At what precise point did Cal ruin the program?

Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
10,292
27,496
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We are a Brandon Knight shot, and a couple Aaron Harrison shots away from REALLY hating CCC. Imagine for a second if those shots hadn’t fallen. How would that change his legacy, if you want to call it a legacy ???

Oh I guess had we been in another final four and won another title we would have REALLY hated the guy 🤣

The CC is wild.
 
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Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
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This team is going no where and that is just a fact. Not the players fault either. We do have the pieces, but no leader. I just hate it for Oscar, because I absolutely love the guy. One of my all time favorites and I’ve been around a long time.

This team has all the signs of a club going nowhere. Beating an average team like Michigan by 4. Getting embarrassed against teams that aren’t really any good like Gonzaga. SEC play is going to kill us and the Cal Cult is going to have to really ratchet up those excuses big time after this season.

Hope I’m wrong as always but I won’t be. How is this team going to go deep? How are they going to dominate the SEC? We don’t have the pieces, it’s not there.

We’re actually overrated at 16. With another coach maybe not but without scorers and with Calipari we won’t be ranked somewhere inside of SEC play.
 

nickhorvathsuxazz

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Jul 21, 2015
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Not so much only directed at you, but there is a huge pet peeve of mine in this post. Very few, if any, we’re anti-Calipari in 2009. When he came on board the excitement was off the charts. I can only remember 1 single poster, Cut, that didn’t like him from the jump. Now if some didn’t trust him they didn’t really say it. From 2009-2015 no one really disliked Calipari. This seems to be a talking point by guys like look to prop up Calipari and not look at the reality of his record. They want to simply pretend he’s been “hated” for no reason it’s verifiably false.

Calipari has a lot of people against him because he began losing at the university of Kentucky. Winning cures all, and he doesn’t win. So people can continue to pretend he was hated even when he was winning but they’re either lying or they’ve worker themsleves over because the truth is too difficult.

Now having said that I never fully trusted Calipari because he’s not a trustworthy individual, but I was fully in support of the hire and fully supportive of him until around 4 years ago. The last 3 I’ve been eyeing him up as fireable, the last 2 I’ve wanted him gone.

But it is a total falsehood that there was any sizeable portion of this fan base that “hated “ Calipari when we were in final fours and winning. And you absolutely cannot find threads from back then where anyone disapproved of Calipari. Just accept this is about wins and losses and he’s losing. There’s no need in deceiving to make him look like a victim of bad fans and not a victim of his own losses on the court.

1-11 / 23-25.

^^^ that is fireable at this program.
That's about the same timeline I have on my...disgruntlement with our coach.
 

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
Not so much only directed at you, but there is a huge pet peeve of mine in this post. Very few, if any, we’re anti-Calipari in 2009. When he came on board the excitement was off the charts. I can only remember 1 single poster, Cut, that didn’t like him from the jump. Now if some didn’t trust him they didn’t really say it. From 2009-2015 no one really disliked Calipari. This seems to be a talking point by guys like look to prop up Calipari and not look at the reality of his record. They want to simply pretend he’s been “hated” for no reason it’s verifiably false.

Calipari has a lot of people against him because he began losing at the university of Kentucky. Winning cures all, and he doesn’t win. So people can continue to pretend he was hated even when he was winning but they’re either lying or they’ve worker themsleves over because the truth is too difficult.

Now having said that I never fully trusted Calipari because he’s not a trustworthy individual, but I was fully in support of the hire and fully supportive of him until around 4 years ago. The last 3 I’ve been eyeing him up as fireable, the last 2 I’ve wanted him gone.

But it is a total falsehood that there was any sizeable portion of this fan base that “hated “ Calipari when we were in final fours and winning. And you absolutely cannot find threads from back then where anyone disapproved of Calipari. Just accept this is about wins and losses and he’s losing. There’s no need in deceiving to make him look like a victim of bad fans and not a victim of his own losses on the court.

1-11 / 23-25.

