hands down, the absolute worst stadium and facilities in the SEC. But they have been the most elite SEC recruiter over the past 15 years or so because of their private scholarship situation. LSU has the lottery helping them out. But what both of them really have that we don’t is a hell of a lot of talent in close proximity that they can sell their respective programs to that will pay even if they don’t get aid. So, in summary, Cohen never did have the deck stacked in his favor. Neither did Cann, and neither will our next coach. And Cann hardly deserves to be given this Orgeron-esque recruiting guru title just for some 9th and 10th graders that he has committed. A lot of those kids would have gotten hurt, decommitted, not panned out, etc. It’s just silly how quickly this legend developed based on no proven data.