Bill Self better than Cal?

[Seth_C]

I think at this point there is no debate. Bill Self is clearly a better basketball coach. Of course, he didn't quit learning and adapting 10 years ago, do that helps.

 

[blackcat714]

Does a bear crap in the woods same answer

 

[bigjonaoc]

Would you swap coaches with Kansas right now?

Up until last year, Self was known for losing early every year.

On the other side, Cal did smoke Self on his home court last year.

Self is the better coach but that is not saying much. Cal is not a great coach but he is a hell of a recruiter.

 

[KneeBurns]

Give me your reasons. Before last year, this board deemed him the worst due to his annual early departures in march...like clockwork. So does 1 year excuse all that, or did you think he was better all along?

Weird. Self has 9 elite 8 in 18 years at Kansas and 2 in his previous 4 at oral Bob and Illinois. Nobody can make deep runs every year


As to the question, Self and Cal are interchangeable and always have been. Recency bias is lame and it’s a fallacy anyway. Cal recruiting has not been affected at all by whatever woes his fans think he has now. And 2023 tourney is totally wide open anyway, anybody can take it.

 

[jjhagan7]

I wouldn't take Self over Calipari. Is Self a better on floor coach than Calipari, maybe, but I would take Calipari the man vs. Self the man.

Maybe?? Wow. Cal is a terrible floor coach. Do you watch the games?

 

[jjhagan7]

Self is the better coach but that is not saying much. Cal is not a great coach but he is a hell of a recruiter.

Was he a great recruiter without coach O?

 

[*CatinIL*]

Maybe?? Wow. Cal is a terrible floor coach. Do you watch the games?

Yes I watch them. Just pipe your *** down.

 

[jjhagan7]

Yes I watch them. Just pipe your *** down.

Im not talking about our volleyball team. Basketball? The team that has let us down for years with #1 and #2 recruiting classes.

 

[Dr. H Lecter]

I think the better question would be:

What coach is Cal better than?

 

[yoshukai]

Surely all you people talking about how much better Cal is as a person realize that outside of Kentucky, ZERO people think that . I would be willing to bet if you took the Uk fans and the KU fans out of the poll , Self would win in a landslide over who is the better person AND basketball coach. Myself, I can’t stand either one of them .

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Would you swap coaches with Kansas right now?

Up until last year, Self was known for losing early every year.

On the other side, Cal did smoke Self on his home court last year.

No

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Surely all you people talking about how much better Cal is as a person realize that outside of Kentucky, ZERO people think that . I would be willing to bet if you took the Uk fans and the KU fans out of the poll , Self would win in a landslide over who is the better person AND basketball coach. Myself, I can’t stand either one of them .

Who cares outside Kentucky.

 

[rabbitTown]

People must be forgetting Self went 14 years between his titles. If he won at UK in 2008 people would have been calling for his head a decade later.

Yeah, but KU wouldn't have taken over in all-time wins

 

[Ash Williams]

He's been at KU longer, and can you really compare the two intelligently by looking at rings? If Liggins makes that 3 against UConn, we win a title, which isn't in Caliparis hands. If the refs called the shot clock violation against Wisconsin, we win another title, another example of it not being in the coaches hands. If you look at the games, I think Cal has put UK in the running to win a title more than Self. Maybe Im wrong, but we're very very close to UK sitting on 3 rings instead of 1 in the last 10 years. And the reasons Cal doesn't have 3 rings cant be blamed on him. Thats like blaming Tom Brady for his receiver dropping the ball.

And if there isn't an NBA lockout, we don't win in 2012. The 'what if' game is stupid.

 

[SweetBabyJesus]

Ok here are the last 13 years for comparison for when Cal is at UK and Self at KU.

