Houston's last four recruiting classes
- Thread starter Bulldogg31
- Start date
That's about where our classes would rank if we didn't have so many premium subscribers.
Remember when ole Brennan and high power Hawaii met Georgia in Sugar Bowl game back in 2008? It was like Georgia was playing a scrimmage. Comparing a team from a crap conference to an SEC team is dumb.
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I agree, but I think it's becoming more evident that with signing limits there just isn't the huge talent gap between say, The number 25 recruiter (us) and the #75 recruiter (Houston). Only 350 kids get to sign SEC scholarships each year. Another 350 or so get ACC scholarships. That leaves a ton of really good athletes out there. Everyone has talented players these days.
That QB that Houston's got could play for most of the SEC. They've got several other great looking athletes too. If they were on our schedule this year, I wouldn't like our chances.
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Don't forget that Utahs Kyle Whittingham admitted that when his team joined the Pac12 he had to work much harder on his roster because his teams didn't have the depth to handle the grind of the season playing against NFL players every week.
Houston is in a similar situation here. Can they get up for a game or two and beat a top5 team? Sure. Could they plat vsFL, atUGA, at aTm, and vs Bama Ina four week stretch and survive? Nope (that's TNs next four games).
Also of note... Give Hermann another year or two and he will have that roster ready for a challenge like that. He is an excellent program manager.
Houston is in a similar situation here. Can they get up for a game or two and beat a top5 team? Sure. Could they plat vsFL, atUGA, at aTm, and vs Bama Ina four week stretch and survive? Nope (that's TNs next four games).
Also of note... Give Hermann another year or two and he will have that roster ready for a challenge like that. He is an excellent program manager.
I wasn't comparing Houston to any SEC team. I'm just saying I've watched a lot of football this year (including Houston twice now) and that team is well developed and well coached.
I truly believe a good player developer will beat a good "recruiting class signer" most days. You've got the be able to find and develop a great QB to win nowadays. Game managers aren't good enough. A good redshirting program is a huge advantage too. Find a guy who's good at all of it and he'll win 4 national titles at Alabama.
I'm not saying all recruiters, just the guys who sign great classes in Feb, then lose 1/2 the guys over the next three years. Auburn and Ole Miss come to mind.
I truly believe a good player developer will beat a good "recruiting class signer" most days. You've got the be able to find and develop a great QB to win nowadays. Game managers aren't good enough. A good redshirting program is a huge advantage too. Find a guy who's good at all of it and he'll win 4 national titles at Alabama.
I'm not saying all recruiters, just the guys who sign great classes in Feb, then lose 1/2 the guys over the next three years. Auburn and Ole Miss come to mind.
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And lost to Memphis?
What are FSU's recruiting classes? I'm sure they outtalented Houston in last year's Peach Bowl, right?
What are FSU's recruiting classes? I'm sure they outtalented Houston in last year's Peach Bowl, right?
Its not about one game. It's about 8 games against teams with multiple NFL players.
I agree with you generally. But that 2008 Utah team was legitimately one of the best teams in the country. Beat michigan on the road (although they were garbage), Oregon state, a ranked BYU team, a ranked TCU team, and made alabama look silly in the Sugar. All told they went 4-0 against teams who finished in the top 25. There are occasionally truly great teams that could probably hold up for a Power 5 season, but they are so rare and you can never really tell which is which until after the season.
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I get that, but last year's Sugar Bowl rep from the SEC was 9-3 and ranked #12 when they got the bid.
There's not 4 automatic losses for Houston on OM's 2015 schedule.
There's not 4 automatic losses for Houston on OM's 2015 schedule.
I've heard you say that Paul jones gets guys in our classes ranked higher than they should be, but...
'13 -- #20 (scout), #25 (247)
'14 -- #39 (scout), #35 (247)
'15 -- #19 (scout), #18 (247)
'16 -- #34 (scout), #27 (247)
'17 -- #23 (scout), #21 (247)
Avg -- #27 (scout), #25 (247)
Doesn't seem like much difference to me
Would you consider Clemson's schedule a Power 5? I think Houston would go 11-1 or 10-2 just as easily as Clemson will.
