Interesting Wheeler shooting stats

[UKat51]

Totally agree. Wheeler is now 2nd on the team in 3pt percentage behind only Wallace. He has made 15-36. Thiero is at 50% but only has 4 attempts.

He MUST start making free throws. He shot 78% last season and has been 70% or better for his entire career, but he's at 62.5% this season, which is unacceptable for a point guard. He's in his own head right now, I have no doubt.

He and Oscar missing late game free throws lost the St Peters game last year

 

[UKat51]

I tell you what Dan. I'll stop being condescending when you guys start telling the truth about Wheeler. How about tonight? 11 points, 3-5 from three, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers. My only complaint on him tonight is missing the front end of that one and one. He's gotta make free throws and he has historically made them pretty well, but not this year. Still, we don't win this game without him. He's now #17 in the nation in assist rate.

But hey, I didn't call anyone a dumba**. That is your word. But hey, if that's what you think I'm not arguing.

Look Dan, here's the deal: Wheeler has his limitations, I've never denied it. He is 5-9 and he struggles with size, offensively and defensively. He has not shot the ball well from 3 historically. I said from the start of the season, he's got to make a decent percentage out there because he will be open. He's got to keep defenses honest and make them pay for leaving him. In my estimation, that means he's got to make 33% or better. Right now, you may want to ignore this stat by the way, he has made 15-36 from 3 on the season for 41.7%.

But here's the bottom line for me: I don't expect anyone here to sing his praises. I know that will never happen here because you guys have already cast your die and your pride is now on the line, gotta save face, facts be damned. But here is the truth- he doesn't deserve to be dogged the way he gets dogged on this board.

And hey, by the way, I was frustrated tonight that he kept being the guy with the ball in his hands as the shot clock ran down at the end. I was saying Wallace needs the ball or get it to Oscar. But the other guys kept refusing to make plays and kept giving it back to Wheeler. What can he do other than try to make a late play? Wallace made a great play near the end.

But hey, if you think you'll talk me into submission you got another thing coming. I'm right on this. Period. The numbers back me up. He's not superman and he has flaws but he doesn't suck like many here talk. That's what got my reaction. Just read this idiotic thread again and tell me these are apt descriptions of Wheeler. It's ridiculous.

He only sucks at clutch time in close games in the last 3/4 minutes
He played a really nice game tonight. Maybe his best in a UK uniform. All would have been negated I’d we had lost the game because he could not make free throws when the game was on the line

 

[revcort]

He only sucks at clutch time in close games in the last 3/4 minutes
He played a really nice game tonight. Maybe his best in a UK uniform. All would have been negated I’d we had lost the game because he could not make free throws when the game was on the line

If he makes the free throws at the end, all would be well. He made a couple bad plays. The entire approach at the end of games needs to change, in my opinion. We wait too long to initiate the offense and then Wheeler ends up forcing something. Nobody wants the ball, it seems. It's like they're all running and hiding. It's not all on Wheeler but he bears the brunt because he ends up having to try to create. Someone should WANT the ball. Wallace is the guy, in my opinion. He made one good play at the end. But he struggles getting by his man at times.

 

[UKat51]

If he makes the free throws at the end, all would be well. He made a couple bad plays. The entire approach at the end of games needs to change, in my opinion. We wait too long to initiate the offense and then Wheeler ends up forcing something. Nobody wants the ball, it seems. It's like they're all running and hiding. It's not all on Wheeler but he bears the brunt because he ends up having to try to create. Someone should WANT the ball. Wallace is the guy, in my opinion. He made one good play at the end. But he struggles getting by his man at times.

Wallace basically disappeared in the second half. Biggest play in second have was the drive to the basket late in the game

 

[cal=8]

I tell you what Dan. I'll stop being condescending when you guys start telling the truth about Wheeler. How about tonight? 11 points, 3-5 from three, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers. My only complaint on him tonight is missing the front end of that one and one. He's gotta make free throws and he has historically made them pretty well, but not this year. Still, we don't win this game without him. He's now #17 in the nation in assist rate.