^^^ that is fireable at this program.
No worries gromcat. I will fully acknowledge that I believe you want what's best for the program. I do, too. We just disagree, for now, on what is best. I did only offer hating Cal from the jump as 1 of 5 possible moments when different fans believed the program was ruined. The other 4 options I gave, I think, are probably legitimate moments for some people. I don't believe it is unreasonable to be upset with where the program is right now. I'm also upset. I hate losing, with a passion. I do think some genuinely hate Cal and others are reaching the point of being unable to have a rational conversation about him, his coaching, or the current team because of their anger and frustration. But the bottom line is the same: Cal needs to win. That will cure most people's ills.
 

know1

Heisman
Dec 8, 2002
12,855
14,925
0
Not so much only directed at you, but there is a huge pet peeve of mine in this post. Very few, if any, we’re anti-Calipari in 2009. When he came on board the excitement was off the charts. I can only remember 1 single poster, Cut, that didn’t like him from the jump. Now if some didn’t trust him they didn’t really say it. From 2009-2015 no one really disliked Calipari. This seems to be a talking point by guys like look to prop up Calipari and not look at the reality of his record. They want to simply pretend he’s been “hated” for no reason it’s verifiably false.

Calipari has a lot of people against him because he began losing at the university of Kentucky. Winning cures all, and he doesn’t win. So people can continue to pretend he was hated even when he was winning but they’re either lying or they’ve worker themsleves over because the truth is too difficult.

Now having said that I never fully trusted Calipari because he’s not a trustworthy individual, but I was fully in support of the hire and fully supportive of him until around 4 years ago. The last 3 I’ve been eyeing him up as fireable, the last 2 I’ve wanted him gone.

But it is a total falsehood that there was any sizeable portion of this fan base that “hated “ Calipari when we were in final fours and winning. And you absolutely cannot find threads from back then where anyone disapproved of Calipari. Just accept this is about wins and losses and he’s losing. There’s no need in deceiving to make him look like a victim of bad fans and not a victim of his own losses on the court.

1-11 / 23-25.

^^^ that is fireable at this program.
This is pretty much me. I never had anything against Cal whatsoever until sometime around 2018 or so when I realized he was causing the slow death of the program I loved.

Sure, all along I was pretty sure he wasn't doing much coaching, but we were dominating college basketball for the most part. When the results started tailing off, it became much more obvious the other, smaller ways he was killing the program by getting rid of our traditions, minimizing rivalries, not playing true road games, not protecting records, not playing the best players to win each game, etc.
 

Backer cutter

Heisman
Jul 8, 2019
7,707
20,355
0
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
I’ve been one of the biggest critics of Cal on here for awhile now. I just don’t post as often as some. Some good discussions here. Believe it or not, even I don’t think the program is ruined. But the last few seasons were ruins imo. Starting in 15. One man isn’t going to ruin this program sucking for a few years. UK basketball is much bigger than that. We’ve had ups and downs since Rupp began, and we’ll have them again many times. These same discussions happened around the wood burning stoves in the 60’s. No one got banned, but a few left with bruises and black eyes. That’s the difference today. We all are behind keyboards, and there’s no having to defend, just deflect. As I’ve said, I’m patient. I can wait it out. Just don’t expect me to support what’s obvious to me a sinking ship. I’ve got better things to do.
 

ck-2

Heisman
Apr 7, 2007
11,306
19,154
113
Win you’re loved, lose and you’re hated. Doesn’t matter what your name is, political affiliation, race, age, etc.
Defenders will point to reasons why people turn on a coach but it all comes down to winning and losing.
 
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tomrain

All-Conference
Feb 18, 2004
882
1,397
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2010 WVU was the beginning. A team with 5 first-round draft picks, and 3 more guys who would eventually play in the NBA, was beaten by a simple zone defense. Looked clueless the entire game.

2014, lost to inferior talent, inferior depth, and an inferior coach. Were essentially beaten by two midget guards.

2015 ran into a very good team, but one that was outmatched from an athletic standpoint. All game long I watched as Wisconsin methodically moved the ball until they got the matchup they wanted, then exploited it. Meanwhile Kentucky struggled to get good looks and instead settled for low percentage, contested shots late in the clock. Sound familiar? Cal’s failure to prepare for his opponent was inexcusable. Cal also took the air out of the ball under 4 minutes, which resulted in the shot clock violations. We didn’t have a big enough lead to play that way.

2017, as poorly as that game was officiated, we had a 5-point lead late. Then Roy went to a zone and Kentucky had no answer for it. I mean no idea what to do at all. This is also the game when I realized that even if Cal could coach, he is universally hated by the officials and that will always be too much to overcome.

2018 lost to a crappy K-state team without their best player after getting a gift bracket. No excuse for that.

