Yeah, not calling you out but how successful is that style of coaching? Wouldn’t you rather have a 3 attempt when the % is the same? Or a shot down low where you have a chance of being fouled?
THIRTY midrange jumpers
- Thread starter Uk2k4
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Are you telling me, that Cal actually has a game plan, other than telling them to play street ball?
Each team is different: we shoot the same % from 3 as we do midrange jumpers right?I know a lot of us are just deadset on hating on Cal and will look for any reason to bash him, but maybe check out the stats below before you go deciding mid-range jumpers are the downfall of the season:
"The top eight teams in FG% between 10-16 feet all made the playoffs last season (Suns, Nets, Pelicans, Jazz, Mavericks, Bulls, Bucks, Hawks), as did 10 of the top 11 (Nuggets, Heat).
The top six teams in FG% from 16 feet to the 3-point line made the playoffs (Nets, Bulls, 76ers, Hawks, Suns, Nuggets) and five of the top six teams in field goal attempt percentage from that distance made the playoffs (Bulls, Raptors, Nets, Hawks, Suns).
We’re seeing something of a shift in the NBA, where the mid-range jumper is making a comeback. Because that area of the floor is often neglected by opposing defenses, some teams are scheming to create those open shots.
When everybody is zigging, somebody should be zagging. Forcing teams to defend the mid-range takes them out of their normal defense. As long as you have the personnel to make those shots, it can be a viable offensive strategy."
Return of the NBA's mid-range jumper: What is the betting impact?
SeasonPrep: Adam Burke explains why the jumper has returned in the NBA, and takes a look at the betting impact.
www.vsin.com
Rupp was absolutely rocking that day, manhandled a pretty good team. RP told Mercer pregame that the whole world thought Thomas was better.
Ok be real. You don't think the focal point of our offense is post-touches for Oscar? Assuming he has a decent matchup, of course. The ball is going to Oscar in the post, if that isn't clear to you - take the blinders off
What do you think the 2nd most prevalent focal point of our offense is? I'll await your response
The problem stems from Cal’s INABILITY to instill CONFIDENCE in his players. Missing Free Throws and open jumpers comes from DOUBT in a players mind. How many times do we see an opponent come into Rupp and make shots they don’t even ATTEMPT against other teams? Way too often. That comes from CONFIDENCE and a DESIRE to prove they are just as good as our McDonalds AA’s.
We used to have players that came in highly rated that WANTED to IMPROVE to a point where NOBODY was going to take what they had!!! Now our kids play SCARED. Cal has become a performance DEFLATOR!!!
We used to have players that came in highly rated that WANTED to IMPROVE to a point where NOBODY was going to take what they had!!! Now our kids play SCARED. Cal has become a performance DEFLATOR!!!
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You are right I think Wallace being out the second half maybe hurt us and of course Reeves did not shoot well.
Watch the clip of Cal last night that I posted above. The focal point should have been Oscar last night, especially when vandy had 5 guards in. But I guess he needs to showcase that he can hit the midrange jumper for the scouts.
I don't mind a debate, and your questions are valid. My take is pretty simple: I want the HIGHEST PERCENTAGE shot each and every possession. Why would I want Oscar to shoot an open 3 when I know he can consistently hit the 15-footer? Why do I want Oscar getting blocked for the 7th time in a game when I know he can consistently hit the 15-footer? If his defender doesn't want to closeout to 15-feet, then hit it. If he closes out, might have the shot-fake drive.
I'm not saying Cal should make it the EMPHASIS of the offense, and I'm one that thinks his floppy action and mover/blocker offense is beyond outdated. But the EMPHASIS of any offense should be to take the highest percentage shot you can get.
Let's not forget, teams just aren't going to let you get open layups. They aren't just gonna let you post the ball time and time again.
Smith, Robbins, Brown and Dia combined for 56 mins last night - I don't know how many possessions Vandy actually played with "5 guards".
