Pinelake speaks (sort of)

DawgatAuburn

All-Conference
Apr 25, 2006
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I've seen a few posts asking about Pinelake and Southern Baptists in general, which includes me. The Baptist Press published this yesterday which includes a prepared statement from Pinelake. I do wish they had talked to pastors who are not close friends or allies of Hugh, just to give it some balance. I don't necessarily think a non-OM pastor would have said much different, which would have made the message of repentance and forgiveness that much stronger IMO.

http://bpnews.net/49258/ole-miss-coach-resigns-amid-scandal-requests-prayer


Ole Miss coach resigns amid scandal, requests prayer

by David Roach, posted Monday, July 24, 2017 (17 hours ago)
Tags: Hugh FreezeUniversity of Mississippifootball



WAPT News screen capture

OXFORD, Miss. (BP) -- The forced resignation of Ole Miss football coach Hugh Freeze -- an outspoken follower of Jesus -- amid what the university described as "moral turpitude" has left believers disappointed and expressing hope for repentance.

"I truly believe that [Freeze] is a good man," said Mississippi pastor Clarence Cooper, a friend of Freeze's for two decades. "And he has been overtaken with a fault. In his text to me was, 'I love you. Please pray for me. Please stand by me and pray for my family.'"

Freeze, a regular speaker at churches and conferences whose Twitter account is filled with Christian references, resigned July 20 after the university discovered a "pattern of personal misconduct inconsistent with the standards we expect from the leader of our football team," Chancellor Jeff Vitter said according to the Jackson Clarion-Ledger.

According to media reports, Freeze's phone records indicate he placed a one-minute call to a female escort service from his university-issued cell phone.

Ole Miss did not reference any specific call, but athletic director Ross Bjork said a detailed examination of Freeze's phone records revealed "a concerning pattern" that would have triggered termination for "moral turpitude" had he not resigned. Media reports have not disclosed the specific conduct for which Freeze was forced to resign.

Freeze’s exit is unrelated to an NCAA investigation of Ole Miss for alleged rules violations, Sports Illustrated reported.

Cooper, pastor of Brandon (Miss.) Baptist Church, told Baptist Press Freeze seems to have demonstrated initial fruit of repentance. Freeze is seeking "to get his life back together again, get his mind clear and get things right between him and the Lord," Cooper said. A former Mississippi Baptist Convention president, Cooper said Freeze is not "a fake" when it comes to his Christianity.

"The closer a man is to God, the greater the temptations and the pressures are," Cooper said.

Pinelake Church, the multisite Southern Baptist congregation Freeze and his family attend, said it will help the Freezes through this difficult season of life.

"The Freeze family is a part of our Pinelake Church family," the church told BP in a statement. "We want to honor their privacy during this time. As a church, we are called to love and shepherd people from a biblical perspective, no matter their position. Our prayers are with the Freeze family."


Kenny Digby, executive director of Mississippi Baptists' Christian Action Commission, told BP Freeze committed a sin with significant consequences and needs spiritual restoration. "There is a party line out there that's just as wrong as it can be that there are no 'big' and 'little' sins," Digby said. "That's just not true ... When it comes to sanctification, different sins carry different consequences."

Sins like Freeze's "have greater consequences than other sins," Digby said. "Does that mean we're not going to forgive? No. Does that mean we're going to be judgmental and we're not willing to restore? No. We need to be willing to forgive and restore" a sinning believer to fellowship with God and other believers.

Digby added that "when we are public with our faith, which we should be, we need to understand there is a higher scrutiny."

Freeze's resignation has triggered both sympathetic and hostile reactions on social media.

Mo Baker, director of the Ole Miss Baptist Student Union, told BP believers should take care not to either excuse Freeze's actions or be judgmental.

"The tendency is to give a kneejerk reaction of either exceptionally leaning toward free grace or being extreme in our judgment and condemnation," Baker said. "The Christian community needs to be very cautious, first of all, because we don't have all the information. And second, whatever he was guilty of ... there needs to be evidence of repentance in order for grace to be fully given."
Freeze has spoken twice at the BSU, Baker said, noting the former coach has seemed in the past to live out his faith in an exemplary way.

The Ole Miss Fellowship of Christian Athletes told BP in a statement it is "praying for Hugh Freeze, his family and his former players during this difficult time. Coach Freeze has been a friend to FCA for many years, and the ministry respects his contributions to the game of football as well as his commitment to sharing his faith with the many he has impacted during his career."

Steve Mooneyham, director of missions for the Gulf Coast Baptist Association in Gulfport, Miss., said Freeze's misconduct has made for a "sad time" in Mississippi. A "mature" reaction to Freeze's sin is to "recognize the disappointment but ... also recognize the admonition of [Galatians] 6:1 to be honest about things [and] to move toward restoration," said Mooneyham, an 18-year season ticket holder for Ole Miss football. "To forgive is not to minimize the depth and the greatness of the sin," Mooneyham said. "... I want [deep guilt] to drive [Freeze] to the cross, because it's at the cross that we find a great love by a heavenly Father who loves us despite our faults, who gave His Son to save us from our faults and to redeem us."

