OT: I love know it all parents

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The Riddler

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Sep 4, 2016
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Earlier I was reading the post about a policy a public school had put in place that said parents basically couldn't check their children out after 3 pm unless in the case of an emergency or doctors appontment. I saw quite a few parents of children complaining about this is against the law or that this is my child by god no one tells me what to do with my child. As a teacher and a coach that has worked in public schools for many years this policy is something that is very common in pretty much every public school today.
My advice is if you feel that strongly about access to your child then home school them. The reason schools do this is because the most dangerous time of the day is pick up at the end of the day. As a principal now that is in charge of making sure students get to the buses safely around that time of day, trust me we need those policies. The parents complaining about this policy are the same ones that would go to the media or courts if this policy was not in place and something happened to their child. They would be the first ones to question the schools safety and policies for keeping their children safe.
Look take it from someone who knows it's hard these days to make every single parent happy with every single policy. Public schools, teachers, and principals are demonized for being lazy or stupid if the parents don't like something. Parents want perfection because after all we are talking about their darling perfect little babies. They don't want to pay for it in most cases because we will say our babies deserve the best ok then pay teachers and principals like you actually mean that. Parents will say I want my child to have the best but let a local community talk about raising funds to help schools that need it and watch what happens. Teachers are tired of hearing well teaching is a calling so the material value is not important. Tell that **** to a doctor and see what is said. I am not saying because of medical school they don't deserve more money. I am saying the way we talk about teachers and the way we treat them are two completely different things.
Last point to all the people on this board that think that teaching or administration is something that is easy or done by people that don't care. Go down to your local public school look at all the paperwork the average teacher does, talk to them about their hours, ask them how the ever changing laws dealing with public schools are impacting them, and finally ask them do they love their job. Not all will answer yes but I promise you will be amazed at the hours and work it takes these days to be a good a teacher. There are bad teachers or course just like there are bad mechanics or bad lawyers. These bad teachers make up a very a small part of the people getting up everyday going into a public school and trying their best to impact their students. I will get off my soap box now and I know this is a very long post. Next time you see a teacher realize that person is most likely putting in more hours than you for less pay. Also realize that the teacher can't raise your child for you. Thank you I am sure my post will get torn apart by people who have never stepped foot in a classroom.
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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I don't disagree with your assessment about the end of school days.

This isn't necessarily directed just at you, and maybe it's an unpopular opinion but... teachers are paid a fair wage. A quick google showed an average teacher salary in Mississippi of 46k. Do they work more than 40 hours some or even most weeks? Welcome to being paid salary. I know quite a few teachers, and none of them are doing jack **** work-related this week nor next, except for basketball coaches. And they had a week like than in the fall, and will have another one in the Spring. While some days are taken up by work, most get off how many weeks during the summer? Not too many jobs offer that, plus good-to-great benefits, along with good-to-great job security.

Is teaching disrespected as a profession? Sure. Sometimes, unfairly. Virtually all vocations are - except, like you mention, doctors.
 

Col. Forbin

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Oct 2, 2012
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Yes that is a very unpopular opinion. Coming from a spouse of a teacher, they are grossly underpaid. I'm not saying pay them 80-100k a year because of, like you said, the time off and benefits. But, they should start out at more than $28k a year. It takes a while to hit $46k with the $300/year raise they get.
 

The Riddler

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Sep 4, 2016
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Dorn
It sounds to me like you know some very bad teachers that are not at all committed to their jobs, no offense. Good teachers and by that I mean ones that take the job home with them put in far more than 40 hours a week. Principals and coaches put in far more hours than that. An example I will give you along with being a football coach I am also a principal my average day during the fall starts by getting to the school at 6 and then ends when I leave around 10 every night. The hours do get better in the spring when I get here at 6 and leave about 6 most days. Also coaches and principals along with most teachers have professional development days over weekends. This means Saturday usually 8 in the morning to at least 2 or 3 in the afternoon.
Again the teachers you know taking this week off are the ones that give teachers a bad name. I know far more that are teaching bell to bell and using this week to engage and educate children.
The summer hours are also something that is misunderstood as a coach or principal you don't have summers off. Most teachers either use the summers for advancing their education or getting ceu's to keep their licenses.
If I had a teacher under my watch that was taking this week off then they would be looking for another job in janurary and that is not to be an ******* most good principals I know would do the same.
The benefits and job security I will give you are pretty good.
 