Oscar went for 21 points and 20 rebs last night. The problem is Cason scored 6 points in 20 mins, Toppin 7 points in 37 mins, Livingston 8 points in 32 mins, and CJ 6 points in 28 mins. Supporting cast just didn't score, simple as that.
Cal just seems like a guy who's time has came and went and trying to hangon to a forgone conclusion. It happens all the time in coaching/politics
etc.... He just needs to cash his big check and get out before he embarrasses himself and uk more than he has. I'm fairly certain that he said at the begginning that uk was a 10 year job.
etc.... He just needs to cash his big check and get out before he embarrasses himself and uk more than he has. I'm fairly certain that he said at the begginning that uk was a 10 year job.
None of whom played more than 19 minutes. Robbins played 4. Smith plays more like a guard. They went small a lot, not sure what you were watching.
I get what you’re saying, but it really comes down to how you define “hit consistently”. If you play around with our season statistics here, you can see most of our guys including Oscar are in the neighborhood of 40% from that range. That’s not an impossible shot, and I’m ok with taking one occasionally to keep the defense honest, but the math starts to work against you pretty fast if you’re relying on a 40% chance at a 2 as a staple of your offense. It’s not a shot that Cal should be encouraging to the degree that he obviously is.
When our 3pt shooters are injured, and our PGs are injured and can't get the ball to the low post.. then you're kind of left with the mid-range game and leveraging Kentucky's size with guys like Toppin and Livingston.
I don't think this team's talent warrants a modern offense. At this point, I think we're just sticking with the things they CAN do, and stretching that as far as it can go.
I don't think this team's talent warrants a modern offense. At this point, I think we're just sticking with the things they CAN do, and stretching that as far as it can go.
I don't see your point? They rotated bigs on Oscar, they didn't need to play more than 19 mins. Kept the rotation going. I don't care if YOU think they play more like guards, they guarded Oscar. He went for 21 and 20, again, Oscar wasn't the problem
Fair points. Also let's not forget what kind of shot Vandy hit to beat us. Went for 3s on 2 of the final 3 possessions, Mid-range jumper is what won the game...
Again, I just don't give respect to an empty argument against mid-range jumpers. Teams don't just let you drive to the basket, teams don't just let you post the ball up willy nilly. If we had players to get to the rim, then we'd do it more often - ala Wall, Fox, Shai. But we don't. If we had dudes that could attack gaps and collapse to the defense to kick out to open shooters (do we have shooters?) then I'm sure we'd do that, but we don't.
If we had a more fluid offense, maybe we could create better opportunities. Take the highest percent shot possible, that's what basketball boils down to. Contested 3s, mismatches in the post, drives into traffic - none of those are better than an open 15-footer for someone who can hit it at 40%
It’s statically the worse shot in basketball. But I think too many ppl lump 13ft and in into the same category of 17-20ft.
I’ll take open 10 footers all day. But statistically ppl shoot about the same percentage from 18 as they do from 21 so you’re giving up a point. And they shoot about 20%worse from 18 that from 3-10ft.