They scheduled two SEC teams OOC—they just so happen to suck—and Louisville and Fl State are good teams. Ga. Tech is usually pretty good too. I would definitely consider that a P5 schedule. I think the point most people are making is that the middle to bottom of P5 conferences are much better than the non P5 conferences, and that's true. But what I was saying was that doesn't mean there aren't teams in non P5 schools that could win 10-12 games in P5 conferences. They are just extremely rare. I think 08 Utah is a good example of one.
I guess the point I'm trying to make... Is that even the man who has every reason in the world to tell you that his teams could compete with those schedules... Admitted he couldn't. Getting up for a handful of games each year is doable, but grinding through team after team with NFL players is a whole different game.
OM last year is a perfect example... Losses to Memphis and Arkansas. Which were the 7th and 8th best opponents they faced. Doing it week-in and week-out is just an entirely different thing.
So, Arkansas can lose at home to Toledo and 6-6 Texas Tech but they'd beat Houston 10/10 times? Come on. They would boat race 2015 LSU too.
To be frank, 90% of college football teams, even the good ones, only have to get up for 3 maybe 4 real in conference challenges during the regular season, and they usually aren't even in consecutive weeks. Only the teams in the SEC West have the full-proof "SEC Grind schedule" that gets brought up in these conversations. Just look around the country at the conference schedules if you think I'm wrong:
-Clemson: Louisville, Florida State
-Florida State: Louisville, Clemson
-Ohio State: Wisconsin, Michigan State, Michigan
-Baylor: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma
-Georgia: Ole Miss, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn
Now look at the path to the playoff for us Ole Miss, and Alabama
-MSU: LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Alabama, Ole Miss
-Ole Miss: Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M
-Alabama: Ole Miss, Tennessee, Texas A&M, LSU, Auburn
Point is, if you are going to snub your nose at Houston's schedule based on who Alabama or Ole Miss is playing, you might as well snub your nose at everyone else including the SEC East, because no one one but the SEC West teams are playing >=5 real challenge games each year.
-Clemson: Louisville, Florida State
-Florida State: Louisville, Clemson
-Ohio State: Wisconsin, Michigan State, Michigan
-Baylor: Texas, TCU, Oklahoma
-Georgia: Ole Miss, Tennessee, Florida, Auburn
Now look at the path to the playoff for us Ole Miss, and Alabama
-MSU: LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M, Alabama, Ole Miss
-Ole Miss: Alabama, Georgia, LSU, Auburn, Texas A&M
-Alabama: Ole Miss, Tennessee, Texas A&M, LSU, Auburn
Point is, if you are going to snub your nose at Houston's schedule based on who Alabama or Ole Miss is playing, you might as well snub your nose at everyone else including the SEC East, because no one one but the SEC West teams are playing >=5 real challenge games each year.
Remember 2011 when Boise State went down to Georgia and beat UGA?
Ill take your 1 game example and counter with a 1 game example. Boom.
Memberberries are delicious.
Yes that he had that team and said that is very interesting. I don't have the original quote in context but was he talking about that years Utah team in particular or the program in general? I wonder what he would think about his 08 team's chances against a full P5 schedule.
Yes you can see tumbleweeds on their message boards. That effects recruiting ranking. Houston has recruited better than us the last few years despite ranking.
He made he quote a year or two after joining the Pac12. It was featured in Cowherds latest book. Utah joined Oac12 in 2011 and had losing Pac12 records the first three years, in which whittingham claimed his roster wasn't where it needed to be. In the 3 years prior to joining, they went 33-6. The first three years of Pac12, they went 18-19.
I disagree with this. The bottom of the SEC and ACC or any other power 5 is still significantly better than the bottom of AAC, CUSA, or Mountain West.
