Pinelake speaks (sort of)
- Thread starter DawgatAuburn
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Well first Freeze has to come clean on who the hoes were for. Then the tears of repentance can flow.
Guys, I'm afraid yall are missing the point. For him to honestly publicly repent he would probably have to actually repent for lining up hoes for recruits. That would go over like a turd in the punch bowl right about now. I think this thing is at checkmate for Hugh and the cult.
Christ scorned the accusers with "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"... calling out their hypocrisy.
But he also told the woman "Go and sin no more"... meaning she wasn't off the hook to go back to her lifestyle. He didn't mean that she was expected to become sinless perfection. But with forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness.
But he also told the woman "Go and sin no more"... meaning she wasn't off the hook to go back to her lifestyle. He didn't mean that she was expected to become sinless perfection. But with forgiveness comes the expectation that we will not continue in the same path of rebelliousness.
Again, not what I said. At no point did I say that every sin and bad behavior is based on how close one is to God. I have even gone out of my way to state that sometimes it is just based on bad choices. Not every sin or bad decision is because "the devil made me do it". Swaggert, Bakker, and Freeze may have sinned so spectacularly because the whole image was a sham to begin with and they were never as close to God as they made it appear. Regardless, all Satan can do is put something in our path or try to divert us to another path. We still make a choice of whether to go down that path or not.
I'm not sure how I could explain this any more clearly. Satan does put things into paths of Christians to discourage them or divert them away from their pursuit of God. I have witnessed this in my own life as well as the lives of others I care about. This effort of Satan does in some cases intensify when one is in a period of strong growth and pursuit of God to try and prevent this growth and pursuit of God. This does NOT mean that every bad behavior or sin is brought on by Satan knocking someone off of their pedestal. Sometimes we are just stupid and make bad choices. Sometimes the person who appeared to have it all together and had a great fall from grace was never that close to God to begin with and has made bad choices that are just now coming to light.
AlCoDog was right on with his mention of Screwtape Letters. That book directly deals with the topic that I'm trying to discuss here and is a great read that I would recommend to anyone.
I'm not sure how I could explain this any more clearly. Satan does put things into paths of Christians to discourage them or divert them away from their pursuit of God. I have witnessed this in my own life as well as the lives of others I care about. This effort of Satan does in some cases intensify when one is in a period of strong growth and pursuit of God to try and prevent this growth and pursuit of God. This does NOT mean that every bad behavior or sin is brought on by Satan knocking someone off of their pedestal. Sometimes we are just stupid and make bad choices. Sometimes the person who appeared to have it all together and had a great fall from grace was never that close to God to begin with and has made bad choices that are just now coming to light.
AlCoDog was right on with his mention of Screwtape Letters. That book directly deals with the topic that I'm trying to discuss here and is a great read that I would recommend to anyone.
I have found that nearly 100% of the time Christians use the word "satan" outside of a sermon it is to make an excuse for their bad behavior or the behaviors of people they like. Acting like Hugh had so much more temptation to call hookers than I do because he was so much closer to God is both asinine and insulting. I have seen no uptick in interest by "satan" as I have grown closer to God in my life. Freeze was a narcisist and a liar. He is in this position because he is a bad person. Blaming it on satan, the boogey man, or "poor choices" is ridiculous. Is Hugh saved? Not my call. Can he be forgiven? Absolutely. Should this excuse him from the consequences of his actions? Absolutely not. The rest is silly BS.
^^^ Strong take, ***. Accurate. The Accuser, Diabolos, Satanos, The Father of Lies, etc, etc, is not omniscient, omnipresent nor omnipotent. He is not the equal but opposite challenger of Yahweh. He is limited in knowledge, power and authority. He gets blamed for a lot of stuff, though. You make an Excellent point.
Fair point, but the scriptures specifically tell us we will not be tempted beyond what we can bear. We have responsibility AND culpability.
The Satan excuse is cringeworthy.
Yep. I tend to find quite the opposite. I actually grow more ashamed of the life I lead and try to do better. I realize I've got more false idols than I care to admit, and if you held the beatitudes up to my face like a mirror I'd look hideous.
Yep. I tend to find quite the opposite. I actually grow more ashamed of the life I lead and try to do better. I realize I've got more false idols than I care to admit, and if you held the beatitudes up to my face like a mirror I'd look hideous.
I agree and appreciate your response. Too many of my "Born Again" friends shout blasphemy if you suggest that there is work to do after being "saved".
We can't work our way into heaven but we can keep ourselves out if we don't do work.
It IS amazing that none of these so called 'good' Christians repent BEFORE they get caught. And if anyone dares to allude to their transgressions before they are exposed then that person is attacked and accused of persecuting a 'good' Christian.