Calipari
365-101 overall record
173-54 conf record
78% overall Winning %
76% Conference Winning %
5x 30 Win Seasons
11x 25 Win Seasons
1x Losing Seasons
1x Losing Conference Seasons
6x conf championships
6x conf tournament championships
2x missed NCAA tournaments
3x #1 Seeds NCAA tournament
3x #2 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x #3 Seeds NCAA tournament
2x #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
2x Below #4 Seed NCAA tournament
1x 1st Rd NCAA tournament exit
1x 2nd Rd NCAA tournament exit
8x Sweet 16
7x Elite 8
4x Final 4
1x Runner Up
1x NCAA Championship
1x Naismith Coach of the Year
4x SEC Coach of the Year

Self
387-84 overall record
185-45 conf record
82% Overall Winning %
80% Conf Winning %
8x 30 Win Seasons
12x 25 Win Seasons
0x Losing Seasons
0x Losing Conference Seasons
11x Conf Championships
6x Conf Tournament Championships
0x Missed NCAA tournaments
7x #1 Seeds NCAA tournament
3x #2 Seeds NCAA tournament
1x #3 Seeds NCAA tournament
1x #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x Below #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x 1st Rd NCAA Tournament Exits
5x 2nd Rd NCAA Tournament Exits
7x Sweet 16
6x Elite 8
3x Final 4
1x Runner Up
1x NCAA Championship
1x Naismith Coach of the Year
4x Big XII Conf Coach of the Year

 

[James Arington]

Would you swap coaches with Kansas right now?

Up until last year, Self was known for losing early every year.

On the other side, Cal did smoke Self on his home court last year.

Who cares!

 

[giffhawk]

Self doesn't care about getting the #1 recruiting class in the country. He focuses on getting the right player for his program. The one thing that stands out to me is Self doesn't miss the NCAA tournament EVER. Self also hasn't had a losing season since he was at Oral Roberts.

Ok here are the last 13 years for comparison for when Cal is at UK and Self at KU.

Calipari
365-101 overall record
173-54 conf record
78% overall Winning %
76% Conference Winning %
5x 30 Win Seasons
11x 25 Win Seasons
1x Losing Seasons
1x Losing Conference Seasons
6x conf championships
6x conf tournament championships
2x missed NCAA tournaments
3x #1 Seeds NCAA tournament
3x #2 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x #3 Seeds NCAA tournament
2x #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
2x Below #4 Seed NCAA tournament
1x 1st Rd NCAA tournament exit
1x 2nd Rd NCAA tournament exit
8x Sweet 16
7x Elite 8
4x Final 4
1x Runner Up
1x NCAA Championship
1x Naismith Coach of the Year
4x SEC Coach of the Year

Self
387-84 overall record
185-45 conf record
82% Overall Winning %
80% Conf Winning %
8x 30 Win Seasons
12x 25 Win Seasons
0x Losing Seasons
0x Losing Conference Seasons
11x Conf Championships
6x Conf Tournament Championships
0x Missed NCAA tournaments
7x #1 Seeds NCAA tournament
3x #2 Seeds NCAA tournament
1x #3 Seeds NCAA tournament
1x #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x Below #4 Seeds NCAA tournament
0x 1st Rd NCAA Tournament Exits
5x 2nd Rd NCAA Tournament Exits
7x Sweet 16
6x Elite 8
3x Final 4
1x Runner Up
1x NCAA Championship
1x Naismith Coach of the Year
4x Big XII Conf Coach of the Year

 

[Burly]

Self and what sets him apart from Cal
Teaches drawing charges
Teaches hard hedges
Runs inbounds plays
Will zone if needed
Runs actual plays
Doesn’t talk like a carnival barker during interviews
Sets down and Coaches 50% of time

Cal does none of above
Bill Self is the better overall Coach

 

[CincyUKFan]

I wouldn't take Self over Calipari. Is Self a better on floor coach than Calipari, maybe, but I would take Calipari the man vs. Self the man.

There's no "maybe" about that.

If you want to argue that Self loses games he shouldn't in March. Fine. If you want to argue that Self seems like a deuchebag. Fine. But which one of these dudes is a better floor coach is not up for debate.

 

[bigjonaoc]

I think the better question would be:

What coach is Cal better than?

Kenny Payne

 

[RipThru]

Just curious, did you think Self was better last year when Cal creamed him on his home court? Or is this a recent change of heart?

Why do you keep repeating this? It's a snapshot in time, just like the St. Peters loss, not a way to judge coaches.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

Why do you keep repeating this? It's a snapshot in time, just like the St. Peters loss, not a way to judge coaches.

Because people like you that have no common sense need to be reminded constantly.

