LOCKED - Question for the Jacksonites
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I'm just gonna leave this here for those who think the baseball stadium is doing wonders for Pearl's pocketbook. The bonds have to be paid.
https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2016-atlanta-braves-stadium/
I agree that the Braves played Pearl, but disagree that a stadium can't jumpstart development. The Braves are notorious for this type of thing, look what they did in Atlanta, they always take the handout. Done right, this could have been great for Jackson.
It's not just the Braves. It's the myth of the government funded sports stadium being a good thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twmSsIStmIk
I'd say any assertion that a "problem", singular, is mostly responsible for what is wrong with Jackson is not going to be accurate. Unfortunately that has to be a component, but it's far deeper and wider than that at the core...
I've said this and i'll say it again. The biggest problem with Jackson is no one hasn been proud to say they are from Jackson in a while and instead of fighting to make it better you had crappy leadership and no pride in their city. Everyone moved out instead of getting involved. Thus you have massive suburban sprawl and people complaining about not getting to another suburb quickly.
Yeah I have done a little research on this. The anti-stadium folks tout this, but there are plenty of examples of where it helped. You can't just blanket label this deal. Devil is always in the details.
I work in Fondren
I like the City. But it needs the kind of help I don't think it can provide for itself at this point. The tax base isn't there. There is a lot going on, some private investment. A lot is State investment. The expansion of UMMC is great for the city. But to get the money from State/Feds to fix things as needed the City is going to have to give up some control. Recently it has shown some willingness to do that, i.e. the Capitol Complex deal.
Fondren and the District are very positive developments. I eat at Saltine/Babalu/Walker's/Pig n Pint at least once a week. Cool shops etc... Downtown is lagging still. The Two Museums is awesome though, got to capitalize.
There is a ton of potential, and some positives, but there is still a whole lot to be done.
I like the City. But it needs the kind of help I don't think it can provide for itself at this point. The tax base isn't there. There is a lot going on, some private investment. A lot is State investment. The expansion of UMMC is great for the city. But to get the money from State/Feds to fix things as needed the City is going to have to give up some control. Recently it has shown some willingness to do that, i.e. the Capitol Complex deal.
Fondren and the District are very positive developments. I eat at Saltine/Babalu/Walker's/Pig n Pint at least once a week. Cool shops etc... Downtown is lagging still. The Two Museums is awesome though, got to capitalize.
There is a ton of potential, and some positives, but there is still a whole lot to be done.
I'd like to see a few of these examples. I suspect they're the ones where the taxpayer participation in the project was a pretty minor part of the total project.
The same thing is true with public schools throughout the state. Many, many families with an economic choice moved out of municipal public schools and have gone to suburban public, county, parochial, or private schools. I'm convinced that our municipal public schools will not improve until parents who are in involved in their children's education take their children back to the municipal public schools.
I believe: MS will continue to experience "brain drain" and economic decline if our cities and towns continue to decline;
Our cities and towns will continue to decline if their public schools continue to deteriorate; and,
Our cities' and towns' public schools will continue to deteriorate if parents continue to pull out of their cities' and towns' public schools.
Parents are going to make the difference in the future of MS.
Cleveland Indians baseball stadium, and Birmingham Barons. You would be correct on the Indians. I am not sure how Birmingham paid for their stadium but I know it's been absolutely great for redevelopment of that area.
Local economy kills the towns well before the public school flight does. Supporting the public schools are just a way to slow that bleeding and keep the town afloat so it can remain viable and hopefully bring in another economic engine.
That formula does not work in Jackson, where there are suburbs around where you can move and do public, or just pay for private. Too many options. Not to mention the rise of home schooling. This is a toothpaste-out-of-the-tube deal.
The ridiculous thing here is that just ONE month ago, the leader of the free world was in Jackson. Said leader, who has already delivered on a number of campaign promises, also has
a campaign promise related to rehabbing dilapidated infrastructure.
PERFECT time for you (Lumumba), as the Mayor, to rub elbows and beg for funding, right?
What's he (Lumumba) do, instead?