But hey, I didn't call anyone a dumba**. That is your word. But hey, if that's what you think I'm not arguing.

Look Dan, here's the deal: Wheeler has his limitations, I've never denied it. He is 5-9 and he struggles with size, offensively and defensively. He has not shot the ball well from 3 historically. I said from the start of the season, he's got to make a decent percentage out there because he will be open. He's got to keep defenses honest and make them pay for leaving him. In my estimation, that means he's got to make 33% or better. Right now, you may want to ignore this stat by the way, he has made 15-36 from 3 on the season for 41.7%.

But here's the bottom line for me: I don't expect anyone here to sing his praises. I know that will never happen here because you guys have already cast your die and your pride is now on the line, gotta save face, facts be damned. But here is the truth- he doesn't deserve to be dogged the way he gets dogged on this board.

And hey, by the way, I was frustrated tonight that he kept being the guy with the ball in his hands as the shot clock ran down at the end. I was saying Wallace needs the ball or get it to Oscar. But the other guys kept refusing to make plays and kept giving it back to Wheeler. What can he do other than try to make a late play? Wallace made a great play near the end.

But hey, if you think you'll talk me into submission you got another thing coming. I'm right on this. Period. The numbers back me up. He's not superman and he has flaws but he doesn't suck like many here talk. That's what got my reaction. Just read this idiotic thread again and tell me these are apt descriptions of Wheeler. It's ridiculous.

Excellent post. Wheeler is the 3rd or 4th best player on this team and your right, we would have lost tonight if he didn't play.

He is not perfect by any means but he has ELITE court vision and is a very good defender for his size and you can tell he's working on his game.

He needs to hit free throws and finish at the basket. If he fixes those two issues he could lead us deep into March. Plus he's all we got!

 

[cal=8]

I'm just glad we got the dub! I was watching Bama earlier. Wonder how they're gonna handle big Oscar!

 

[TankedCat]

the issue with Wheeler is his decision making

you guys can argue stats all day long but with the game in crunch time, you can't count on him.

I don't really care how great a PG he is when we are 5 minutes into the game. Its the last 5 minutes.

You want to die on the hill of Wheeler hitting a banked 3 pointer? And its not just missing a free throw. We've seen this happen as a pattern.

Anyone want to argue that Wheeler's decision making has improved since last year?

I'm more mad about Cal putting us in the position to rely on Wheeler. It appears Cal has learned he can't win with Ware getting 30 minutes a game (and it only took until January), but at this point he can't fix the PG situation.

This season is yet another lost season due to Cal's inability to evaluate, develop, and properly position players.

in other words , basic coaching

 

[sambowieshin_rivals]

Well, I've defended him all along, might as well keep on. Sometimes I think folks here share a brain. Some posted basically "facts be damned, we know what we 'see'!" That sums up this thread and the incessant attacks on our starting point guard. Wheeler shooting nearly 39% from 3 means he is keeping defenses honest. That's what we need from him out there. Aside from this, he is currently #18 nationally in assist rate. Do I want him playing 39 minutes? No. But he's much better than what some of you apparently blind people can see. Unlike the opinions expressed in this thread, mine is actually based on facts. That's all I'm gonna say here until someone actually says something factual to refute it.

His 62 percent from the line has got to improve if we want to close out wins over good teams.
As far as numbers go .....that's the only stat of his that really bugs me right now.

 

[Cal-4-Three]

If I had it my way he wouldn’t play 2 minutes. He provides ZERO positives to either side of the ball.

I won’t speak on the offensive side we all know how pitiful that is.

How many times a game does he put us in a scramble defensively due to giving up a blow by? I’d rather have Ryan Harrow running the 1 than this guy.

If you truly believe that, then you truly don't understand basketball. Dude's assist to turnover ratio is very good and that's what you want from your PG.

 

[UK-Chulo]

If he makes the free throws at the end, all would be well. He made a couple bad plays. The entire approach at the end of games needs to change, in my opinion. We wait too long to initiate the offense and then Wheeler ends up forcing something. Nobody wants the ball, it seems. It's like they're all running and hiding. It's not all on Wheeler but he bears the brunt because he ends up having to try to create. Someone should WANT the ball. Wallace is the guy, in my opinion. He made one good play at the end. But he struggles getting by his man at times.

