Howland Postgame Presser

[She Mate Me]

I know this won't change any minds in the "Can't Coach" crowd, but this doesn't sound to me like a guy who doesn't get it. He's specifically asked about and answers a question regarding the 1-3-1. His overall conclusion is what many of us know. You can't shoot 3's and FT's like that against a decent team on the road and win very often...

 

[KurtRambis4]

The fact that people are

evening questioning his ability to coach anymore is comical.

It's good, in a sense, that it allows you to identify the idiots, easily.

 

[thf24]

The problem is that the less-educated among us are mistaking an ugly offense for a bad one. Sorry folks if you wanted a pretty, flowing college basketball offense; that's not Ben Howland. A small amount of research when he was hired would have told you that. The bottom line is that a pretty offense can't score points any better than an ugly one if shots aren't falling. If Q, Peters, and Carter were shooting the same 3pt% to this point thus far that they did last year, we'd undoubtedly be 14-1, quite possibly 15-0.

 

[She Mate Me]

Certainly 14-1.

In my mind Howland's style is right for MSU. We're unlikely to get a stable of pretty offensive players in this state and region with our recruiting competition and the type of HS players available. We can get a few and then we can get great athletes and teach them to be great defenders. That can be a winning combo.

The Final Four team had two smooth, flowing offensive players and some bruisers who knew how to defend, rebound and score when called on.

 

[maroonmania]

The problem is that the less-educated among us are mistaking an ugly offense for a bad one. Sorry folks if you wanted a pretty, flowing college basketball offense; that's not Ben Howland. A small amount of research when he was hired would have told you that. The bottom line is that a pretty offense can't score points any better than an ugly one if shots aren't falling. If Q, Peters, and Carter were shooting the same 3pt% to this point thus far that they did last year, we'd undoubtedly be 14-1, quite possibly 15-0.

I'm not questioning Howland's coaching but I am questioning if the staff is doing something that is affecting the shooting of several of our players? We shouldn't see our players' shooting ability regress like this. Are we trying to adjust some players' shooting mechanics? I've heard we may be using some type of "arc machine" to supposedly assist players with their shot? Changing a guy's shot in basketball is akin to changing a baseball player's swing. It can go very, very wrong.

 

[She Mate Me]

I'm not questioning Howland's coaching but I am questioning if the staff is doing something that is affecting the shooting of several of our players? We shouldn't see our players' shooting ability regress like this. Are we trying to adjust some players' shooting mechanics? I've heard we may be using some type of "arc machine" to supposedly assist players with their shot? Changing a guy's shot in basketball is akin to changing a baseball player's swing. It can go very, very wrong.

I'm definitely wondering. There's been a big shift in shooting percents in the wrong direction for sure. Maybe it reverses and we go nuts for a few games and get some big wins. I hope so.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

I'm definitely wondering. There's been a big shift in shooting percents in the wrong direction for sure. Maybe it reverses and we go nuts for a few games and get some big wins. I hope so.

I honestly think it is all mental with them. I think it will come around and we will win a few we are not supposed to. I also think we kick OM *** when they come to Starkville by double digits.

 

[Kojak.sixpack]

I'm just surprised we dont run more since our shooting is so porous. I know that was not his style until his last year at UCLA, but I thought he had totally bought in to the tempo and that we were going to get a defensive rebound and sprint to the other basket. I think we ran more in Year 1 than we do now.

 

[MSUDC11]

I think it’s OK to think that Howland is a smart basketball mind but still be really dissatisfied with his results on the court so far. 14-24 in conference play and 1-4 against Ole Miss (not even good Ole Miss teams) speaks for itself.

 

[engie]

Are people really questioning his coaching ability? I haven't seen that -- but I have been avoiding most of the threads it could have been stated in.

- I think it's reasonable to question the regression of our players. Who has gotten notably better? No doubt Howland has earned the benefit of the doubt. I am less sure on that about his country club of assistants at this point however. We should be getting better somewhere at an identifiable spot if any of those guys are lighting the woods on fire coaching...

- Player evals. We've recruited in an almost Hugh Freeze type of approach it seems to me. A bunch of high 4* guys that actually aren't high 4* guys at all. We aren't winning any evaluation contests on unrecruited and under-ranked guys that Howland has made his career and name with and that every elite MSU team in history has had a couple of. Maybe those guys are rare in this area now?