Grandstands and plays the same game that Jackson's leadership has been playing for the last 25+ years. The same game that has the city in the shape it's in now.
Until this idea of "getting back at whitey" is erased, things won't move forward.
I'm open to having my mind changed, but without evidence it's hard to debate. Pearl's bonds have been downgraded by rating agencies to junk status because revenue generated from sources that were to pay Pearl's portion of the stadium costs are not nearly enough. That is a bad thing for Pearl.
Jackson is about 80% black and within the black population out of wedlock births are over 80%. While I really appreciate the passion for the town some of you have I can assure you that until this changes drastically, you are fighting a losing battle. Period.
Well I live in Gawd’s country, aka Rankin County, but I work in a large private hospital , located on State Street and slap dab down the street from city hall. I come down Riverside everyday at about 15 Miles an hour because anything faster will wreck your ****. I have looked at the same sheared off light pole at the intersection of Riverside and State Street for 2 months now. A light pole attached to power lines and hanging precariously at a 45 Degree angle to the sidewalk right under it. Right at the entrance to Millsaps, which many consider, the best college in the state of Mississippi. No warning tape. No anything to alarm the passer by on the sidewalk that there is a light pole about to fall on their head. So even though I do not call Jackson my home, I thank God everyday I leave work that I don’t have to spend the night there.
So yeah, I have an adult job that requires me not to be under the influence of drugs while at work. It also affords menthe luxury of living where I want to. And Jackson isn’t a place I would ever call home. But that doesn’t mean the 12+ hours per day I spend there doesn’t give me the right to complain about the ******** conditions of the place I have to go to work in.
It also doesn’t mean all the whites in Flowood moving back to Jackson will make the majority stop voting in fat 17’ing pieces of **** like Kenneth Stokes.
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One possible reason is the proximity to I-20 or available parcel space at the time, frontage and visibility.
Yes, I agree a baseball stadium could’ve had some small economic impact, but the best place for those businesses is Pearl, according to some people. Its about space man.
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Those places are
there bc of what putting the stadium started.
Jackson leadership turned it down (and many other businesses) bc it didn't fit their vision(s).
there bc of what putting the stadium started.
Jackson leadership turned it down (and many other businesses) bc it didn't fit their vision(s).
I don't know a thing about Jackson other than what I read here. The last time I was there was about 15 years ago and that was just driving through on I-55 going from Memphis to New Orleans. I wasn't impressed or repulsed ... just another town. But from what I read here it's a terrible place ... big city crime in a small-to-mid-sized town.
To do as you asked ... I live in Madison, Alabama. It's suburb of Huntsville with about 50,000 residents. There's virtually no crime here ... police concentrate on handing out speeding tickets. Family income is very high, and it shows. The town has some of the best public schools in the state. Having a degree from MSU (or really, any other reputable college) has allowed me to live here, and just based on postings, I would never live in Jackson, and probably wouldn't even visit, especially after dark.
The brain drain as you called it has been going on across Mississippi for years because Jackson and it’s suburbs, along with a few other places in the state have stolen money from the rural areas around the state and left towns high and dry. Jackson and the other metro areas have everything required for big companies to move into their areas, where smaller towns that haven’t gotten promised roads and other infrastructure will never get a chance for those jobs.
Towns need tax bases, therefore they need jobs.
If you want to get manufacturers into your town they have requirements.
1. You must have 4 lane road access.
2. You must be within an hour of a big airport.
3. You must have Community College for training programs within 30 mins.
4. Railroad.
5. You must be willing to let them operate land tax free for usually 25 years.
The new plant in Clinton will add huge amounts of money into all of Jackson and its suburbs. Do the math, 2500 jobs at only 35000 is over 87 million in wages annually. If people from over 40 miles away get hired they will end up moving closer this sucking more people out of rural towns.
I personally moved home after 20 years out of state and opened a small business and it makes me sick watching the piss poor management of our state. But hearing anyone complain about Jackson is an even bigger joke when all the advantages are there. And all of you guys within 20 miles of the capital are from Jackson no matter which burb you live in.