I would argue that Wheeler creates that situation with him having the ball late in the shot clock. With 15-10 seconds left on the shot clock he goes into his dribbling exhibition at the top of the key and the defenders know they want him to keep it for the forced shot as time expires so they all clamp down on their man and the passing lanes for about five seconds. This leaves Wheeler no choice but to take it himself. I’m still undecided if he does this intentionally or if it’s poor clock management on his part not getting them into the offense so someone else gets the shot.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I tell you what Dan. I'll stop being condescending when you guys start telling the truth about Wheeler. How about tonight? 11 points, 3-5 from three, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers. My only complaint on him tonight is missing the front end of that one and one. He's gotta make free throws and he has historically made them pretty well, but not this year. Still, we don't win this game without him. He's now #17 in the nation in assist rate.

But hey, I didn't call anyone a dumba**. That is your word. But hey, if that's what you think I'm not arguing.

Look Dan, here's the deal: Wheeler has his limitations, I've never denied it. He is 5-9 and he struggles with size, offensively and defensively. He has not shot the ball well from 3 historically. I said from the start of the season, he's got to make a decent percentage out there because he will be open. He's got to keep defenses honest and make them pay for leaving him. In my estimation, that means he's got to make 33% or better. Right now, you may want to ignore this stat by the way, he has made 15-36 from 3 on the season for 41.7%.

But here's the bottom line for me: I don't expect anyone here to sing his praises. I know that will never happen here because you guys have already cast your die and your pride is now on the line, gotta save face, facts be damned. But here is the truth- he doesn't deserve to be dogged the way he gets dogged on this board.

And hey, by the way, I was frustrated tonight that he kept being the guy with the ball in his hands as the shot clock ran down at the end. I was saying Wallace needs the ball or get it to Oscar. But the other guys kept refusing to make plays and kept giving it back to Wheeler. What can he do other than try to make a late play? Wallace made a great play near the end.

But hey, if you think you'll talk me into submission you got another thing coming. I'm right on this. Period. The numbers back me up. He's not superman and he has flaws but he doesn't suck like many here talk. That's what got my reaction. Just read this idiotic thread again and tell me these are apt descriptions of Wheeler. It's ridiculous.

My is comment on a serrate thread about wheelers play last night :

"Anyone that reads this board knows I'm no large fan of Wheeler , but tonight he was really good , and some , not all , but a large share should fall on the shoulders of Cal .. We purposely run the shot clock down and give to SW and ask him to work some type of basketball magic .. Its Cals offense , at least tonight when SW was playing well".
So I basically agree with you , but lets be straight with everyone , that was best game in 2 years here . If he keeps it up and plays anywhere close to that level the criticism that was warranted in a lot of games will disappear , but thats a humungous IF . Its my opinion over the long haul and against top 10-15 or top 5 teams we dont see a stat line like we saw last night . I hope we do , I hope he can run this team , and they continue to get this version of Toppin everyone hoped for , and Livingston comes on , and we get Reeves and CJ helping , but my mind and 50 years of basketball experience tells me we cant be a threat to the FF , which should be. reasonable goal as a fan of Kentucky , with Wheeler running things . He's not gonna swish 3's and bank 3's with the consistency the PG needs to do to be the guy that runs the show at UK . Why Cal has a love affair with such a limited player is beyond me , If Cals gonna bog down the end of close , important , hard fought games , like last night , then rely on his PG to pull the team to victory the last 3-4 minutes --Wheeler is screwed and yes , I agree , it isnt all his fault . Cal is setting him up for failure .

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I would argue that Wheeler creates that situation with him having the ball late in the shot clock. With 15-10 seconds left on the shot clock he goes into his dribbling exhibition at the top of the key and the defenders know they want him to keep it for the forced shot as time expires so they all clamp down on their man and the passing lanes for about five seconds. This leaves Wheeler no choice but to take it himself. I’m still undecided if he does this intentionally or if it’s poor clock management on his part not getting them into the offense so someone else gets the shot.