"If conversion to Christianity makes no improvements in a man's outward actions...then I think we must suspect his 'conversion' was largely imaginary.
"Christ told us to judge by results. A tree is known by its fruit. When we Christians behave badly, or fail to behave well, we are making Christianity unbelievable to the outside world. Our careless lives set the outer world talking, and we give them grounds for talking in a way that throws doubt on Chrisitianity itself." - C.S. Lewis, "Mere Chrisitianity"
"If conversion to Christianity makes no improvements in a man's outward actions...then I think we must suspect his 'conversion' was largely imaginary.
"Christ told us to judge by results. A tree is known by its fruit. When we Christians behave badly, or fail to behave well, we are making Christianity unbelievable to the outside world. Our careless lives set the outer world talking, and we give them grounds for talking in a way that throws doubt on Chrisitianity itself." - C.S. Lewis, "Mere Chrisitianity"
What sin is it exactly that causes you to lose your salvation? Because if you can lose your salvation then every single one of us would have to get re-saved 100s of times a day. So which sin is it that causes us to lose our salvation? How do you know when you've lost your salvation? The Bible is clear that all sin is equal in the eyes of God. So any sin such as having a fleeting lustful thought about a woman, Coveting that new bass boat your neighbor just bought, or letting yourself get caught up in gossip causes the loss of salvation?
When King David had an affair he lost his salvation? When peter denied Christ he lost his salvation?
How cold you ever have the peace of God if you're always wondering if you've lost your salvation or not?
I think this explains a lot of the criticism of Pinelake and Southern Baptists. I would hope that Pinelake's response would show some remorse about being a willing dupe to push Freeze's brand knowing the issues surrounded with it.
It doesn't help to claim they were mislead. There is a quote from a conman (wish I could remember who) that basically says you can't con a mark if they are not operating out of greed at some level. I don't think Pinelake would have been misled if it hadn't been for the fact that they saw an opportunity to use Freeze to market their brand by lending him the credibility of the church to market his brand.
Just seems crazy to me that they would focus on reactions to Freeze's conduct rather than addressing their relationship with their members.
No, the bible is not clear on that and this is not a tenant of Christianity. Christianity basically holds that all sin is equal in that it separates us from the father, but that some sins are worse than other sins yet we aren't wise enough to list them in order. We do know, however, that looking upon a woman with lust in your heart is not equal to exterminating a million people.
This is more what I've been thinking about the last week, how you get polar opposite reactions from people that profess the same faith, and what it really means to be a Christian.
If Christianity is an institution where I can just do whatever I please only to be forgiven and "redeemed" every night when I say a 5 second prayer... only to willfully, intentionally do the same thing over the next day, then sign me up. Just doesn't make sense that one can be considered redeemed if he or she lives their entire life in a way that is opposite of Christian teaching and then says a 5 minute prayer on their deathbed professing to be a Christian just in case it all is all true.
The sin you speak of is to turn totally away from God. If you are concerned, then you most likely have not committed it.
If I read the Article about Pinelake correctly, it said they were a Southern Baptist congregation. That is not true. They are not affiliated with the SBC.
IT is a saying people create to make themselves feel better about their spirituality. The closer you are to God, the less temptations actually tempt you because they do begin to pale more and more in comparison to your increasing love for God. What is true that the more power you have, the greater the temptations and pressures are and if you are a pastor or take on a leadership role because of your deeper relationship, you will face more temptations and pressure. But it is still the temptations of power.
If anyone thinks that being one with Christ makes you exempt from sin, then you are wrong. Being saved means that you acknowledge you are unable to face sinless life alone. You can and will continue to sin, but being saved means that you know you messed up, ask for forgiveness, move on and remember what happened the next time you face it. I consider myself saved but would never think that I will not make mistakes and sin in the future. The trouble comes when you say you are saved but voluntarily continue to sin when you know it's wrong and don't care.
Hughie's problem was that he claimed he was above all other Christians in this, and that makes him a hypocrite as well.
Hughie's problem was that he claimed he was above all other Christians in this, and that makes him a hypocrite as well.
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This isn't necessarily true. I have a friend who confessed to his wife the Ashley Madison stuff, they rebuilt their relationship and then like 6 months later the list is made public and he was/is public scorned because of it. Just wanted to point out to be careful of saying "none of these"
Ol' Scratch is around, though. I think it was Adam & Eve who first let him get a foothold here on earth, and he's been hanging around tempting everybody and everything since. It works well on some people, not as much on others, but he's always around selling his stuff.
Yes, God wins in the end, but He gave us free will and people have to, you know, avoid temptation and sin in the meantime. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it.
Yes, God wins in the end, but He gave us free will and people have to, you know, avoid temptation and sin in the meantime. Maybe I'm oversimplifying it.