As I said earlier, until the State starts finishing projects from 30+ years ago no more money should be spent of state money anywhere around Jackson.
The problem with these plants, like Nissan, The tire plant in Clinton and even the clean coal plant in Kemper Countynis not a shortage of skilled workers. It’s a shortage of skilled workers who can pass a drug test.
And the ones who flush enough to juuuust slip past the drug test then are looking for the first shot at worker’s comp!
And the ones who flush enough to juuuust slip past the drug test then are looking for the first shot at worker’s comp!
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you forgot 1.a. on your list. a manufacturer wants good public schools for their employees that will be moving into that area to send their kids to.
The failing public school system in MS will be the downfall of this state. And the parents, legislature, and Dept of Ed is watching it go down the toilet, like a kid watching their toy float down a sewer drain. No plan to stop it. Serious manufacturing and economic development isn't going to consider MS until that problem is fixed. You'll have the occational manufacturer looking for a captive work force that'll come in every 10 or 15 yrs, but it won't be a influx of manufacturing until the public education system in this state is fixed. Most of that "fixing" starts at home. My mother-in-law was a first grade teacher for 27 years. The year before she retired, one of her students came in talking about seeing his mom in the bed at their house with two men, like it was no big deal. Last year, I was doing some work at a national retail chain store in Jackson, and a lady came in with what looked to be about a 4 year old little boy with her. The little boy was very meek, minding his own business, not acting up, and just following along behind his mom. Apparently he wasn't walking fast enough for her tastes, and she turned around and said, "boy, bring yo muh 17'ing black *** up he'uh, fore I beat yo *** right he'uh in dis sto". The little boy, with his hands in his pockets with his head down, walked on up faster behind his mother. I felt so sorry for the boy, because he doesn't have a chance in hell of escaping being decensitized to that behavior and violence. He seemed so innocent and like a good little kid that day.
The failing public school system in MS will be the downfall of this state. And the parents, legislature, and Dept of Ed is watching it go down the toilet, like a kid watching their toy float down a sewer drain. No plan to stop it. Serious manufacturing and economic development isn't going to consider MS until that problem is fixed. You'll have the occational manufacturer looking for a captive work force that'll come in every 10 or 15 yrs, but it won't be a influx of manufacturing until the public education system in this state is fixed. Most of that "fixing" starts at home. My mother-in-law was a first grade teacher for 27 years. The year before she retired, one of her students came in talking about seeing his mom in the bed at their house with two men, like it was no big deal. Last year, I was doing some work at a national retail chain store in Jackson, and a lady came in with what looked to be about a 4 year old little boy with her. The little boy was very meek, minding his own business, not acting up, and just following along behind his mom. Apparently he wasn't walking fast enough for her tastes, and she turned around and said, "boy, bring yo muh 17'ing black *** up he'uh, fore I beat yo *** right he'uh in dis sto". The little boy, with his hands in his pockets with his head down, walked on up faster behind his mother. I felt so sorry for the boy, because he doesn't have a chance in hell of escaping being decensitized to that behavior and violence. He seemed so innocent and like a good little kid that day.
Brother, no offense, but you are clueless. The move to urban areas is happening all over the country, it is far from a Jackson Metro problem. The brain drain is from instate to out of state.
I don't like that trend, but it is what it is. Hopefully rural America will make a comeback, that's my hope for sure.
Get outside the state for a while, man. The infighting Mississippi people do is only among people who do not see what an uphill battle the whole state is facing.
I don't like that trend, but it is what it is. Hopefully rural America will make a comeback, that's my hope for sure.
You are blaming Jackson for "stealing" resources from rural Mississippi? What cave are you living in?
You are wrong right off the bat. How are you going to have a tax base if there is no income stream in a town?
Get outside the state for a while, man. The infighting Mississippi people do is only among people who do not see what an uphill battle the whole state is facing.
I remember living in Mississippi and all of the hype about a new "plant." 25, 250, 2500 jobs coming to you name it town MS. Those plants are great for creating a bunch of blue collar jobs with a handful of white collar management types.