I think its by Cal's design , I know that sounds crazy, who would actually want that offense -- meaning " here Savir , go make a play" but thats what we get on a constant basis .. Run the clock to 7-10 seconds get the ball to SW , go pick n roll , or iso . Its insanity . You are correct on how things are playing out ... but its so consistent it has to be by design .

 

[K_TIME]

the issue with Wheeler is his decision making

you guys can argue stats all day long but with the game in crunch time, you can't count on him.

I don't really care how great a PG he is when we are 5 minutes into the game. Its the last 5 minutes.

You want to die on the hill of Wheeler hitting a banked 3 pointer? And its not just missing a free throw. We've seen this happen as a pattern.

Anyone want to argue that Wheeler's decision making has improved since last year?

I'm more mad about Cal putting us in the position to rely on Wheeler. It appears Cal has learned he can't win with Ware getting 30 minutes a game (and it only took until January), but at this point he can't fix the PG situation.

This season is yet another lost season due to Cal's inability to evaluate, develop, and properly position players.

in other words , basic coaching

Give it a break…

Wheeler is playing fine. He is up to 41 % 3pt. Sure he banked one in…he swished 2!other ones

I still hate that Cal gives him over 35 min a game but that is on Cal. Also Wheeler shooting issues at time is the ball rotate to him at end of shot clock late in games. And it happened yesterday again. We are up ten with ten to go and we actually stopped a few breaks to slow it …I guess that is being more deliberate…and we ran that stupid sets wjtb guards coming off picks to just receive the ball and. I attack to score. Cals *** coaching is way more of a problem then Wheeler

 

[TankedCat]

Give it a break…

Wheeler is playing fine. He is up to 41 % 3pt. Sure he banked one in…he swished 2!other ones

I still hate that Cal gives him over 35 min a game but that is on Cal. Also Wheeler shooting issues at time is the ball rotate to him at end of shot clock late in games. And it happened yesterday again. We are up ten with ten to go and we actually stopped a few breaks to slow it …I guess that is being more deliberate…and we ran that stupid sets wjtb guards coming off picks to just receive the ball and. I attack to score. Cals *** coaching is way more of a problem then Wheeler

what you posted has nothing to do with my response

do you trust Wheeler's decision making in end game situations?

Cal or not Cal I guess is relevant but people are arguing stats.

Its like arguing stats for Keion Brooks, he might have decent stats but in a crunch time situation he is going to take an ill advised 3 pointer or disappear.

 

[K_TIME]

what you posted has nothing to do with my response

do you trust Wheeler's decision making in end game situations?

Cal or not Cal I guess is relevant but people are arguing stats.

Its like arguing stats for Keion Brooks, he might have decent stats but in a crunch time situation he is going to take an ill advised 3 pointer or disappear.

Ok...

So let's pull Wheeler late in game....we run the same stall ball the last 5 minutes of a game where the guards just run under the basket, Oscar/Toppin set a pick around FT line, they get the ball GOING AWAY FROM BASKET and the shot clock runs down below 10. So it's in Wallace or Reeves hands vs. Wheeler.....do you not think they will have the same decision making issues?

The coaching has a ton to do with how players perform at times. And the coaching decisions to run an offense that stops trying to score but is trying to milk the clock is sort of dumb is it not? We don't have a 45 second shot clock anymore....it's 30 seconds. So when Cal does this stuff and there is 7 min left in game...you only get 1/2 a minute to burn and the ball goes to other team.

All I am saying if you watch the game instead of just buried in the stats at times...you see Wheeler was almost impeccable until last few minutes when Cal took the air out of the ball is all I am saying.

 

[KFuqua]

what you posted has nothing to do with my response

do you trust Wheeler's decision making in end game situations?

Cal or not Cal I guess is relevant but people are arguing stats.

Its like arguing stats for Keion Brooks, he might have decent stats but in a crunch time situation he is going to take an ill advised 3 pointer or disappear.