The Riddler

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Great point col. most teachers in Mississippi start at 25 to 28 k. I am not saying pay us 100 either but most people don't understand the hours it takes to be a good teacher. It is like any other job some just show up to do the bare minimum and get a check but others want to actually impact their students. Theses are the teachers i defend.
 

aTotal360

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Nov 12, 2009
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It's hard to pay teachers what they deserve when administrators are paying themselves 10x what they deserve.
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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That's all fine and good, but this week and next are Christmas vacation. Here, at least.

I don't doubt principals and football coaches work more hours and/or have more responsibility, which is why they are generally paid more.
 

LawDawg97

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Sep 7, 2012
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No kidding. Sentence structure could use some professional development too. Hard to make your point when you tell us you are a former teacher and current principal and then write like that.
 

DerHntr

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Sep 18, 2007
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Yes that is a very unpopular opinion. Coming from a spouse of a teacher, they are grossly underpaid. I'm not saying pay them 80-100k a year because of, like you said, the time off and benefits. But, they should start out at more than $28k a year. It takes a while to hit $46k with the $300/year raise they get.

I'm not weighing in with an opinion. I just have a math observation. It would take 60 years to start at $28k and get to $46k with $300 a year raises.

That's longer than Ole Miss's 50 year drought of not winning back to back January 1st bowl games.
 

Shmuley

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Mar 6, 2008
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Question for you: Do we really need 162 school districts in Mississippi?
 

WutheringDawg

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I don't disagree with your assessment about the end of school days.


This isn't necessarily directed just at you, and maybe it's an unpopular opinion but... teachers are paid a fair wage. A quick google showed an average teacher salary in Mississippi of 46k. Do they work more than 40 hours some or even most weeks? Welcome to being paid salary. I know quite a few teachers, and none of them are doing jack **** work-related this week nor next, except for basketball coaches. And they had a week like than in the fall, and will have another one in the Spring. While some days are taken up by work, most get off how many weeks during the summer? Not too many jobs offer that, plus good-to-great benefits, along with good-to-great job security.

Is teaching disrespected as a profession? Sure. Sometimes, unfairly. Virtually all vocations are - except, like you mention, doctors.

46k average is a little misleading. Quickest route for a new teacher to get to this average is to work for ten years with a AAAA level certification. Which would mean you're teaching public school in MS with a doctoral degree. Doable, but that average is probably buoyed by a large number of aging teachers. An uneducated guess there though. Downstream effect of having very low pay towards the beginning of your career is that most teachers have to work second jobs during summer. They're usually not kicked back chillin- tough to get a number on percentages, but most teachers that I know have to moonlight during the summer. If not doing that, they're filling those days with PDs, or matriculating through grad school. As for the benefits, look into how maternity leave is handled in the teaching profession.
 

Col. Forbin

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Oct 2, 2012
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Exactly. Now 28 might be on the low end on the starting scales for teachers, but there is no way in hell that the average is 46,000. It takes most teachers,that just have a bachelors degree, 15-20 to hit that "average".(see post below)
 

The Riddler

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Sep 4, 2016
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Knew the grammar police would be out. I should not have typed so much but it's hard on a phone to make a passionate point for that I apologize. I just get fired up when people talk about teaching. When I get passionate I often forget to have the best grammar and for that I apologize. I hope my improper use of grammar does not take away from my points about what it really is like to be a modern teacher.
 