In five seasons with Ole Miss, Freeze was 39-25, including a 2016 Sugar Bowl victory. He was featured in BP in 2013 when he baptized a family friend at North Oxford Baptist Church, where he was a member at the time.
 

AlCoDog

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Feb 27, 2008
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Can someone more familiar with such things explain this quote to me?

"The closer a man is to God, the greater the temptations and the pressures are," Cooper said
 

FreeDawg

Senior
Oct 6, 2010
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Pretty crazy the church felt the need to put out a statement before Freeze himself. That lets you know they grasp how big this is.
 

FreeDawg

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Oct 6, 2010
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Can someone more familiar with such things explain this quote to me?

"The closer a man is to God, the greater the temptations and the pressures are," Cooper said

I disagree with that quote fundamentally. That said, it's a microcosm of what's wrong in this ordeal. What he essentially said was Freeze is such a holy man, his temptations were greater. It's continuing to put the guy on a pedestal AND giving a cop out on the back end. How about personal responsibility?
 

Faustdog

All-Conference
Jun 4, 2007
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At least Jimmy Swaggart had the decency to make a public apology to all those he let down. Freeze let down his family, a team full of players, and an entire fanbase who defended him to the point of silliness, and Freeze has been MIA for nearly a week.
 

DerHntr

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Sep 18, 2007
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I disagree with that quote fundamentally. That said, it's a microcosm of what's wrong in this ordeal. What he essentially said was Freeze is such a holy man, his temptations were greater. It's continuing to put the guy on a pedestal AND giving a cop out on the back end. How about personal responsibility?

Could not have said it better. Poor poor Hugh. He's still a martyr to these people.
 

Xenomorph

All-American
Feb 15, 2007
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I stopped exactly there and came back to this thread. You gotta be kidding me that a pastor had the gall to say that. Would he tell a woman addicted to heroin that her temptation to use again will be even greater the closer she gets to Jesus. I am absolutely baffled by that quote.

The only way I can explain it is that he's still covering for Freeze by telling the masses.. You can tell how close he is with God because of how tempted he was to do the no-pants dance with hookers across the nation.
 

bulldognation

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Jan 26, 2004
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Second this. That statement about having "evidence of repentance before extending grace of forgiveness " is easily overlooked.
Otherwise you're simply excusing bad judgement and allowing it to persist.
 

Chesusdog

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May 2, 2006
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He'll go to Haiti for another two weeks. And on the third week he will rise again, reborn, but still remarkably a douchebag.
 

Xenomorph

All-American
Feb 15, 2007
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Just say it... With every phone call to another Hooker, Freeze grew closer to God.
 

drumrcraig

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Aug 22, 2012
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The point trying to be made is that the closer one is to God, the more Satan wants to bring that person down and separate them from God. Satan tries that much harder to pull that person down, so he throws more in that person's way and temps that person even more. If someone is far from God and willingly sinning, then Satan does not have to throw temptation at that person because the separation from God already exists.

It's not the same as saying that an alcoholic will automatically be more tempted to drink, because they grew closer to God or anything like that. Nature and our own bad choices still come into play. Not everything is because of God or Satan's interactions with our lives.

Now having said all that, one can debate on whether he was a willingly sinner or if Satan was actively trying to separate him from God, but there is truth to the original pastor's point.
 
Aug 29, 2004
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Second this. That statement about having "evidence of repentance before extending grace of forgiveness " is easily overlooked.
Otherwise you're simply excusing bad judgement and allowing it to persist.

Serious question.

How do you reconcile this statement.....there needs to be evidence of repentance in order for grace to be fully given

With...once saved always saved

 

seshomoru

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Apr 24, 2006
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I'd respect their stance a lot more if...

they came out and said this more about people who weren't rich white guys.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Hugh didn't have faith. He had a brand. The church was nothing more than a tool he used to get what he wanted. You've got to do some major theological gymnastics and throw out the sermon on the mount to even begin to explain to me how Hugh is a man of God. Hugh is the swine we shouldn't cast our pearls before. Let the pig lay in his own filth.
 

Southern Law Dawg

Sophomore
Aug 22, 2012
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it means at that church you don't worry about the new guy in church going after your wife much as you need to worry about the preacher doing it.

View attachment 7232

I interpret it as a prosperity gospel thing- some people believe that the more money you have, the more you are beloved by God. Along with that, the more money you have, the more awful things you could potentially do with it. Freeze couldn't afford all of those assumedly high end escorts without being the millionaire that he is.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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Jesus repeatedly said that you would know Christians by their fruits. Hugh's got a lot of rotten fruit, based on the number of times he and his players have been involved in scandals.
 