Freethrow line and in floaters and pull-ups are fine imo. The occasional guard pulling up from 17 like Knight against OSU is a good shot in situations where you’re trying to get a clean look for a shooter. Toppin shoots or ok relatively but he’d be much better taking 1-2 hard power dribbles and getting into the 5-10 foot floater range or to the rim and using his athleticism to attack through contact and drawing fouls…Toppins SHOULD be the best finisher in the paint we have but he gets the dipsy dos and tries to finesse it w finger rolls and flip shots like he’s a 6’2 guard
Just for sh*ts and giggles, for the final 8 mins last night these were our offensive possessions. Please keep in mind, we were without Wallace for each of these
Oscar FTs
Oscar FTs
Reeves 3
Reeves TO
Oscar 15-footer
CJ 12-footer
Oscar FTs
Oscar TO passing out of post
Reeves 3
Oscar FTs
Toppin FTs
Toppin missed layup
Oscar dunk
Reeves FTs
Reeves TO
Oscar post bucket
Reeves 15-footer missed
We only attempted 3 mid-range shots in our final 17 possessions. Each of those from a player who can certainly knock down that shot. Personally, I wish we had more sets ready to go for the final 8 mins of the game. But we had several FTs, paint touches, and 3 bad TOs
Oscar FTs
Oscar FTs
Reeves 3
Reeves TO
Oscar 15-footer
CJ 12-footer
Oscar FTs
Oscar TO passing out of post
Reeves 3
Oscar FTs
Toppin FTs
Toppin missed layup
Oscar dunk
Reeves FTs
Reeves TO
Oscar post bucket
Reeves 15-footer missed
We only attempted 3 mid-range shots in our final 17 possessions. Each of those from a player who can certainly knock down that shot. Personally, I wish we had more sets ready to go for the final 8 mins of the game. But we had several FTs, paint touches, and 3 bad TOs
I'll say it again, it's just dumb to generalize the "mid-range" shot to all players. Some players EXCEL at that shot. I don't remember people complaining about Teague knocking down elbow jumpers. Andrew Harrison, Shai, Ulis, etc they all took those shots consistently. You want your players taking the best shot for them. Coaches get teams in trouble when they trying turning players into something their not.
Case and point: Cal kept trying to post up Skal. Some of you guys probably loved the fact that Cal kept posting up Skal, even though he was weak and sucked. But Skal could knock down the mid-range jumper and play away from the basket.
Play - AND SCHEME - to your players strengths.
He also knew what they wanted to do (as stated in his pregame conference where he said they will shoot 35 threes), yet every time they drove with the intent to kick it out for a three we collapsed on the driver and left shooters wide open. WTF
Yes, that were wide open and we collapsed every time. Look this is a very low IQ team, I mean Toppin, Reeves and Oscar more times than not make they wrong play on offense and don't even get me started on D, they are just terrible.
And why excellent shooters become sub-par % makers once under Cal’s tutelage.
It truly is mind boggling how much BETTER the players become at scoring once they leave here, whether it’s to the NBA or transferring to another school.
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If your team is not quick and adept with the ball, you cannot get to the rim.
If your team is not quick, you are easy to guard.
If your team is not quick, the players know it and realize their options are limited.
If your team is not quick, you cannot defend a quick team ... and everybody watching sees it.
Our team is not quick, at all, both offensively and defensively. The players and coaches both know this.
Wheeler is the only player on our roster with high-level quickness, but he is limited by size, unfortunately.
Slower, spot-up, perimeter shooters that cannot get to the rim are easy to defend and hard to win big games with, especially on off-shooting nights. The BIG TEN plays that way and has not won an NCAA Championship since Michigan State won it in 2000 and, before that, it was Michigan in 1989.
Next year, it appears we will have ultra-quick players, but it seems they shoot poorly. It is hard to do it all.
Hopefully, they will be able to get to the lane and rim, along with being ferocious on-ball defenders.
We'll see ...
If your team is not quick, you are easy to guard.
If your team is not quick, the players know it and realize their options are limited.
If your team is not quick, you cannot defend a quick team ... and everybody watching sees it.
Our team is not quick, at all, both offensively and defensively. The players and coaches both know this.
Wheeler is the only player on our roster with high-level quickness, but he is limited by size, unfortunately.
Slower, spot-up, perimeter shooters that cannot get to the rim are easy to defend and hard to win big games with, especially on off-shooting nights. The BIG TEN plays that way and has not won an NCAA Championship since Michigan State won it in 2000 and, before that, it was Michigan in 1989.
Next year, it appears we will have ultra-quick players, but it seems they shoot poorly. It is hard to do it all.
Hopefully, they will be able to get to the lane and rim, along with being ferocious on-ball defenders.
We'll see ...
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Thanks for the recap ,,, good stuff !!
It is stretches like this when your defense needs to toughen up, get stops and win games.
What is more alarming is only 10 shots at the rim.