2019 Auburn was playing better late in the year, but was still outmatched, and were missing their best NBA prospect. Again we let a midget guard dominate us. Look at the careers Herro, Keldon, and PJ are having now. Not to mention we had a former All-Pac10 player in Travis. Where is ANYBODY from that Auburn team now?

Evansville.

Getting destroyed by Duke in front of the whole world.

9-16.

Saint Peter’s.

Losing the all-time wins lead.

Continuing to lose to mediocre teams in the same fashion year after year with no adjustments. Total refusal to play zone when it could have won us games, and by extension our team also has no idea how to score against a zone.

So as you can see it isn’t just one moment. It’s been a gradual thing. A snowball.
One of the best posts I've seen on here. My sentiments exactly.
* 2010. If my memory serves me correctly, they were down to one point guard, who had an injured shoulder and could only go left. Why we didnt exploit that by pressing and using our obvious advantage athletically. And no adjustments were ever made, hence we just kept firing 3's instead of using our size and superior talent. Clearly outcoached in this one.​
** outcoached by Kevin Ollie for a national championship.​
**outcoached by Bruce Weber when like you said they were mediocre to start with and were minus their best player and still beat a team with about 7-8 eventual NBA players on it.​
**calling timeouts in the crucial parts of the Wisky game and getting shot clock violations after a timeout. I think then I started wondering about his game management.​
***I think the Auburn game was when I finally gave it up. We had just beaten them a couple weeks earlier by about 30 points, then they lose their best player the game before and we come out and lay an egg. He just kept letting Hagans turn the ball over time and time again and wouldnt replace him with Quickly. But the most frustrating thing was they just spread the floor with 2 midget guards and whipped up time and time again to the basket off the dribble. Any coach with half brain wouldve went to a zone to stopped that.​
*** I used to live for Kentucky basketball games. My weekends were planned around them, I have 2 rooms of my house completely decorated with UK bball memorabilia. After the debacle the last couple years, I was actually excited again this year, hoping for a change. But I have come to the realization it is what it is and isnt exciting for me anymore. The excuses have gotten stale, as stale as having NO offensive scheme, NO out of bounds plays, NO zone defense to play when needed, not calling timeouts at the end of games, unexplainable substitution patterns, and sick and tired of losing to mediocre teams that have no business being on the same court as us, and celebrating when we barely beat unranked teams that we should have mopped the floor with.​
 
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WeWant9

Heisman
Dec 18, 2013
6,953
18,501
113
As others have said, I don’t think he has ruined the program. If Cal left today, I think there’d be a good amount of coaches interested in the job.

For me, 2018 was when I saw some issues with his style of coaching and roster management. That team was poorly put together, and we weren’t landing the top tier talent. Losing to Kansas St was pretty bad, especially with a wide open bracket.

Since then UK seems to follow the same trend. Start out slow and get beat by a power 5 foe and have a stinker vs a mid major. Slowly get it together towards the middle of the season and look like a contender, then teams figure it out and slow us down. Sleepwalk in the SEC tournament and eventually lose to an inferior team in the NCAAT.

I do think the last several seasons have created some apathy within BBN. A deep run this year would do a lot to get the juices flowing again. Just hope these guys can pull it together in time, because the fanbase is ready to go crazy for them.
 
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RalphDaltonFan

Heisman
Apr 3, 2002
60,185
41,603
113
This team has all the signs of a club going nowhere. Beating an average team like Michigan by 4. Getting embarrassed against teams that aren’t really any good like Gonzaga. SEC play is going to kill us and the Cal Cult is going to have to really ratchet up those excuses big time after this season.

Hope I’m wrong as always but I won’t be. How is this team going to go deep? How are they going to dominate the SEC? We don’t have the pieces, it’s not there.

We’re actually overrated at 16. With another coach maybe not but without scorers and with Calipari we won’t be ranked somewhere inside of SEC play.
As a fan who was high on their potential, I agree fully with your long term prognosis for this group Grom. As they currently operate, there's nothing that speaks to being anything more than a play in NCAA team. They don't do anything elite as a team. Individuals have talent but there's little cohesion on the court and mixing/matching is taking place too often for no apparent reason.