Uncle Ruckus

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Apr 1, 2011
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My wife teaches high school, coaches cross country, basketball and track. That's 730 to 530/630 Monday-Friday and she has very few Saturday's off. When she does have a Saturday off it's usually spent catching up on grading papers. She is new to the profession and doesn't make 46000. She works well over 60 hours a week and I can say that most people coaching so as well.
You don't know what you're talking about.
 

The Riddler

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Sep 4, 2016
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No we do not need that many school districts. Small communities around Mississippi do not want to give up their small country high school either. This is because it's likely a source of decent jobs and a sense of identity for the community. And what other job do you get to say well it's christmas I am not doing my job this week. If a teacher uses Christmas as an excuse not to do their job then they are probably not a very effective teacher anyway. I can't speak for all principals but I expect my staff to do their job each and everyday regardless of the time of year.
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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You're probably right that the average is skewed a bit by the high-end, would be interesting to see the median.

Also don't disagree that many do something productive beyond the teaching they are paid $___/year for, but couldn't it just as easily be said having the time to do that is another benefit?

I'm by no means putting down on the profession at all, without question parts of it suck. Merely suggesting the compensation isn't terribly out of line.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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I don't disagree with your assessment about the end of school days.

This isn't necessarily directed just at you, and maybe it's an unpopular opinion but... teachers are paid a fair wage. A quick google showed an average teacher salary in Mississippi of 46k. Do they work more than 40 hours some or even most weeks? Welcome to being paid salary. I know quite a few teachers, and none of them are doing jack **** work-related this week nor next, except for basketball coaches. And they had a week like than in the fall, and will have another one in the Spring. While some days are taken up by work, most get off how many weeks during the summer? Not too many jobs offer that, plus good-to-great benefits, along with good-to-great job security.

Is teaching disrespected as a profession? Sure. Sometimes, unfairly. Virtually all vocations are - except, like you mention, doctors.

46k MUST be heavily weighted by bloated leadership positions and the fact that we have a gazillion school systems with the complement of admin leadership position. It takes an eternity to make 46k as an actual teacher...
 

dorndawg

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Sep 10, 2012
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Not being a wiseass at all - your teachers work each and every day during Christmas Break?
 

bulldogcountry1

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Jun 4, 2007
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What sucks is that the teacher who has 10 years experience and does the minimum amount they can get away with makes more than the teacher with 9 years experience and puts everything they have into their job.

When it comes to teachers (elementary, at least), the more passionate they are, the less they make because they put so much of their own money back into their jobs because they love what they do.
 

Col. Forbin

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Oct 2, 2012
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Pascagoula-Gautier is the highest paying school district in the state due to their local supplement. It takes 8 years to hit $43,000. It takes 15 in Madison County.

That's a long time to hit a decent wage.
 

Carlton31698

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Mar 3, 2008
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http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/docs/school-financial-services/salary-schedule-for-fy17.pdf?sfvrsn=2

Salary schedule for this year.

Notice a teacher with a BS will take 24 years to reach $45,280 not counting any local stipend. starting salary is $34,390.

Teachers are under contract for 187 days the pay for those 187 days is divided up over 12 months. They are not under contract for the full year and anytime during the summer, or Christmas vacation teachers work they are working for free.
 

The Riddler

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Sep 4, 2016
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No of course not dorn. I am simply saying the days leading up to the Christmas break. Once they are off the clock do as you wish because it's not my place to say a word. Our teachers get done Thursday at 130. I expect them to work until that time.
 

grimedawg1

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Aug 25, 2012
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Below are links to the pay scale for the state and Madison schools. Each district has their own supplement to the minimum required by the state. I would guess Madison's would be pretty good compared to most in the state. The A designation is for a teacher with a bachelor's degree and the steps are years experience. After 10 years of experience, a teacher with a bachelor's degree makes slightly more than $40k in Madison county.

