Is this team deeper than 2015?
- Thread starter richbrookstomato
- Start date
Well there is the typical *** clown we were expecting right on cue
Let them play 8 or 9 games then we will know for sure what team is the best. i think it is very very close
KMA buddy. Cal has taken the gas about 4-5 times in the tournament, each time keeping us from number 9. Are you that stupid or do u not know anything about basketball?
Deeper team vs more talented,deeper team are two different things. Yes this UK team is deep...No arguing that. BUT, the talent gap is pretty big, IMO.
KAT vs Oscar---the numbers obviously are close, but the talent is not. KAT could score w/o the help of an offensive rebound. I love Oscar, but he is nowhere near what KAT was.
WCS vs Toppin: Right now----just no. WCS was a dominant, and freak defender, who could defend 1-5. On top of that, he had 6 double-doubles, and was on the cusp of one every night(so it seemed). An elite defender. Right now, its not close. Not talent wise, nor production.
Lyles vs Collins----No
Either Harrisons, Ulis.Booker vs Wheeler, CJ, Reeves, Wallace----Just no. Maybe Wallace gets an NBA look----no one else seriously will.
Alex vs Livingston---Nope...Nope and Nope. Pre-injury Poythress was so fun---And really good. Hard to compare a Junior to a freshman. But that's what it is. IF Livingston AS A FRESH is better than Poythress? Who, boy...
Dakari was buried by BIG TIME talent.....but whats lost is how good he was. He's amuch better option than Ware...Not even close, tbh.
Lee/Willis vs Therio/Kinglesy? I dunno. Lee was an athlete stuck in a basketball game...Willis became decent. Really a meaningless comparison, ans I don't see either contributing much this year..
2022-23 UK has a chance to be really good, and may pan out to be as good----But I wouldn't count on that. 2014-15 UK was not only deep, but they were deep in talent, and experience. And loaded with NBA talent, and TWO NBA All-Stars. I don't see any lotto picks on this team----much less a Devin Booker or KAT...
KAT vs Oscar---the numbers obviously are close, but the talent is not. KAT could score w/o the help of an offensive rebound. I love Oscar, but he is nowhere near what KAT was.
WCS vs Toppin: Right now----just no. WCS was a dominant, and freak defender, who could defend 1-5. On top of that, he had 6 double-doubles, and was on the cusp of one every night(so it seemed). An elite defender. Right now, its not close. Not talent wise, nor production.
Lyles vs Collins----No
Either Harrisons, Ulis.Booker vs Wheeler, CJ, Reeves, Wallace----Just no. Maybe Wallace gets an NBA look----no one else seriously will.
Alex vs Livingston---Nope...Nope and Nope. Pre-injury Poythress was so fun---And really good. Hard to compare a Junior to a freshman. But that's what it is. IF Livingston AS A FRESH is better than Poythress? Who, boy...
Dakari was buried by BIG TIME talent.....but whats lost is how good he was. He's amuch better option than Ware...Not even close, tbh.
Lee/Willis vs Therio/Kinglesy? I dunno. Lee was an athlete stuck in a basketball game...Willis became decent. Really a meaningless comparison, ans I don't see either contributing much this year..
2022-23 UK has a chance to be really good, and may pan out to be as good----But I wouldn't count on that. 2014-15 UK was not only deep, but they were deep in talent, and experience. And loaded with NBA talent, and TWO NBA All-Stars. I don't see any lotto picks on this team----much less a Devin Booker or KAT...
Deeper than a team that went undefeated until the FF, with the #1 pick that draft? This year’s team, if they make it that far, will be sitting on 6-8 loses minimum.
I just hope when the time comes, they are not the odds on favorite to win it all! Those teams almost NEVER win the championship. Hmm, I wonder why?
I just hope when the time comes, they are not the odds on favorite to win it all! Those teams almost NEVER win the championship. Hmm, I wonder why?
I can't see where I'm going when I'm walking backwards, so ask me in April
I don’t know about “far superior”. Offense was about even, defense I give the edge to KAT (who blocked more shots than WCS), rebounding yeah it’s Oscar and not even close. I would take Oscar, but KAT not too far behind.
Good points...
Per 40 rounded to nearest whole number...
Oscar
22ppg, 19rpg, 1apg, 2bpg, 2spg, 2topg, 61%FG
KAT
20ppg, 13rpg, 2apg, 4bpg, 1spg, 3topg, 56%FG
The one big thing that stands out is win share. Oscar at 8 to KAT 6.4. PER is 36 to 31.