My biggest critique of what's changed in Cal since the '10-'14 seasons (yes I include '15 in the negative aspect of his approach)is how often he's allowing opponents to determine how the games are played. Using a premeditated approach in sports is awful. Games take on their own lives, and you have to adjust. Plans are great, but any coach who has coached at any level will tell you that more often than not you are adjusting on the fly. It could be due to your opponent's level of play but also is about who is/isn't playing well for your team. Key is to always make your opponent's weakness beat you and not their strength. That said, as everyone here who has read my criticism of the program about this particular aspect, it's how Cal lets the opponent dictate the pace of the game. It's maddening. It's also something you don't have to accept. Never let anyone tell you that you can't speed up your opponent. Absolutely incorrect. The fact is you can, but you also must be willing to accept you'll give up a few hoops while getting them to speed up and overtake an opponent.

Why is this is an issue? At Kentucky where you'll have an advantage you'll want to have more possessions in a game where your manpower advantage wins out. Cal had the deepest team in country and possibly in NCAA history in '15. Now think of how many games were close and scores were low due to allowing his opponents to slow them down, grind...and hope they would get a shot/break here or there. When you have that level of talent, you press and increase pace not because it's best say to play, but it's playing to your advantage as a program--depth/talent. More possessions, better team will win the game 99.9% of the time. That's any sport too. Not just Basketball. If you want to look at a team that Cal did a fantastic job of adjusting to pace it was '17 team. He really let them go and play aggressively. That season was his best coaching job since '14 Postseason IMO. After that...it's been too much of same and as he ages he's afraid of every opponent.

It's Kentucky--you take on big time games and you go in expecting to win. Who gives a crap what THEY are doing. It's Kentucky. Cal is now telling guys "We have to slow it down because Bellermine....." WTF?? **** them. UCLA was in 80s when they beat them. Yale? You are up 25-12 early, offensive attack is flowing and then predetermined subs come in and ruin the chemistry/flow of the game. I'll say this to his defense, if I were running a program, I'd want my top 8 to be guys who can/should get mins and rest should be developmental guys who will be seeing increased mins as careers advance. You'll only be playing 6/7 heavy mins and 8th is a role player usually. It's why '12 was actually higher quality depth then '15 when you think of how much the top 6 could do on the court with Wiltjer being a 3pt sniper as 7th. But at no damn point do I give a **** what "THEY" are doing. We are going to go in and set the tone and they have to adjust. If a player is off, find someone else. If that plan is being shredded, adjust but tone will be fast paced and up/down and aggressive. Cal's letting teams slow them down, his team is walking it up...and possessions are limited. Playing through Oscar isn't good for rest of team overall. It killed them in Michigan State game late.

Cal like most coaches think defensively but the issue is that defense wins games, offense wins championships. Your best defense is often your ability to score the ball. Hard for most to match that. He's got the personnel/potential but turn them loose and get after opponents. Quit living in fear. I mean UK smacks Vols a few years ago, crowd is busting their *** at Rupp and Cal is waving not to say "overrated". WTF?? Rick Barnes is a good regular season coach and a hack in big games. That is until he gets to face his good friend Cal. Then he treats him like a punk.

Whatever happened to the Cal who was willing to do whatever it took and didn't give a damn what everyone thought? Now he's running for office and approval for being a UN Ambassador. Want to do that? Cool. Then quit coaching basketball. Sports isn't about friendship or being fair, it's about doing what it takes to produce championships/wins. This isn't remotely close to the man who was hired and hard for soft older people to get that hate back. Hope it happens but hope isn't a plan nor is anything I'm seeing UK do on the court.
 

Ky_Bred_Cat

All-Conference
Dec 28, 2014
2,174
4,050
113
It's not ruined. But as Cal does, and no matter what he says, he has tried to make everything all about him. He's largely achieved that. In doing this the program priorities are all screwed up and it's lost, or is quickly losing, it's special place in the college basketball universe. This all started in 2010 when he got here. Ignoring this reality was easy, although dangerous, through his first years until 2015 came along. Since then our precious program has morphed into something almost unrecognizable. At least it feels that way.
 
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Catman100

Heisman
Jan 3, 2003
7,037
10,504
96
As a fan who was high on their potential, I agree fully with your long term prognosis for this group Grom. As they currently operate, there's nothing that speaks to being anything more than a play in NCAA team. They don't do anything elite as a team. Individuals have talent but there's little cohesion on the court and mixing/matching is taking place too often for no apparent reason.