Not bad for Grenada or Columbus. In your biggest metro area like Jackson you need more white collar jobs. I was shocked to see that 0 Fortune 500 companies are located in Mississippi. Not even any in the top 750. Only 2 out of the Top 1000.
HQ's bring in 250-2500 six figure jobs. These create local real estate booms to build million dollar homes. Small businesses grow. Tech jobs have the same effect, but I am not going to pretend that Jackson is anywhere near drawing tech jobs.
Not bad for Grenada or Columbus. In your biggest metro area like Jackson you need more white collar jobs. I was shocked to see that 0 Fortune 500 companies are located in Mississippi. Not even any in the top 750. Only 2 out of the Top 1000.
HQ's bring in 250-2500 six figure jobs. These create local real estate booms to build million dollar homes. Small businesses grow. Tech jobs have the same effect, but I am not going to pretend that Jackson is anywhere near drawing tech jobs.
I saw a news blurb this morning that much like Amazon, Apple is planning on building a new corporate office somewhere in the US (may be a result of vastly reduced corporate taxation?). The site would employ around 25,000 "customer service" employees. Not sure if that means it's a phone center or what, but I wouldn't think it would be strictly that. It might be something Mississippi could go after. I'm sure north Alabama will try to get it. Don't know what their criteria are ... Amazon only wanted large metros, and neither Mississippi or Alabama really has one of those.
I couldn't help but laugh. How would you like to call customer service at Apple and get one of locals on the phone to help with your problem ?
Yeah, that would be an experience .... It's got to be something other than a call center though.
There's a Verizon call center here that hired locals and it seems to be working out OK.
I drive in and out of Memphis every day. I know **** holes. Jackson is a **** hole. I wish it wasn't because I have a lot of fond memories of the area and it's been such a big part of my life. But for many reasons that have been well-articulated here, Jackson is on the proverbial treadmill that is going too fast for them to keep up. Crime is out of control, the infrastructure is crumbling, the tax base is gone, and the leadership is corrupt. Damn, what a recipe for disaster.
I promise, I'll never ***** about the Indian/Pakistani customer service reps again.
My grandmother in Mississippi calls the remote control to the television the "TV Box." Not the set itself, not the set top box from the cable company, but the 17ing remote.... I really want her to work in customer support at Apple.
It's a vicious cycle, though. If you're a fortune 500 company and you're looking for a place to relocate, you're looking for a place with solid infrastructure and leadership. You're looking for a place that's economically ripe to be able to offer tax incentives for you. And you're looking for a pool of talent you can recruit from to staff with. The Jackson area just isn't attractive.
The local economy hasn't killed Jackson. People are still commuting in to Jackson to work. There are a lot of problems with jackson, but the biggest is that if you have kids and want to live in Jackson, you are paying $14k per year per kid for school or you are doing a reverse commute to take your kids somewhere that still costs probably $6k or $7k. People want to live in cities now. But you want people to pay higher taxes for worse services more crime, and then they're looking at $28k a year in school costs if they have two kids and don't want to drive 30 minutes to take their kid to school somewhere outside of the city. People would put with the other things, but very few people are rolling enough that stroking a $30k check each year for school won't be a deciding factor. There are people that can do it, but not nearly enough people to turn Jackson around.
If there was an affordable option for school, you would probably see a lot of gentrification as people chose to live closer to work, which would at least provide a base from which you could start to address other problems.
Rural areas are not struggling because Jackson is "stealing" money. Rural areas everywhere are struggling because we are in a knowledge economy and population density is actually valuable for companies. What would be best for the rural areas on our state would be for Jackson to not be dysfunctional and to be able to attractive enough to keep people in the state. The better the Jackson MSA, the more of a shot rural areas will have to compete for suppliers of companies in and around Jackson. The problem is that Jackson is dysfunctional and a relative **** hole, even compared to other southeastern cities, and the only other area in the state that could be an economic driver (the Coast) doesn't quite have teh population and isn't quite dense enough, plus even if it were, a lot of the positive spillover effects would go into LA and AL, and of course would have a limited reach north.
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