Via SPS SID 8dog - Arizona Friday Starter...

[dawgstudent]

threw 198 pitches over the weekend with 1/2 coming yesterday.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I hope they try to throw him on Friday.

 

[dawgstudent]

He threw 96 pitches Friday and 102 in the first game on Monday.

 

[57stratdawg]

Maybe I'm alone, but I don't think this is a huge deal.

 

[rugbdawg]

Yea. Don't think this is a big deal for the short term.

 

[dawgstudent]

If he's their #1 starter - how is that not a big deal?

 

[kendesu]

In addition to Bannister starting two games, Dalbec and Ginkel both started a game and came out of the bullpen. They lean heavily on those three pitchers.

Lafayette Regional:
Bannister, Dalbec, and Ginkel: 30.0 IP, 2.40 ERA, 420 total pitches
The other eight pitchers: 14.0 IP, 8.36 ERA, 220 total pitches

 

[patdog]

This is why I think the regional format is criminal. Coaches have to make a choice of whether to risk ruining a kids arm of winning a big game. Need to go to 3 rounds of best 2 of 3 series to get to Omaha. Works to our advantage this weekend though. Especially with the series starting Friday. You have to think their starters yesterday either won't be available or will have tired sore arms.

 

[121Josey]

This is why I think the regional format is criminal. Coaches have to make a choice of whether to risk ruining a kids arm of winning a big game. Need to go to 3 rounds of best 2 of 3 series to get to Omaha. Works to our advantage this weekend though. Especially with the series starting Friday. You have to think their starters yesterday either won't be available or will have tired sore arms.

Doubt that solves the problem there, Skipper. Probably will exacerbate it.

 

[johnson86-1]

If he's their #1 starter - how is that not a big deal?

I would say it just depends on how it affects him. Pitchers used to throw a lot more on shorter rest. At some point, that pace is going to catch up to him and impact his performance. Not sure it will be this weekend though. Certainly can't hurt though.

 

[NCDawg.sixpack]

I didn't keep up with them so I don't know all their pitchers, but I did see the left handed guy they put in last night to close the deal. He looked pretty good.

 

[patdog]

How do? You'd go from 5 games in a weekend to 3. You wouldn't see pitchers coming back on 2 days rest because the series would be over.

 

[thekimmer]

Well, since we have to face him anyway I would rather it be when he might not have a full tank. That's a lot of pitches thrown within a short time to come back with 3-4 days rest.

 

[121Josey]

How do? You'd go from 5 games in a weekend to 3. You wouldn't see pitchers coming back on 2 days rest because the series would be over.

Yeah, going on 2 days rest never happens in a conference tournament, so it wouldn't happen in the game-series. And I'm sure you know that not everyone plays 5 games in a regional.**

 

[121Josey]

Maybe I'm alone, but I don't think this is a huge deal.

I think you're standing in the corner alone on this one, mate. The dude picks up the win on Friday. He comes back on 3 days rest (Monday) to pick up the save - in the morning game! Then takes the mound in the night-cap and picks up the win! So it's no big deal to turn around on 4-5 days rest? C'mon man.

The Cats advanced Monday thanks to excellent pitching from right-hander Kevin Ginkel and left-hander Cameron Ming. Ginkel, who earned the save in the first game Monday, started in the nightcap and went 5 2/3 innings, allowing one run on four hits and two walks. He struck out three. He gave way to Ming in the sixth, and the lefty carried it the rest of the way.

 

[bulldognation]

Last night announcers said Arizona coach promised them they'd make a regional this year. The way I see it, he achieved his goal and beyond by winning it. Everything beyond this is gravy. That leads me to believe they're playing with house money and therefore they'll be more willing to take risks and shoot for the moon. Could be dangerous for us if they can start stringing together hits or we gift them walks.
They've already proven they can take a team to the limit and deliver on fumes.
We better bring shut down pitching and defense.
Then again, I also thought LaTech or Fullerton would knock us around at least once.

 

[8dog]

Agree. Three game series throughout would end all this nonsense. No one throws a guy on friday and then again on sunday.

It also mimmicks the season better. You play all year one way and then get thrust into this crazy 4 team 3-4 day tourney. At least omahas tourney portion is more spread out

 

[ronpolk]

Yea. Don't think this is a big deal for the short term.

How could something like this not be a big deal short term? Hell why would it even matter long term? The guy may pitch lights out Friday night but you can't name too many coaches who would say that was a good thing for the kid to throw that many pitches.