My biggest critique of what's changed in Cal since the '10-'14 seasons (yes I include '15 in the negative aspect of his approach)is how often he's allowing opponents to determine how the games are played. Using a premeditated approach in sports is awful. Games take on their own lives, and you have to adjust. Plans are great, but any coach who has coached at any level will tell you that more often than not you are adjusting on the fly. It could be due to your opponent's level of play but also is about who is/isn't playing well for your team. Key is to always make your opponent's weakness beat you and not their strength. That said, as everyone here who has read my criticism of the program about this particular aspect, it's how Cal lets the opponent dictate the pace of the game. It's maddening. It's also something you don't have to accept. Never let anyone tell you that you can't speed up your opponent. Absolutely incorrect. The fact is you can, but you also must be willing to accept you'll give up a few hoops while getting them to speed up and overtake an opponent.

Why is this is an issue? At Kentucky where you'll have an advantage you'll want to have more possessions in a game where your manpower advantage wins out. Cal had the deepest team in country and possibly in NCAA history in '15. Now think of how many games were close and scores were low due to allowing his opponents to slow them down, grind...and hope they would get a shot/break here or there. When you have that level of talent, you press and increase pace not because it's best say to play, but it's playing to your advantage as a program--depth/talent. More possessions, better team will win the game 99.9% of the time. That's any sport too. Not just Basketball. If you want to look at a team that Cal did a fantastic job of adjusting to pace it was '17 team. He really let them go and play aggressively. That season was his best coaching job since '14 Postseason IMO. After that...it's been too much of same and as he ages he's afraid of every opponent.

It's Kentucky--you take on big time games and you go in expecting to win. Who gives a crap what THEY are doing. It's Kentucky. Cal is now telling guys "We have to slow it down because Bellermine....." WTF?? **** them. UCLA was in 80s when they beat them. Yale? You are up 25-12 early, offensive attack is flowing and then predetermined subs come in and ruin the chemistry/flow of the game. I'll say this to his defense, if I were running a program, I'd want my top 8 to be guys who can/should get mins and rest should be developmental guys who will be seeing increased mins as careers advance. You'll only be playing 6/7 heavy mins and 8th is a role player usually. It's why '12 was actually higher quality depth then '15 when you think of how much the top 6 could do on the court with Wiltjer being a 3pt sniper as 7th. But at no damn point do I give a **** what "THEY" are doing. We are going to go in and set the tone and they have to adjust. If a player is off, find someone else. If that plan is being shredded, adjust but tone will be fast paced and up/down and aggressive. Cal's letting teams slow them down, his team is walking it up...and possessions are limited. Playing through Oscar isn't good for rest of team overall. It killed them in Michigan State game late.

Cal like most coaches think defensively but the issue is that defense wins games, offense wins championships. Your best defense is often your ability to score the ball. Hard for most to match that. He's got the personnel/potential but turn them loose and get after opponents. Quit living in fear. I mean UK smacks Vols a few years ago, crowd is busting their *** at Rupp and Cal is waving not to say "overrated". WTF?? Rick Barnes is a good regular season coach and a hack in big games. That is until he gets to face his good friend Cal. Then he treats him like a punk.

Whatever happened to the Cal who was willing to do whatever it took and didn't give a damn what everyone thought? Now he's running for office and approval for being a UN Ambassador. Want to do that? Cool. Then quit coaching basketball. Sports isn't about friendship or being fair, it's about doing what it takes to produce championships/wins. This isn't remotely close to the man who was hired and hard for soft older people to get that hate back. Hope it happens but hope isn't a plan nor is anything I'm seeing UK do on the court.

Great, great post.

And you are absolutely correct. The offensive style of play hurts this team so much, as well as some past teams.. SOOO many grind it out games against inferior opponents.
Not fun, not entertaining, and not inspiring.

Anybody who doesn't see it that way doesn't know a lot about basketball.
 

UKfan2151

All-American
Oct 1, 2003
14,450
9,487
113
Draft night, 2010. That is when it started.

And had it not been for the NBA lockout and a couple of key guys coming back that otherwise wouldn't have come back, Cal doesn't win the title in 2012.

Could you imagine Cal with zero titles after being at UK all these years? Again, without the NBA lockout and Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb returning, we don't get that natty in 2012 and Cal would be second fiddle even to Tubby Smith.
 

