Question for the Gun law experts.
- Thread starter tbaydog
- Start date
There is no such thing as registering a gun in America.
There is no data base showing who owns what gun. When you purchase a new gun in a Gun store and they call in to get approval, the government only knows you are buying a gun, not what you have bought nor the serial numbers of what you buy. If a gun is used in a crime, law enforcement has to contact the manufacture to find out which distributor it was sold to. They then have to contact the distributor to find out which dealer it was sold to. They then have to contact the dealer who will have to search, most of the time manually, through all those forms to find out who they sold it to. The BS you see on TV about a cop typing in a computer and coming back with who a gun is registered to is just that, BS. There is a paper trail on new gun purchases but that trail stops at your local dealer because that form you fill out never goes beyond his shop. If a gun shop closes or changes dealer license names, all previous forms are supposed to be given to the government but they are not entered in a data base, they are just stored in paper form.
There is no data base showing who owns what gun. When you purchase a new gun in a Gun store and they call in to get approval, the government only knows you are buying a gun, not what you have bought nor the serial numbers of what you buy. If a gun is used in a crime, law enforcement has to contact the manufacture to find out which distributor it was sold to. They then have to contact the distributor to find out which dealer it was sold to. They then have to contact the dealer who will have to search, most of the time manually, through all those forms to find out who they sold it to. The BS you see on TV about a cop typing in a computer and coming back with who a gun is registered to is just that, BS. There is a paper trail on new gun purchases but that trail stops at your local dealer because that form you fill out never goes beyond his shop. If a gun shop closes or changes dealer license names, all previous forms are supposed to be given to the government but they are not entered in a data base, they are just stored in paper form.
Thanks for the info. I've always wondered this. I knew I never "registered" my guns and that my name was not in some database but I wasn't sure the exact procedure. Good info to know.
You may want to check the State laws of California, New York, Hawaii, and a couple of others before making that bold of a claim. There's no national registry, but some states have registration requirements. Most do not, and the ones that do might exempt the OP's gun both on the grounds of inheritance and being a historical gun. I think Hawaii has a pretty strict registration requirement.
You must determine if it's an NFA weapon: https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/national-firearms-act-nfa. Get some competent legal advice from someone that knows federal and state gun laws, especially if you think it is (an NFA weapon).
Do you want the government to come take it from you when our nation's collective brains finally fall out?
Efficiency at its finest. I almost bought a gun shop a few years back and spent a lot of free time working in the shop and had to search for a few forms during that time. If you don't have a good idea as to when the gun was purchased from the distributor or sold to the customer then you literally have to sit down with the log books and hunt the serial number. Once you find that in the log book, you have the date it was sold, then you have to go search through that quarters forms in the filing cabinet in order to find the customers name. To clarify my previous post, there is no national registry nor a Ms registry for firearms, can't speak for the socialist states.
Ahh...yes..the infamous "the gubment is going to git all our guns". That is truly hilarious.
Because it has never happened before, has it? Why do so many folks have such a problem with this? Or is this a liberal tactic of demeaning your opponent? You know, one of the "rules for radicals" from one of the books that ya'll subscribe to.
It is going to be an ugly 17'n day when ya'll try it. Black flags will be hoisted everywhere.
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You should live in Australia. You would really enjoy all their citizens patting you on the back about how right you are on this point. Y'all could laugh about how stupid people are to worry that a government might try to confiscate guns.
I guess it also weirds me out that there's this almost fantasy some seem to have about having a shoot out with the government - like they're HOPING & PRAYING for the day it happens.
I like guns, I have a safe full of 'em & a conceal carry license. But I'll never understand the fetishization some people have with them. None of this directed personally at you Al S, your comments merely made me think of it.
I like guns, I have a safe full of 'em & a conceal carry license. But I'll never understand the fetishization some people have with them. None of this directed personally at you Al S, your comments merely made me think of it.
I'm sorry...this is all kinds of incorrect
Any federal arms dealer (i.e. anyone who sells guns are as a business) is required to submit paperwork to ATF regarding who purchased the gun along with make, model and serial number. the feds do regular audits on this and if they find that a dealer is not in compliance with it...well...things get bad for the dealer. That phone call they make is simply to ascertain whether or not the individual buying the gun is a convicted felon. Convicted felons may not legally buy a gun. I believe a gun dealer has maybe 24 hours to submit the proper forms to ATF. This database is maintained by the feds and is absolutely, 100% searchable by law enforcement. Now...if the buyer turns around and sells it to someone else (privately) then that is not tracked. The ATF just maintains a database of persons who bought their guns through a legitimate seller. It is the private sellers responsibility to make sure the purchaser is not a convicted felon though. You can catch some serious charges for selling to a convicted felon even if you were unaware that they are a felon.
Any federal arms dealer (i.e. anyone who sells guns are as a business) is required to submit paperwork to ATF regarding who purchased the gun along with make, model and serial number. the feds do regular audits on this and if they find that a dealer is not in compliance with it...well...things get bad for the dealer. That phone call they make is simply to ascertain whether or not the individual buying the gun is a convicted felon. Convicted felons may not legally buy a gun. I believe a gun dealer has maybe 24 hours to submit the proper forms to ATF. This database is maintained by the feds and is absolutely, 100% searchable by law enforcement. Now...if the buyer turns around and sells it to someone else (privately) then that is not tracked. The ATF just maintains a database of persons who bought their guns through a legitimate seller. It is the private sellers responsibility to make sure the purchaser is not a convicted felon though. You can catch some serious charges for selling to a convicted felon even if you were unaware that they are a felon.