Vandy lost their big man 5 minutes into the game and played a lot of 5 guard lineup.
How do we only take TEN shots at the rim in this game?
An inept head coach is how.
Vandy lost their big man 5 minutes into the game and played a lot of 5 guard lineup.
How do we only take TEN shots at the rim in this game?
An inept head coach is how.
That's America these days.
People believe what they want to believe regardless of reality.
One thing I noticed was the refs swallowing their whistles when we went inside, and Vandy was hacking like Blinken in Robin Hood Men in Tights. I saw Toppin drive the baseline and get full bodied out of bounds and no call. Turnover to Vandy. This happened all night. I'm sure they were shell shocked and figured the only way they could score was to back up a little and shoot jumpers.
May need to check your reading comprehension.
I stated:
—all midrange shots aren’t equal and shouldn’t be grouped together.
—15ft and in (especially uncontested vs heavily contested of course you get closer) is a good shot. Aka the “elbow jumper” you used as proof and closer.
—guards taking a pull-up isn’t a bad shot as it’s often a clean look… everyone you listed was a guard that did just that. I said guards specifically bc they are often good 3pt shooters which means their range extends beyond 20ft so they typically hit the 10-15footer with ease. You don’t want a forward or big man who is a poor 3pt shooter taking a bunch of 17-20footers just bc they are slightly better from there and hit it 35-40% (good 3pt% but poor 2pt%). If it’s at the fringe of someone’s range they aren’t going to be consistent enough for it to be a shot you “work to get” and be emphasized on the offense. It’s an ok occasional shot to make the defense respect it but 30 of 50 shots being midrange is wild
—Skal was misused but he shouldn’t his midrange game should t have been the emphasis of the offense either. Yes he should have been used in the short corner, catching the ball 5-15 feet from the basket and facing up for his looks…but his looks didn’t need to be many in number when you have Ulis, Murray, Briscoe, Poythress, Matthews…..playing to our strengths would have been playing perimeter oriented basketball and most your short corner post coming from Poythress used PJ Washington fashion combined with Skal and Lee playing from the short corner/extended baseline post looking to rim run for lobs and putbacks. Skal would have had some games where he played a bigger role w 10-15 foot jumpers against zone heavy teams (again that’s good midrange not 17-20ft)
The problem with your forwards and bigs taking the majority of their shots from mid range is 70-80% of the time you can get a better shot by continue to run through the offense if it isn’t a late shotclock situation. That’s before you consider that players like PJ, Randle, Toppin, Poythress, Livingston not settling for midrange shots and trying to get to floater range or to the rim seeking contact is where you get teams in foul trouble and get to the line.
We weren’t completely disagreeing. It’s an ok tool in the box situationally but it shouldn’t be the tool you use 50-70% of the time. Unless you’re Dirk, Bird, MJ, Kobe, Lebron using the short midrange post and fade..::but they don’t make those guys everyday
To be fair, there are many, many more players that excel at the mid-range shot than Dirk, Bird, MJ, Kobe and Lebron. Somewhere else, or maybe earlier in this thread, I posted an article about the mid-range making a comeback currently in the NBA. Teams are taking away the 3 more and more, and of course trying to take away the paint. This obviously leaves the mid-range as an area to attack. So, players with pretty good numbers, are taking advantage of that: Derozan with the Bulls, KD wherever he is, Ingram, Booker, Beal, Jokic, PG, Chris Paul and several others - all doing really well from mid-range.
If Cal is making it the "focal point" of the offense, then yes I object. But several on here see an attempt from mid-range and just lose their mind. Alabama blah blah blah, Warriors blah blah blah. Oscar can't dominate every game. Our shooters aren't exactly very good shooters. Casson went down with an injury. Take the best shots you can get, each possession. If Reeves - or like with Tyler Herro - can hit that shot, then give him the green light. Better than driving into traffic and turning it over
So what about the 20 from free throw line to 3 point line? You good with those? Try harder
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