BigBlueFanGA

Heisman
Jun 14, 2005
26,435
23,456
0
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
2012 ruined him. It convinced him his system of playing mostly freshmen in his dribble drive was the key to success. It only works if you have a future NBA Hall of Fame guy like AD. You can't just roll the ball out there Cal. You actually have to coach them up.
 
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BigBlueFanGA

Heisman
Jun 14, 2005
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Draft night, 2010. That is when it started.

And had it not been for the NBA lockout and a couple of key guys coming back that otherwise wouldn't have come back, Cal doesn't win the title in 2012.

Could you imagine Cal with zero titles after being at UK all these years? Again, without the NBA lockout and Terrence Jones and Doron Lamb returning, we don't get that natty in 2012 and Cal would be second fiddle even to Tubby Smith.
Cal is second fiddle to Tubby in every way other than draft picks. Hooray for Cal.
 

wildcat111

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Dec 9, 2020
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I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
Yes, 2015 Wisconsin loss.
 

Whatsup

All-American
Feb 15, 2011
8,987
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I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
Just what we needed another post trashing Cal. In this thread number 1, 295 you’ll find the same comments, from the same posters, repeating the same thing, they repeat in every thread about Cal, or any thread they can find to hijack by posting the same thing they post every time they post. You’re destroying this board with you silly *** threads. We all know that Cal needs to change the way he plays the kids on this team. We all know he needs to change the at he coaches. We are all upset about our team’s performance the last couple of years. Most agree that things need to change by next year with the kids we have coming into the program. Most are fed up with those calling Cal childish names that grade school kids would use. Some think UK should win a NC every year, which shows how crazy some people are. No one has ever done that and no one will ever accomplish that goal. Some have nothing better do do with their life, and spend way too much time thinking’s about what new thread they can start to trash Cal. Fact is Cal will leave when he is ready to leave and not before. Beware of what you ask for you just might get a beard. You would really have something to complain about then.
 
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calismyhero

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Jan 16, 2010
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I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
When he took it upon himself to anoint draft day as the greatest day in school history, it rankled me then, little did I know it was a sign of things to come
 

bigsmoothie

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Sep 7, 2004
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We are a Brandon Knight shot, and a couple Aaron Harrison shots away from REALLY hating CCC. Imagine for a second if those shots hadn’t fallen. How would that change his legacy, if you want to call it a legacy ???

I mean, we weren’t that great of a team either of those years. Just got a couple big shots to go at precise moments.
And they are a couple of shots from having 2 more titles.
 

KentuckyFlyer

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Jan 25, 2007
3,615
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He hasn't ruined the program. The current team is ranked in the top 15 in the nation and is moving in the right direction. Next season's recruiting class is ranked #1 by every service.

If you're looking for confirmation of your preferred bias, I'm sure you'll get it here. It's a matter of opinion and purely subjective to think the program is ruined. I guess you have to define the word "ruined" in this case.

Some have hated Calipari from the beginning, so for these folks the program was ruined the moment he was hired back in 2009. For others, it was ruined when the team failed to make the NCAA-T the year Nerlens Noel went down with a major injury. For others, it was when the 2014-15 team failed to win the title. For others, it was when the 2020-21 team went 9-16. For others, it was the loss to St Peter's in last season's NCAA-T. We've had 2 very tough seasons in a row without a doubt, one because the entire season was filled with losses (one of the worst in UK history) and the next because of a terrible loss in the NCAA-T. Things definitely need to improve this year. If they don't, Calipari will be feeling some real heat. Another early exit would be very bad.
You gotta be getting a kick back from ole triple c's. Currently in the top 15 with a team that has the talent to be rank #1 with the right coach. And even more astonishing is you actually believe that his 6th or 7th #1 rank recruiting class is gonna fair better than the previous 6 or 7? I'll bet if a nuke was on it way from China, and gonna hit Lexington in the next 3 minutes you would think UK will still beat UCLA...

FWIW, I was all about ccc even after 2015, was waning by 2021, St Pete was the straw. I hope an airplane engine falls on him,



Well, not really but almost.
 
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What an idiotic post. If you want to know what a ruined program looks like, look at UL. I’m sick and tired of you negative, fair weather fans who only want to ***** and whine. You’re an embarrassment to the BBN.
Nope, you are for wanting our traditions to die!
 

*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,078
83,942
113
I’m interested in everyone’s thoughts on what the turning point was where in your view Cal officially ruined the program. I have been having this debate all ninth at the bar and wanted to get the Board’s thoughts. There were a lot of differing viewpoints tonight.