 

[121Josey]

Agree. Three game series throughout would end all this nonsense. No one throws a guy on friday and then again on sunday

Never happens.

#44 LUCCHESI, Joey - 17 appearances (All games)

Feb 19, 2016	at	Lamar	*	6.0	4	2	2	3	9	0	0	0	0	1	0	0	1-2	0-1	0	3.00	101
	Feb 26, 2016	at	Arkansas-Pine Bluff	*	7.0	0	0	0	0	11	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	10-0	1-1	0	1.38	85
	Mar 04, 2016		CENTRAL ARKANSAS	*	7.0	5	0	0	5	9	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	6-0	2-1	0	0.90	119
	Mar 11, 2016	at	Eastern Kentucky	*	9.0	8	1	1	2	13	1	0	0	0	0	0	0	2-1	3-1	0	0.93	136
	Mar 18, 2016		MOREHEAD STATE	*	8.0	3	1	1	3	10	0	0	1	0	0	0	0	5-1	4-1	0	0.97	132
	Mar 24, 2016	at	UT Martin	*	5.2	7	3	3	4	8	1	1	0	1	0	0	0	19-6	5-1	0	1.48	116
	Apr 01, 2016		SIUE	*	6.0	5	0	0	2	5	0	0	0	0	0	1	0	9-5	6-1	0	1.29	99
	Apr 08, 2016	at	Austin Peay	*	6.0	8	6	2	0	6	1	0	0	0	0	1	0	1-6	6-2	0	1.48	92
	Apr 15, 2016		EASTERN ILLINOIS	*	7.0	5	1	0	1	8	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	15-1	7-2	0	1.31	111
	Apr 22, 2016	at	Jacksonville State	*	5.0	5	4	4	5	9	0	1	0	1	1	0	0	2-6	7-3	0	1.76	89
	Apr 28, 2016		MURRAY STATE	*	8.0	6	1	1	2	17	0	0	0	1	0	0	0	10-3	8-3	0	1.69	126
	May 06, 2016	at	Tennessee Tech	*	6.0	9	6	4	3	10	2	0	1	1	0	0	0	2-7	8-4	0	2.01	118
	May 13, 2016		STEPHEN F AUSTIN	*	7.0	7	2	2	2	8	2	1	0	0	0	0	0	2-3	8-4	0	2.05	108
	May 19, 2016		BELMONT	*	6.0	6	2	2	2	13	1	0	1	1	0	0	0	9-2	9-4	0	2.11	118
	May 27, 2016	vs	Morehead State	*	9.0	7	0	0	3	6	2	0	0	0	0	0	0	3-0	10-4	0	1.93	119
	May 29, 2016	vs	Jacksonville State-2		3.0	1	0	0	0	3	0	0	0	0	0	0	0	14-8	10-4	1	1.87	35
	Jun 03, 2016	at	Mississippi State	*	5.1	10	7	5	0	4	0	0	2	0	0	1	0	5-9	10-5	1	2.19	85

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[8dog]

I stand corrected. But i doubt you see it near as much as the friday-monday. Especially since its a normal three game series and you arent playing an inordinate amt of games in a short time frame. Like in that example. They played 4 games in 2 days. And thats kind of the point. The format leads to dangerous stuff

 

[Digging dog]

Maybe he will have arms like Kermit the Frog.

 

[rugbdawg]

Long term overuse with number of pitches thrown and not enough rest in between starts destroys kid's arms and their professional careers. It's well documented. It's the longterm overall wear on the arm that is terrible.

But, in the short term, it's not necessarily a big deal. Pitchers are built differently and recover differently.

 

[John Lorry]

If nothing else, it may at least be anecdotal evidence that heavy usage has tangible effects on a pitchers effectiveness (at least, most of the time). Probably apples to oranges but, Bleacher Report put out an article some time ago discussing whether throwing pitchers on short rest pays off in the post season in the MLB. The conclusion:

Starts	IP	ERA	WHIP	K/9	BB/9	H/9	HR/9	Avg. GSc	Team Record
54	287.0	4.80	1.42	8.2	3.5	9.2	1.1	48.7	20-34

<caption style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0.5em; border-width: 0px 0px 4px; border-bottom-style: solid; border-bottom-color: rgb(239, 63, 35); outline: 0px; font-size: 20px; vertical-align: baseline; background-color: rgb(248, 248, 248); height: 40px; line-height: 40px; white-space: nowrap; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; text-align: left;">Postseason Starts on Short Rest, 2000-2013</caption><tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background-position: 0px 0px;">
</tbody>