- Resting in recruiting instead of burning the trail up to fix this as immediately as possible. We just decided to pursue another 5 after Herard left. That's crazy to me. We should have been burning the trail up trying to upgrade talent given where we actually are in year 3. We only have a couple of guys on this roster that wouldn't have been process candidates for the entire Stans tenure. I want to see that part come back. I still think this team is in desperate need of another 5 and another point guard. Let the numbers work themselves out.

These are IMO legitimate concerns. They are just concerns though. I think anyone piping for major change at this point is setting themselves up to look like fools in the same way they did with Cohen when the rebuild took longer than we hoped. Basketball is going through the same thing and it is taking longer than anyone had hoped. Next year will be do or die time though IMO....

 

[CochiseCowbell]

Cal Ripken Jr had multiple batting stances over a long hall of fame career.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Who's satisfied

with where we've been the last 5 years?

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

evening questioning his ability to coach anymore is comical.

It's good, in a sense, that it allows you to identify the idiots, easily.

Then why can’t he put a foot in an *** and tell thrcnect one of you dickwads that jacks up a 3 ten feet behind the line rides the bench the rest of the game.

 

[She Mate Me]

I think it’s OK to think that Howland is a smart basketball mind but still be really dissatisfied with his results on the court so far. 14-24 in conference play and 1-4 against Ole Miss (not even good Ole Miss teams) speaks for itself.

I think it's ok to an extent as well.

I guess we differ because I'm not really dissatisfied with his results.

You quote two stats and say they speak for themselves. Do they?

He took over a team for the 2016 season that finished 2015 at 12-19, 6-12 SEC and RPI #216 and 2014 at 14-19, 3-15 SEC (finishing with 13 straight SEC losses, 10 by double digits) and RPI #239. State had 4 total wins over teams finishing RPI Top 100 in 3 years under Ray with the best being LSU at home at RPI #65. Two of those 4 wins were over Ole Miss, as so many on here will point out. It's possible that home state pride and the only decent crowd the team saw at home all year might have been more vital than Ray's rival coaching ability, but who knows? I chose not to delve deeply into the kind of losses MSU sustained under Ray, but I'll just mention we lost to RPI #328 Alabama A&M at home. This is what Howland is following.

2016 should just be a freebie for Howland and I'm sure the majority on this board gave him that at the time. We still finished improved with a 7-11 SEC record and RPI #153 and 4 Top 100 RPI wins (matching the Ray 3 year total). Also had a number of 6 pt and under SEC losses including a 1 pt and a 2 pt loss to #18 TAMU.

2017 we lose the last of Ray's solid players and Malik Newman and we're very, very young. We lose a lot of close games (7 SEC games by 7 or less including by 7 to #2 UK) and finish 6-12 in the SEC and RPI #151 with 4 more RPI Top 100 wins. A good base to build on.

2018 and we are 13-2, 1-1 SEC with a #66 RPI, 3 Top 100 RPI wins and almost 4 (NDSU at 100 and SFA at 102) with a lot of opportunity in front of us.

As far as Ole Miss they have, not surprisingly, been clearly better than us the two Howland years before this one and that has produced a 1-3 record prior to Saturday's road loss. Is that really a surprising result?

I don't think your stats speak for themselves so I spoke for them. Tell me where I'm wrong.

 

[KurtRambis4]

Does anyone speak jive?*

*

 

[tired]

Then why can’t he put a foot in an *** and tell thrcnect one of you dickwads that jacks up a 3 ten feet behind the line rides the bench the rest of the game.

This guy..

 

[HumpDawgy]

Ben Howland is the head coach and the results are all his to own. What he did before here got him the job. What he does now will factor in on whether he keeps it.

 

[johnson86-1]

Certainly 14-1.

In my mind Howland's style is right for MSU. We're unlikely to get a stable of pretty offensive players in this state and region with our recruiting competition and the type of HS players available. We can get a few and then we can get great athletes and teach them to be great defenders. That can be a winning combo.

The Final Four team had two smooth, flowing offensive players and some bruisers who knew how to defend, rebound and score when called on.

You're seeling that team a little short. You had two smooth scorers, but Bullard was pretty smooth too (he was just powerful), and Dampier still put up a lot of points even if it wasn't smooth. Then whit hughes and bart hyche could both hit open shots.

 

[gymdawg.sixpack]

A high school coach would have gathered his team with 10mins to go and told them if we drive on every possession we win easily. Isnt that the most elementary of "good coaching" criteria?

 

[gymdawg.sixpack]

Untrue. Playing ugly vs um wins the game. 20 strait drives to the basket under 10mins snd we win. Would that have been pretty? No....but it would have equalled a win

 

[KurtRambis4]

So Howland knows less

about basketball than a high school coach?