Personally, my view is when he decided not to watch video against Wisconsin in 2015.
I’d have to agree that is the single worst decision I’ve ever seen him make.
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
46,078
83,942
113
2010 WVU was the beginning. A team with 5 first-round draft picks, and 3 more guys who would eventually play in the NBA, was beaten by a simple zone defense. Looked clueless the entire game.

2014, lost to inferior talent, inferior depth, and an inferior coach. Were essentially beaten by two midget guards.

2015 ran into a very good team, but one that was outmatched from an athletic standpoint. All game long I watched as Wisconsin methodically moved the ball until they got the matchup they wanted, then exploited it. Meanwhile Kentucky struggled to get good looks and instead settled for low percentage, contested shots late in the clock. Sound familiar? Cal’s failure to prepare for his opponent was inexcusable. Cal also took the air out of the ball under 4 minutes, which resulted in the shot clock violations. We didn’t have a big enough lead to play that way.

2017, as poorly as that game was officiated, we had a 5-point lead late. Then Roy went to a zone and Kentucky had no answer for it. I mean no idea what to do at all. This is also the game when I realized that even if Cal could coach, he is universally hated by the officials and that will always be too much to overcome.

2018 lost to a crappy K-state team without their best player after getting a gift bracket. No excuse for that.

2019 Auburn was playing better late in the year, but was still outmatched, and were missing their best NBA prospect. Again we let a midget guard dominate us. Look at the careers Herro, Keldon, and PJ are having now. Not to mention we had a former All-Pac10 player in Travis. Where is ANYBODY from that Auburn team now?

Evansville.

Getting destroyed by Duke in front of the whole world.

9-16.

Saint Peter’s.

Losing the all-time wins lead.

Continuing to lose to mediocre teams in the same fashion year after year with no adjustments. Total refusal to play zone when it could have won us games, and by extension our team also has no idea how to score against a zone.

So as you can see it isn’t just one moment. It’s been a gradual thing. A snowball.
This is true, it hurts bad. Even some of those losses I could live with. Most are inexcusable.
 

Wunky

Heisman
Jan 16, 2021
4,405
18,379
78
This is true, it hurts bad. Even some of those losses I could live with. Most are inexcusable.

A lot of the losses early in his tenure were acceptable because of the overall success we were having. 2010 was a gut punch at the time, but when we made the FF the next season and then won a title, it was forgotten. Similarly, 2014 and even 2015, while disappointing, were only a couple seasons removed from said title. We were contending every year, and the assumption was that would continue.

In hindsight though, it’s obvious those losses were due to poor preparation.
 

Mulder14

All-Conference
Feb 23, 2014
2,436
4,238
93
As a fan who was high on their potential, I agree fully with your long term prognosis for this group Grom. As they currently operate, there's nothing that speaks to being anything more than a play in NCAA team. They don't do anything elite as a team. Individuals have talent but there's little cohesion on the court and mixing/matching is taking place too often for no apparent reason.

My biggest critique of what's changed in Cal since the '10-'14 seasons (yes I include '15 in the negative aspect of his approach)is how often he's allowing opponents to determine how the games are played. Using a premeditated approach in sports is awful. Games take on their own lives, and you have to adjust. Plans are great, but any coach who has coached at any level will tell you that more often than not you are adjusting on the fly. It could be due to your opponent's level of play but also is about who is/isn't playing well for your team. Key is to always make your opponent's weakness beat you and not their strength. That said, as everyone here who has read my criticism of the program about this particular aspect, it's how Cal lets the opponent dictate the pace of the game. It's maddening. It's also something you don't have to accept. Never let anyone tell you that you can't speed up your opponent. Absolutely incorrect. The fact is you can, but you also must be willing to accept you'll give up a few hoops while getting them to speed up and overtake an opponent.

Why is this is an issue? At Kentucky where you'll have an advantage you'll want to have more possessions in a game where your manpower advantage wins out. Cal had the deepest team in country and possibly in NCAA history in '15. Now think of how many games were close and scores were low due to allowing his opponents to slow them down, grind...and hope they would get a shot/break here or there. When you have that level of talent, you press and increase pace not because it's best say to play, but it's playing to your advantage as a program--depth/talent. More possessions, better team will win the game 99.9% of the time. That's any sport too. Not just Basketball. If you want to look at a team that Cal did a fantastic job of adjusting to pace it was '17 team. He really let them go and play aggressively. That season was his best coaching job since '14 Postseason IMO. After that...it's been too much of same and as he ages he's afraid of every opponent.