615dawg

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Jun 4, 2007
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I have never heard more negative stories about a church than Pinelake. Its a shame because they reach so many people in the state of Mississippi.

They put Hugh Freeze in the pulpit on a Sunday morning. That is irresponsible. I don't care if they had no idea - he's a football coach, not an ordained minister. It was a marketing ploy. I don't care if their pastor is a "big State fan," he will never receive my support and no Pinelake-affiliated ministry will either.
 

Xenomorph

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Feb 15, 2007
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So there's more thrown in the way of a small town Baptist minister (one of the good ones) than say... an alcohol and drug addicted prostitute in Las Vegas who's fighting to get his or her life back together?

Yeah... I'm not sure I agree with that.
 

Xenomorph

All-American
Feb 15, 2007
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But putting him in the pulpit helped win recruits.. recruits help win games... and just like the story says.. influential pastors in the state are season ticket holders at the Vaught. And season ticket holders like it when you win games.

Oh.. and he is a reverend. He baptized Touhy's son.
 
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Wizard.sixpack

Freshman
Sep 15, 2009
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If he has TRUE repentance. GREAT!! But if he has repentance because he got caught and he wants to save face and protect his image. NOPE! If his phone records weren't exposed it would be business as usual with him.
 

dawgdr

Redshirt
Feb 27, 2008
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When talking about needing to show
repentence before grace. Just remember. The prodigal came home because he was hungry. The Father did not care why. Grace is always there. Doesn't excuse his, mine, or anyone else's behavior. But always there. Brennan Manning much better at explainging than I will ever be.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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Exactly. It's amazing the number of people who suddenly "repent" just when they get caught. And, for the record, Hugh's made no statements at all about being sorry for his sins or repenting from them. So any public forgiveness is, at best, premature.
 

AlCoDog

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Feb 27, 2008
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Interesting take. This reminds me of "The Screwtape Letters" by CS Lewis. It's been several years since I read it. I'm going to go back and reread.
 

seshomoru

Junior
Apr 24, 2006
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What a theological cop out.

So basically the Hughs and Swaggarts of the world were just such good men of faith that the Devil came after them with everything he had? And how could a simple man resist such an attack right? That is some ******** theology.

MONEY and EGO were Hugh's gods. The Devil didn't have to work hard at all.
 

DerHntr

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Sep 18, 2007
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"If someone is far from God and willingly sinning, then Satan does not have to throw temptation at that person because the separation from God already exists."

What about the people not close to god who are not willingly sinning? Does Satan leave them alone?
 

drumrcraig

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2012
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That is not what I said at all. I even said that nature and our own choices come into play. So the alcohol and drug addicted prostitute is struggling putting their life back together because of their previous choices in lifestyle. Also, if they have also found God in the process, my original statement could still be true that Satan could be actively trying to keep them from turning their lives around. Nobody said this only applied to ministers and people who are holier-than-thou. I have witnessed this first hand with people of various levels of faith and pursuit of God.

So as I said before, Satan will actively try to prevent people from growing closer to God, or in your analogy turning their life around to God, by putting barriers and temptations in their path. However, as I also said, this is not always the case. Sometimes nature and our own choices have to do with the temptations we face. If we have previously led a life of drugs and alcohol, then those choices are going to make it difficult for us later to leave that lifestyle. If we are willingly calling escorts and hookers of our own doing, while pretending to be holier-than-thou publicly, then we are facing the repercussions of our choices, not the temptation of Satan trying to bring us down.
 

patdog

Heisman
May 28, 2007
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Pretty twisted logic. The conclusion this leads one to is the fact that Swaggert, Bakker, Freeze, etc. all sinned so spectacularly is proof of how close they were to God, because that's what brought on the intense temptation to sin.
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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Agreed, Freeze and Pine Lake were using each other to market themselves. I hate to feel that way...but I do.
 

thatsbaseball

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I would like to correct you slightly on that. Freeze used the pulpit to try to win recruits' mamas...he used hookers to win the recruits themselves.
 
Aug 29, 2004
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Grace is always there.

I agree completely. The question is....do we have to repent to make it effectual.

If you accept the Lord as your personal Savior you are "saved" So what happens when a week after being "saved" you commit a grievous sin. Like adultery.

My question is this....if you die before you repent of the adultery are you "saved"?
 

1msucub

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Oct 3, 2004
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Serious question.

How do you reconcile this statement.....there needs to be evidence of repentance in order for grace to be fully given

With...once saved always saved


You can't, as the Bible is clear that the "once saved, always saved" doctrine is false. You can lose your salvation as a result of your lifestyle not being in accordance with His commandments.

There needs to be repentance in order for forgiveness to be given, which is the point that i believe the BSU gentleman was making. We can't make blanket statements about forgiving someone unless they have shown a clear turning from whatever it is that they need forgiving of.