 

[MSUDC11]

I’m less concerned with what our current record is than what I am with what our record may look like the rest of the way.

The ESPN BPI says we will be favored in only six games the rest of the year. If we go 7-11 in conference play in Year 3 under Howland, that’s a big disappointment. That was his conference record in Year 1 with Rick Ray’s players. We are going to have to pull off a couple of upsets and not have any bad home losses just to get to .500 in conference play.

Even at 19-12, we are not an NIT team if we have a losing record in league play. Not with our nonconference schedule.

 

[VegasDawg13]

Good points. However, as you say, he took over a team that had gone 6-10 in the SEC. He then proceeded to go 7-11 and 6-12 his first two years. If (and it's a big if) we only win the games we would currently be favored in (all home games except Auburn and UT), we will go 7-11 this season. So we need to over-perform the rest of the season compared to what we've shown so far. I think that's possible, but there is reason to be anxious about the direction of our program at this point.

 

[engie]

IIf we go 7-11 in conference play in Year 3 under Howland, that’s a big disappointment. That was his conference record in Year 1 with Rick Ray’s players.

This is faulty reasoning. It is NOT the same conference it was in year 1 of Rick Ray. It's not even a comparable place.

Rick Ray's first year - 4 bid league. 3 more NIT.
This season(Current Bracketology Projected) - 8 bid league, with an additional next 4 out.

This season projects to have more NCAA teams than Ray's first season had NIT and NCAA teams combined.

 

[She Mate Me]

Good points. However, as you say, he took over a team that had gone 6-10 in the SEC. He then proceeded to go 7-11 and 6-12 his first two years. If (and it's a big if) we only win the games we would currently be favored in (all home games except Auburn and UT), we will go 7-11 this season. So we need to over-perform the rest of the season compared to what we've shown so far. I think that's possible, but there is reason to be anxious about the direction of our program at this point.

Good points and I am anxious. I really hope they find the shooting stroke and over-perform the rest of the way. May not happen and as I've said elsewhere, he will rightly be on a pretty hot seat next year if we have another 7-11 or worse SEC record. That said, I think we are heading the right way and the prospect of trying to find a coach if Ben Howland actually fails here is frightening to me.

 

[She Mate Me]

I’m less concerned with what our current record is than what I am with what our record may look like the rest of the way.

The ESPN BPI says we will be favored in only six games the rest of the year. If we go 7-11 in conference play in Year 3 under Howland, that’s a big disappointment. That was his conference record in Year 1 with Rick Ray’s players. We are going to have to pull off a couple of upsets and not have any bad home losses just to get to .500 in conference play.

Even at 19-12, we are not an NIT team if we have a losing record in league play. Not with our nonconference schedule.

We've played two SEC games as underdogs and won one and nearly won both. Let this thing play out and maybe we will be pleasantly surprised.

 

[Shamoan]

its only year 3...he is a man, not a miracle worker.

 

[HumpDawgy]

I'm glad we are on the 10 year rebuild plan since it is......ya know......college basketball with 13 total schollys.

 

[engie]

I'm glad we are on the 10 year rebuild plan since it is......ya know......college basketball with 13 total schollys.

10 year rebuild huh?

Do you consider Frank Martin and Bruce Pearl terrible college coaches?

 

[HumpDawgy]

10 year rebuild huh?

Do you consider Frank Martin and Bruce Pearl terrible college coaches?

Let's see if you feel this way in 7 more years of losing to Andy 17n Kennedy.

 

[MSUDC11]

10 year rebuild huh?

Do you consider Frank Martin and Bruce Pearl terrible college coaches?

No, but both were certainly on the hot seat entering Year 4. That is where Howland will be if we aren’t in the NIT this season.

 

[She Mate Me]

No, but both were certainly on the hot seat entering Year 4. That is where Howland will be if we aren’t in the NIT this season.

And it will be deserved.

 

[engie]

Let's see if you feel this way in 7 more years of losing to Andy 17n Kennedy.

Sure thing sweetheart

 

[engie]

No, but both were certainly on the hot seat entering Year 4. That is where Howland will be if we aren’t in the NIT this season.

So what’s your point?

Where has anyone in the fan base said he gets two more freebies?

My point was that even with guys who have proven to be elite coaches multiple times along the way that rebuilds take a little longer in the SEC than 13 scholarship genius would have us believe. And appearances seem even longer when the conference is elite rather than a 3 bid shitshow.

 

[fishwater99]

Bring Back Stans***