It's Kentucky--you take on big time games and you go in expecting to win. Who gives a crap what THEY are doing. It's Kentucky. Cal is now telling guys "We have to slow it down because Bellermine....." WTF?? **** them. UCLA was in 80s when they beat them. Yale? You are up 25-12 early, offensive attack is flowing and then predetermined subs come in and ruin the chemistry/flow of the game. I'll say this to his defense, if I were running a program, I'd want my top 8 to be guys who can/should get mins and rest should be developmental guys who will be seeing increased mins as careers advance. You'll only be playing 6/7 heavy mins and 8th is a role player usually. It's why '12 was actually higher quality depth then '15 when you think of how much the top 6 could do on the court with Wiltjer being a 3pt sniper as 7th. But at no damn point do I give a **** what "THEY" are doing. We are going to go in and set the tone and they have to adjust. If a player is off, find someone else. If that plan is being shredded, adjust but tone will be fast paced and up/down and aggressive. Cal's letting teams slow them down, his team is walking it up...and possessions are limited. Playing through Oscar isn't good for rest of team overall. It killed them in Michigan State game late.

Cal like most coaches think defensively but the issue is that defense wins games, offense wins championships. Your best defense is often your ability to score the ball. Hard for most to match that. He's got the personnel/potential but turn them loose and get after opponents. Quit living in fear. I mean UK smacks Vols a few years ago, crowd is busting their *** at Rupp and Cal is waving not to say "overrated". WTF?? Rick Barnes is a good regular season coach and a hack in big games. That is until he gets to face his good friend Cal. Then he treats him like a punk.

Whatever happened to the Cal who was willing to do whatever it took and didn't give a damn what everyone thought? Now he's running for office and approval for being a UN Ambassador. Want to do that? Cool. Then quit coaching basketball. Sports isn't about friendship or being fair, it's about doing what it takes to produce championships/wins. This isn't remotely close to the man who was hired and hard for soft older people to get that hate back. Hope it happens but hope isn't a plan nor is anything I'm seeing UK do on the court.
Excellent post Ralph your best yet . The points about pace of play and a u.n. ambassador are spot on. I wish your friend would forward this to calipari
 

TankedCat

Heisman
Nov 8, 2006
22,792
21,500
0
To answer the OP's question - Diallo

That's when fans started really questioning his commitment to winning over his players first mantra, and that's about the time we got into that "playing for March" garbage as opposed to being a dominant team from the start.
 

Montana81

Heisman
Aug 12, 2004
82,726
29,410
113
I think he thought he could put it on cruise control, but it went sideways on him. He's trying to get it back, but he's refusing to adapt, he still prioritizes draft picks over UK and that just isn't going to work.

Next years class is great, if you like recruiting class banners, but it's a team full of freshmen playing in a mans league. That team has 10 losses written all over it. Maybe sweet 16.

This 22/23 team is the one he needs to do something with. He has all the pieces, but even the biggest Cal fan has to admit that this team is way behind and Cal is playing lineups that make no sense. It's like he'd rather get Collins to the draft, then win games, but the entire team has looked broken and uncoached to this point. That's on Cal, there is no excuse for this.

Again, the program isn't broken, but Calipari is.
I just don’t think cal has it in him anymore to do certain things you have to do as a coach to win big at this level. He can’t bring himself to bench wheeler in key moments. And i think it’s entirely because he likes the kid. (to his credit wheeler seems like a really good dude). but you’re being paid 9 large to win games. there’s going to be some tough decisions that have to be made.

I just wish that if he really doesn’t want to or can’t make this decisions anymore he’s step aside. The longer he waits to do so the more his legacy and reception around the state suffer.

I really like cal the person. I’d love for him to be able to ride off into the sunset here and call this place home. But you can’t tank the basketball program that is THE major common interest of the state on your way out.

I think if this season plays out the way it appears to be headed he could earn a lot of points if he just said, “i can’t do this anymore” and stepped down. I think a lot would be forgiven. But if he instead clings on to the bitter end…well…i think a LOT of kentuckians will hold that against him and not be so fond of his presence here.