Baseball-Reference.com​

The K/9 here could be worse, but the other numbers aren't very ace-like. A 4.80 ERA is the mark of, at best, an average collection of starters. The same goes for the walk, hit and home run numbers, and that collective game score of 48.7 is a step down from the starting point of 50.
On top of all this is the teams' record in these 54 games. Clubs that have trotted starting pitchers out on short rest since 2000 have won 20 games and lost 34.
True, wins and losses often have little to do with how good the starting pitching was on a particular day. That 20-34 record is worth pointing out in this case, however, because it shows how teams that have started pitchers on short rest in recent postseasons haven't tended to get the desired effect.
Knowing all this, the programmed reaction we have to a team deciding to start a pitcher on short rest in the postseason is a valid one. The likelihood of the decision backfiring would appear to be higher than that of the decision having the desired effect.
Short version: History says that starting a pitcher in a playoff game on short rest isn't going to pay off.

Link

Fatigue has to play some role, though I'm sure there are exceptions.

 

[121Josey]

I stand corrected. But i doubt you see it near as much as the friday-monday. Especially since its a normal three game series and you arent playing an inordinate amt of games in a short time frame. Like in that example. They played 4 games in 2 days. And thats kind of the point. The format leads to dangerous stuff

When a coach is desperate, a coach will resort to desperate measures. Having double elimination tourney means that a team cannot advance by one pitcher picking up two wins.

 

[121Josey]

Pitchers are built differently and recover differently.

Recovery is the key word here.

 

[57stratdawg]

I've seen people saying it will impact his draft stock. That seems pretty over the top to me. I'm sure he'll be ready to pitch on Friday against us.

If he was used like this for a prolong period of time, It would seem like a bigger deal.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Maybe I'm alone, but I don't think this is a huge deal.

While college baseball does not equal MLB, 4-days rest is the usual 'minimum' they give their starters in the majors. When teams sometimes have their 'ace' pitch on 3-days rest, statistically, they DON"T pitch well. 'Ace' pitcher Clayton Kershaw in the 2014 playoffs is a perfect example.an example.

Only RARELY will you ever see a pitcher pitch and pitch well on 2-days rest. In 2014, Madison Bumgarner pitched on only 2-days and many called it a 'legendary, impossible, once-in-a-lifetime performance.' Yes, Curt Schilling went on short rest twice in the 2001 postseason and there have been others.

Yes, 50 years ago, pitchers went on 3, 2 and even 1-day rests BUT teams usually had fewer 'starters' and teams didn't pay starting pitchers $30M+ a year either.

Bottom line .. "Starts on short rest in the postseason HAVE NOT tended to go well." Good article on the subject .. here

 

[patdog]

They did pitch him on 1 day of rest, but only in their 5th game in 48 hours. Which is exactly my point. You would almost never see that in a best 2 of 3 series. The tournament formats almost force it.

 

[dawgstudent]

But if he has a shorter hook b/c of pitch count - then it's a big deal. We could get to their bullpen after 4 or 5 innings.

 

[benatmsu]

He Does. Here he is pitching to one of those ULL woolybooger bastards

View attachment 4210

Maybe he will have arms like Kermit the Frog.

 

[Dog of Tillo]

Bobby Reed approves of this thread....

 

[The_Pylon]

Proud to give this my first CoolDawg

is that marrero behind the plate?

 

[121Josey]

They did pitch him on 1 day of rest, but only in their 5th game in 48 hours. Which is exactly my point. You would almost never see that in a best 2 of 3 series. The tournament formats almost force it.

I see the point of the 5th game in three days. They even had a bye in the first round. However, they are the ones who threw their ace in the first game and then got beat in the second game. They are the ones who had 50 games to prepare a pitching staff for 5 games in three days. The coach makes that decision, and not anybody else.

But yes, let's either shrink the field or add a week to the schedule because some coaches ruin players' careers to advance. The point still stands that whether 5 games in 3 days or 3 games in 3 days, a desperate coach will resort to desperate measures.

 

[Bulldogg31]

View attachment 4210

Fozzie was underrated as a catcher.

 

[thekimmer]

True but the guy threw 200 pitches in 4 days with the last outing just Monday. He's not superman. He will probably be effective but odds are he will not have the stamina he would have after a more normal rotation and rest. But that's their worry not ours. I'm just happy with any potential edge we can get. If we believe he might have a short shelf life because of overwork then we need to try and get his pitch count up.