This! His late game decision making is what really hurts. He should not be shooting 3's in a late game situation, ever. He lucked one in last night but that's not going to happen often. He played well last night, for the most part, but in a close game; I don't want him with the ball.

 

[TankedCat]

Ok...

So let's pull Wheeler late in game....we run the same stall ball the last 5 minutes of a game where the guards just run under the basket, Oscar/Toppin set a pick around FT line, they get the ball GOING AWAY FROM BASKET and the shot clock runs down below 10. So it's in Wallace or Reeves hands vs. Wheeler.....do you not think they will have the same decision making issues?

.

You mean making a bad pass, shooting an ill advised shot or poor clock management?

I don't know, its an unknown at the moment. What is a known at the moment is everyone who defends Wheeler isn't saying he makes good decisions in late game situations.

I don't want to sound like I'm constantly dumping on Wheeler. I don't question his effort or his heart. But essentially you guys are saying he is in there because Cal puts him there, however doesn't change the reality of my evaluation of him. You don't want the ball in his hands with a game on the line. 8 on the shot clock, 1 point difference in the score , 1:20 left in the game.

None of us want Wheeler in that situation.

Its possible to realize that AND blame Cal for putting the program in that position.

 

[revcort]

My is comment on a serrate thread about wheelers play last night :

"Anyone that reads this board knows I'm no large fan of Wheeler , but tonight he was really good , and some , not all , but a large share should fall on the shoulders of Cal .. We purposely run the shot clock down and give to SW and ask him to work some type of basketball magic .. Its Cals offense , at least tonight when SW was playing well".
So I basically agree with you , but lets be straight with everyone , that was best game in 2 years here . If he keeps it up and plays anywhere close to that level the criticism that was warranted in a lot of games will disappear , but thats a humungous IF . Its my opinion over the long haul and against top 10-15 or top 5 teams we dont see a stat line like we saw last night . I hope we do , I hope he can run this team , and they continue to get this version of Toppin everyone hoped for , and Livingston comes on , and we get Reeves and CJ helping , but my mind and 50 years of basketball experience tells me we cant be a threat to the FF , which should be. reasonable goal as a fan of Kentucky , with Wheeler running things . He's not gonna swish 3's and bank 3's with the consistency the PG needs to do to be the guy that runs the show at UK . Why Cal has a love affair with such a limited player is beyond me , If Cals gonna bog down the end of close , important , hard fought games , like last night , then rely on his PG to pull the team to victory the last 3-4 minutes --Wheeler is screwed and yes , I agree , it isnt all his fault . Cal is setting him up for failure .

I agree with most of what you just said. I know Wheeler deserves some criticism. I will criticize the free throw shooting all day. It must improve. I also don't want him with the ball under 10 seconds with the game on the line. I don't think HE wants the ball in that moment, either. He has limitations. But what he does well he does at an elite level. Namely, his court vision and quickness are elite. He finds the open man. So, if we're being honest and fair, we can offer BOTH criticism and praise to Wheeler. Right now he has 89 assists and 30 turnovers on the season. He's shooting over 40% from 3. Clearly, he's doing some things right. So, he's not the answer to every situation, without a doubt. I don't think he's the guy who needs to be asked to make a play as the shot clock is expiring. Wallace made one great play in that situation last night but he also struggles with ball pressure and, for some reason, hesitates to use his strength to force the action when it is needed- he defers, and usually it's to Wheeler. Another guy who could play that role is Reeves. That's what he did for IL State the last 2 seasons. I don't understand why he is so hesitant to try to make a play. The entire team defers to Wheeler. Nobody tries to make a play- they just pass it back to Wheeler. Now, I'm sure you say Calipari is the one directing that. I don't know if that's the case or not. It looks to me like Wheeler gives the ball up but nobody else is willing to make a play. I think we've got a team full of guys who are afraid to try to make a play in that situation.

Regarding the change in offense from "GO!" to more "deliberate," it has clearly helped the team offensively for the most part. We are much more efficient now than we were earlier in the season. But there are times when we need to push the ball, without a doubt. I think the issue right now is picking the right moment to push and when to stop and run a play. Maybe that will come as we move forward. But I agree with Jimmy Dykes from last night to a point- there are times we need to push the ball. And truly, if we're talking about Wheeler's strengths, pushing the ball in the open floor is what he does as well as anyone.