Perhaps my native american heritage has me cynical or the left's inability to grasp facts that tighter gun control doesn't work. If they can't grasp that fact or aren't willing to recognize it and work from there, who knows what's next? Maybe we will go back to bleeding people to cure them of illness...
Why would I compare other countries when I can look at Chicago, DC, etc. and see that when I overlay gun violence with gun policy the most violent places have the toughest laws? I do applaud your attempt to ignore the most available data about how it works in the US. You might note that the US was founded because its founders wouldn't abide the crap thrown on them by their oppressive governments. It may be your goal that the US be more like other countries, but it is not one of mine.
Why do you think it worked well for them? The drop in gun deaths after the law change doesn't look hugely different from the drop in murder rates in the U.S. over the same time. Looks like their gun deaths dropped around 55% from '93 to 2012 where as our murder rates dropped about 45% over the same time period. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-gun-violence-in-the-united-states-heres-why/
Maybe their suicide rates stayed level and murders dropped? Also doesn't look like it resulted in any decrease in violent crime in Australia.
You shouldn't be a smart *** while also making dumb mistakes. Yes, people can show countries with tighter gun laws and lower gun violence and people can show examples of countries with tighter gun laws and higher gun violence. LIkewise, they can show countries with looser gun laws that have lower gun violence, and countries with looser gun laws that have higher gun violence. So finding an example of a place with tighter gun laws with lower rates of gun violence doesn't disprove a categorical statement that tighter gun laws don't work.
Ah, yes. The infamous Chicago citation.
Straw sales are part of a problem of not maintaining a registry, if you want to bring that one into the argument. NYC and their relative lack of gun crime despite pretty restrictions on firearms, would also be a part of that too.
Straw sales in Chicago aren't a problem because of the existence or non-existence of a registry. It's actually policy in Chicago to not go after straw purchasers. Bad politics to go after girlfriends and grandmothers of gang members, even if prosecuting them would be a common sense way to help keep felons from acquiring guns.
You could not be more wrong. Dawgbite, actually nailed exactly how the process works. Nothing goes to the Feds. All 4473s remain "in house" and Uncle Sam doesn't even know for sure that you purchased a firearm. They just know that a background check was processed.
I wonder
what those numbers look like when you sort out guns used in the death that were held legally/illegally?
what those numbers look like when you sort out guns used in the death that were held legally/illegally?
That's funny. Just today I ran an eTrace through the ATF on three guns by make, model, and serial number. Got last owner name and address in under 30 minutes back on them. But what do I know????
ETA: I'm out this isn't even worth arguing over. Believe what you want to but I promise you that I'm right.
ETA: I'm out this isn't even worth arguing over. Believe what you want to but I promise you that I'm right.
Folks say the ATF violates the1986 Firearms Owners’ Protection Act 18 U.S.C. 926(a)
The NFA rules are changing on July 13th and may cost more or be harder to get your goods. I have not read into the changes but my friend who does custom builds was telling me about the change.
The NFA rules are changing on July 13th and may cost more or be harder to get your goods. I have not read into the changes but my friend who does custom builds was telling me about the change.
The short answer is that a national gun database is illegal.
However, the ATF has been skirting the law in a variety of ways, so a database of some size exists. Depending on where a gun was purchased, it could very well be in their electronic system and immediately accessible. Others will require manual searching and a longer turnaround time, and if a store you purchased from is still open and has never had a reason to turn over related old records to the authorities, it shouldn't be accessible at all.
However, the ATF has been skirting the law in a variety of ways, so a database of some size exists. Depending on where a gun was purchased, it could very well be in their electronic system and immediately accessible. Others will require manual searching and a longer turnaround time, and if a store you purchased from is still open and has never had a reason to turn over related old records to the authorities, it shouldn't be accessible at all.
Apologies. I misinterpreted sarcasterisks. Don't work and Sixpack. Now I gotta go check my work and make sure i didn't gun rant in some customer email...
actually, that's exactly what it does
Your statement that "tighter gun laws don't work," is absolute, so a single contrary example disproves it. The same example does NOT prove that tighter gun laws ALWAYS work. It is wise to not participate in philosophical arguments without a basic understanding of logic. Just sayin'.
Your statement that "tighter gun laws don't work," is absolute, so a single contrary example disproves it. The same example does NOT prove that tighter gun laws ALWAYS work. It is wise to not participate in philosophical arguments without a basic understanding of logic. Just sayin'.
We routinely get trace requests called in. I don't know how an "e-trace" would work so quickly- but when we get a request called in, they tell us who shipped it to us, when, and the serial number. Then we check out records to see who it was sold to and when, I have to find the 4473 and fax it in.
BELdawg is right that we don't submit that paperwork to anyone until they request a trace on a specific gun.
The exception to that is when someone buys multiple handguns at a time or in a brief period , we have to report that to local and state authorities.
BELdawg is right that we don't submit that paperwork to anyone until they request a trace on a specific gun.
The exception to that is when someone buys multiple handguns at a time or in a brief period , we have to report that to local and state authorities.
No, a single example would disprove a statement that tighter gun laws always result in a higher rate of gun violence. But a single example of a country with tighter gun laws and lower gun violence is perfectly consistent with gun control not working. That would just be a country that has lower rates of violence for other reasons.
Wow. I stand by previous advice. You clearly have little/no understanding of logic, cause-effect, correlation, outliers, or the word "consistent."
Do you really not understand why you're wrong? Or do you understand and that's why you're not trying to explain anything and instead are just throwing out words?
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