http://www.mde.k12.ms.us/docs/school-financial-services/salary-schedule-for-fy17.pdf?sfvrsn=2
http://www.madison-schools.com/cms/lib9/MS01001041/Centricity/Domain/29/Payscale 16-17.pdf

I am married to a teacher. She doesn't absolutely have to teach but does so because she enjoys making a difference in kids lives - and it does help as a second income. She will almost certainly quit when my last child graduates. People outside of the education system really don't have any idea what teachers have to tolerate. Her day officially begins when she has to be at school at 7:00. She has a twenty minute lunch with about 25 elementary school kids that require all manner of things - can't open this or that pouch, they spilled their drink, etc. For all manner of reasons, most days she doesn't even have a break to go to the bathroom. (What other job does not afford the ability to take a few minutes to go to the bathroom?) The day is officially over at 3:00. That is the end of 8 hours of almost no break, total on-call work. But, 3:00 also just marks the time when the test grading and lesson planning begins. She is often at work until 5:00 and then brings home papers to grade and lesson plans to write. Then, there are parent meetings, after school functions, and all manner of things that occur outside of regular hours.

People like yourself often cite summers as time off. This is a little misleading and certainly decreasing over time. Teachers officially reported back August 1 this year. But, preparation begins in early July and builds in intensity throughout the month of July - with meetings and required training that has to be attended. Incrementally, the difference between another job and teaching is becoming increasingly small.

I definitely think that, in observing my wife and others, that teachers are underpaid in general. If the state makes a policy decision to continue to pay similarly to what it has paid in the past, it will become increasingly hard to put a competent teacher in every class - especially in higher level science and math classes at the high school level. Like any other good or service, the state gets what it pays for.
 
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dorndawg

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Looks like Madison County's supplement is $1900 (which was actually shockingly low), which gets a teacher to just shy of the average in 10 years.

I have no doubt that parts of being a teacher suck, and there are plenty who go above and beyond. Show me a pro-public education candidate or school bond issue, I'm probably voting for them/it. I'm merely saying the pay isn't grossly out of line.

Your last sentence is spot-on.
 

Hoover Dawg

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May 16, 2016
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My advice is if you feel that strongly about access to your child then home school them.
Public school system is broken, people should be home schooling anyway. Public schools are simply pumping out brain-washed drones, complete with beards, lumberjack shirts, skinny jeans, and their hands in their pockets.
 

grimedawg1

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Aug 25, 2012
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"which gets a teacher to just shy of the average in 10 years." Actually, it does not get the 10 year teacher to just shy of the average. It gets them to 13% below the average, or about $5,000 a year, or about $425 a month - which is maybe a car note or utility bills. It takes another 10 years to get to $45,800 for a total of 20 years. This is about like saying a $177,000 salary was just shy of the average salary of a $200,000 job.

I can't imagine the $46k number is accurate unless there are a ton of teachers with a lot of experience (which I think is actually the case) and there are a ton with advanced degrees - or some local districts have much higher supplements. The advanced degree will get a little more salary, but there is often not quite a financial pay off for that master's degree that may cost $20-$30k to obtain.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "grossly out of line." I think most people that have a bachelor's degree that put in 50-60 hours a week after 20 years in a profession might like to think they would get a salary greater than $45,800. And, the time off does not make up for close to that amount of work. (50 hours per week times 38 weeks = 1,900 hours a year; 40 hours per week times 50 weeks = 2,000 a year)
 

dorndawg

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For the third time in the thread, the average is about $43k. So, yes, "a little over $40k" plus $1900 is just shy of the average.

Also, I know VERY few folks in other salaried professions who work 40 hours. The national average is 49, which would be 2,450 hours a year at 50 weeks, or just shy of 46 hours a month more. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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Col. Forbin

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The district stipend is included in the Madison County payroll scale. So, after 15 years a teacher would be at $43,352.
 
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