 

[K_TIME]

You mean making a bad pass, shooting an ill advised shot or poor clock management?

None of us want Wheeler in that situation.

Its possible to realize that AND blame Cal for putting the program in that position.

When the ball swings back to you under 8 on shot clock....the likelihood of taking an "ill advised shot" is pretty damn high. And if the coach is the one doing stall ball...I just don't blame Wheeler is all i am saying. The same for clock management. The game took a completely different pace at the 8 minute mark. There was a play Wheeler had the ball and 3 LSU guys behind him...and he dribbled to the side and burned clock....but he didn't do that same thing earlier in game. Why is that on Wheeler when Cal is the one directing it all?

 

[TankedCat]

When the ball swings back to you under 8 on shot clock....the likelihood of taking an "ill advised shot" is pretty damn high. And if the coach is the one doing stall ball...I just don't blame Wheeler is all i am saying. The same for clock management. The game took a completely different pace at the 8 minute mark. There was a play Wheeler had the ball and 3 LSU guys behind him...and he dribbled to the side and burned clock....but he didn't do that same thing earlier in game. Why is that on Wheeler when Cal is the one directing it all?

because it repeats and its predictable

 

[UK-Chulo]

I think its by Cal's design , I know that sounds crazy, who would actually want that offense -- meaning " here Savir , go make a play" but thats what we get on a constant basis .. Run the clock to 7-10 seconds get the ball to SW , go pick n roll , or iso . Its insanity . You are correct on how things are playing out ... but its so consistent it has to be by design .

Painful to admit we are that basic, but I’m buying it’s what Cal wants.

 

[Roundmound33]

If you truly believe that, then you truly don't understand basketball. Dude's assist to turnover ratio is very good and that's what you want from your PG.

I 100% believe that. Assist to turnover ratio is great. Let’s pick and choose stats that support our argument.

He’s 5’8” playing in a game dominated by long athletic guards. My 12 year old is taller than him.

Let’s talk about the defensive end. How many is he responsible for on the other end.

Someone that understands basketball actually knows the game is played on both sides of the court not on a stat sheet.

 

[Cal-4-Three]

I 100% believe that. Assist to turnover ratio is great. Let’s pick and choose stats that support our argument.

He’s 5’8” playing in a game dominated by long athletic guards. My 12 year old is taller than him.

Let’s talk about the defensive end. How many is he responsible for on the other end.

Someone that understands basketball actually knows the game is played on both sides of the court not on a stat sheet.

Advanced stats don't really back up your point but I digress. It's easy to hate on him for his late game antics at times but he is a good player for us. Just needs to tidy up those turnovers at the end of games.

 

[dc513]

the issue with Wheeler is his decision making

you guys can argue stats all day long but with the game in crunch time, you can't count on him.

I don't really care how great a PG he is when we are 5 minutes into the game. Its the last 5 minutes.

You want to die on the hill of Wheeler hitting a banked 3 pointer? And its not just missing a free throw. We've seen this happen as a pattern.

Anyone want to argue that Wheeler's decision making has improved since last year?

I'm more mad about Cal putting us in the position to rely on Wheeler. It appears Cal has learned he can't win with Ware getting 30 minutes a game (and it only took until January), but at this point he can't fix the PG situation.

This season is yet another lost season due to Cal's inability to evaluate, develop, and properly position players.

in other words , basic coaching

It is more Cal telling them how to make every play during end of games that is the biggest problem. Cal tries to tell them when to move, where to go,etc. It is like having a back seat driver. He gets into their heads. If he would just practice what to do during practice time. Then tell them that they know what to do. Then sit down and shut up. They would be fine.

 

[qwesley]

Advanced stats don't really back up your point but I digress. It's easy to hate on him for his late game antics at times but he is a good player for us. Just needs to tidy up those turnovers at the end of games.

Yes, good. We are a fringe top-25 team because we are putting out "good" but flawed players at too many positions.