 

[RipThru]

Because people like you that have no common sense need to be reminded constantly.

YOU are a complete moron, and the entire board knows it. Apparently YOU think coaches should be judged on one game, so if you don't swallow Cal's balls, then you'd have to agree he should be fired after the St. Peters game. According to your logic....

 

[rabbitTown]

Yeah, but KU wouldn't have taken over in all-time wins

And, Self would likely pull much better players at UK than at KU.

 

[*CatinIL*]

YOU are a complete moron, and the entire board knows it. Apparently YOU think coaches should be judged on one game, so if you don't swallow Cal's balls, then you'd have to agree he should be fired after the St. Peters game. According to your logic....

Damn Rip...don't hold back, tells us how you really feel...

 

[Louis_Skunt]

Self has 2 titles

Kevin Ollie has a title, is he better than the vast majority of coaches?

 

[Joerules19]

Kevin Ollie has a title, is he better than the vast majority of coaches?

at this point, he is either an idiot or trolling..

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Surely all you people talking about how much better Cal is as a person realize that outside of Kentucky, ZERO people think that . I would be willing to bet if you took the Uk fans and the KU fans out of the poll , Self would win in a landslide over who is the better person AND basketball coach. Myself, I can’t stand either one of them .

That might have something to do with the fact that most fans outside of Kentucky that are fans of other schools hate UK.
I mean before he came here, there was many here that thought he was a slimeball. Putting aside the coaching tho, the man I feel has shown off the court time and time again to be a good person.

 

[sluggercatfan]

No.The cheating doesn't bother me much because the NCAA sucks but having thug players off the court is disgusting.

Yes, I like it better when we have ones that play CCC and the fan base and not play at all.

 

[yoshukai]

That might have something to do with the fact that most fans outside of Kentucky that are fans of other schools hate UK.
I mean before he came here, there was many here that thought he was a slimeball. Putting aside the coaching tho, the man I feel has shown off the court time and time again to be a good person.

Do fans of other schools hate Kentucky more than they hate Kansas or do UK fans just perceive it that way ? Just like you said, many here believed Calipari as a slimeball and most college basketball fans still do .

 

[The_Answer1313_rivals]

Do fans of other schools hate Kentucky more than they hate Kansas or do UK fans just perceive it that way ? Just like you said, many here believed Calipari as a slimeball and most college basketball fans still do .

I think it's part hate for UK but also hate for Calipari based on what he's done not just as UK but Memphis and Umass I guess the point here is I'm not really sure we should base whether or not Cal is a good person by what fans of other teams think of him.
I mean the telethons, the recent thing he did for that coal miner and his family, the fact that he clearly cares a lot about his players. I mean regardless of what people might think of his style of coaching or on the court results, I think it's pretty clear he's a genuinely good person.

Even like when social media posted about that story with the coal miner, I would see so many posts basically starting off with "I don't like Cal, HOWEVER....". People can see it.

FWIW it's not to say Self isn't. I have no clue. But Cal has been here for 10+ years and I feel pretty confident in saying he's a good person.

 

[LineSkiCat14]

I think it's part hate for UK but also hate for Calipari based on what he's done not just as UK but Memphis and Umass I guess the point here is I'm not really sure we should base whether or not Cal is a good person by what fans of other teams think of him.
I mean the telethons, the recent thing he did for that coal miner and his family, the fact that he clearly cares a lot about his players. I mean regardless of what people might think of his style of coaching or on the court results, I think it's pretty clear he's a genuinely good person.

Even like when social media posted about that story with the coal miner, I would see so many posts basically starting off with "I don't like Cal, HOWEVER....". People can see it.

FWIW it's not to say Self isn't. I have no clue. But Cal has been here for 10+ years and I feel pretty confident in saying he's a good person.

There's also a bit of recency bias here. Kansas has had a great past year.

But you go back 5 years ago and no one is taking Bill Self over Cal, regardless of what you think of Bill Selfs coaching.

Also, what do we make of his early tournament exits? He has like 3 or 4x as many BAD tournament losses as Cal has. What's the reason there? Because if it's bad coaching when Cal loses to St. Peter's, than I'd assume it's the same when Self loses to Bucknell, Bentley, UNI, etc etc etc.