Uk, Vandy, Arkansas, UVA, BC, WashSt, Oregon State, Iowa State, Illinois, Minnesota, etc.... are all much tougher games than UCF, Temple, UAB, Rice, FIU, New Mexico, Nevada, and Utah State.
Houston has more population than the states of Alabama and Mississippi (or Louisiana and Mississippi) combined. That could affect recruiting quite a bit. Of course, they have more colleges going after them too.
On the flip side, Kentucky's last few recruiting classes:
2013- #29
2014- #18
2015- #34
2016- #29
Two things I know for sure...
1. Houston would beat Kentucky by whatever score they chose.
2. Kids who sign with an SEC team (even KY) get a bump on the rankings, ESPECIALLY if it's with Bama, LSU, FLA, GA, or for some reason Auburn.
True program/player development and excellent QB play is the key. Give me that over high class rankings. (Yes, I'll take both if you're offering)
2013- #29
2014- #18
2015- #34
2016- #29
Two things I know for sure...
1. Houston would beat Kentucky by whatever score they chose.
2. Kids who sign with an SEC team (even KY) get a bump on the rankings, ESPECIALLY if it's with Bama, LSU, FLA, GA, or for some reason Auburn.
True program/player development and excellent QB play is the key. Give me that over high class rankings. (Yes, I'll take both if you're offering)
We've got 2 data points to look at here; TCU and Utah.
It took TCU 2 years to acclimate to the big12. They were 47-5 the 4 years prior to joining and 11-14 the first two years after.
It took Utah 3 years. They were 33-6 the three years prior and 18-19 the three years after.
To me, it seems pretty simple that the argument of the "grind of a power 5 schedule" is a legit one.
Houston lost at UCONN last year. Which 4 SEC Road games are a easier than UCONN?
also of note, Toledo was an excellent football team last year and would've given Houston anything and everything they wanted head-to-head.
The way I see it, if you have an undefeated team from the American or MWC who is beating everyone by 40 points, they deserve a spot in the playoff as long as they have beaten a minimum of 2 ranked opponents AND there are 3 or fewer undefeated teams from the Power 5. Teams like Utah, TCU, and Louisville back when they were in smaller but capable conferences, I have no problem with them getting a playoff bid over a 10-1 conference champion Virginia Tech or Wisconsin who feasted on the Indiana's and Wake Forrest's of the world but probably lost their only true test against Ohio State/Florida State. Teams from C-USA, Sunbelt, MAC, and WAC have no business in the playoff no matter how many Western Kentucky's they beat 77-3.
Yes.
MSU loses to Houston with Case Keenum at home.
MSU blows out Houston without Case Keenum on the road in 2010.
Look at Missouri
Going from Big 12 to SEC is a big step as well.
Gary Pinkel's overall record in SEC play (2012-2015) was 33-19 (17-15) when the SEC East was arguably the weakest it's been in decades.
Over the same period, Missouri's recruiting classes averaged 35 nationally.
Since joining the conference, Missouri's record against SEC West teams is: 4-6.
When you consider two of those seasons Missouri won the SEC East (and then got destroyed in the SECCG), it shows just how ridiculous the SEC is and, in particular, the SEC West.
Houston would not have the same success in the SEC West.
Going from Big 12 to SEC is a big step as well.
Gary Pinkel's overall record in SEC play (2012-2015) was 33-19 (17-15) when the SEC East was arguably the weakest it's been in decades.
Over the same period, Missouri's recruiting classes averaged 35 nationally.
Since joining the conference, Missouri's record against SEC West teams is: 4-6.
When you consider two of those seasons Missouri won the SEC East (and then got destroyed in the SECCG), it shows just how ridiculous the SEC is and, in particular, the SEC West.
Houston would not have the same success in the SEC West.
They were very good, but if they can walk into Little Rock and leave with a W. Houston can too.
OM only played three teams that finished last year ranked. I don't see that as a murderous row.
OM only played three teams that finished last year ranked. I don't see that as a murderous row.
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