Cal has always put shot blocking and defense over guys that can shoot.
He will always jam that square peg into that round hole until he hangs it up.
In todays game, shot blocking is not that important.
I would rather hit 2 or 3 more threes per game than get two blocks.
There is Mr positive again. Cal sucks as usual. We got it Jeff.
Read it again. I stated a fact. I never said anything about Cal sucking, I simply made a very true statement that falls in line with the thread topic.
What is positive about Cal will always jam that square peg into a round hole? There is nothing true or positive about that statement. You love to throw shade at Cal. We all know you hate him.
Idgaf about positive or negative, that’s stuff is for weenies that wear blue colored goggles.
I deal in truth and facts and what I stated is both.
Of course. Cal is coaching basketball, not Playstation or church league. No defense, just stay on the damn bus. Jacking three's is a simpleton's game.
Yup and we'll keep losing when it counts.
You’re too old and stubborn to change from the way ball was played in the 70's, that much is obvious.
Just look at the teams winning titles, they focus on scoring points in bunches. Heck, Baylor's center was a 6'5" bowling ball.
Cal would rather clog the paint with a bunch of bigs and labor to score, then take the air out of the ball when he gets a 6 point lead with 3 minutes to go.
Yeah, that Cal. He probably sucks at PlayStation. It’s funny how you omit tactical details such as foul situation, injury status, fatigue levels, etc which play into end of game strategy. Oh, wait those aren’t factors in PlayStation which is more real than real basketball, to you.
It’s called percentage basketball not fan happy basketball. Funny too how you fail so badly making your point you have to dredge up age bigotry. Proves you are a complete loser resorting to that.
Cal would rather clog the paint with a bunch of bigs and labor to score,
Kansas won the National Championship and averaged taking the same number of three point shots per game as Kentucky. Both teams averaged taking 17.1 three point shots per game. Kentucky also had the National Player of the year playing center which means you should try to get the ball to him often. Kansas averaged scoring 78.6 points per game and Kentucky averaged scoring 79.5 points per game. Those stats show you know nothing about what you are talking about. Doesn't look like Cal clogged the paint with a bunch of bigs and labored to score.
Typical Cal fanboy, all you guys do is throw out excuses.
Cal has had the most talent, yet has lost the all time wins lead, all time NCAAT lead, orchestrated the worst season in UK history, worst NCAAT loss in program history and hasn't seen a FF in 7 years.
Talent has never been the problem. Wake up.
The bolded statement is true.
While KU took the same amount of threes, they hit theirs, because they didn't have guys like Wheeler, Keion Brooks, Isiah Briscoe, BJB and Askew taking those shots.
Kansas recruits shooters, Cal recruits NBA draft pospects and hopes they'll make shots when it matters.
Whatever, at least Cal gets to go home and pet his F-ing dog.
I gotta say, my initial assessment was a very quick “no” but looking at this comparison, it’s a lot closer than I thought it was. 2015 is still deeper, but I can at least see a discussion here.
It is not true. Kentucky shot the same number of threes per game as Kansas and that is not clogging the paint. Sorry if facts hurt your agenda.
Again, with the deception. Talented CHILDREN. Worst season? COVID year with CHILDREN. Worst tournament loss to an Elite 8 team? 7 years, 1 of which there was no tournament and another where the year was dramatically affected by pandemic. We won’t bring up the years where the refs bent us over.
Wait for it……Jeffie will scream EXCUSES! This guy tosses out data faster than a sorority tosses panties during pledge week.
I think the 2015 team dominated because of size. But I like this year's team at all positions and love our at least 4 deep bench.
Show your work. Where are you getting that UK shot the same amount of threes?
I really hope you're not comparing our game against SP to any game Kansas played in the NCAAT. If you are, don't even bother replying, you'll just make yourself look much worse.
Again, Cal had Keion Brooks and Wheeler taking threes, while Kansas had Braun, Agbaji and Martin taking 3's. You simply don't know what you're talking about.
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Oh goodie, more excuses + more complaints about the real facts.
I get it, you don't like reading the facts, but they're real and it pisses you off that you can’t legitimately debate those facts.
Does anyone believe in the theory that the 2015 had TOO much depth? It appeared like roles still weren’t defined by the end of the season, Ulis/Booker should have played more.
Here are stats for 2021/22 kansas and UK
kansas
UK
3P shooting;
ku--40games---286/792---36.1%----19.8/g
UK--34 games--207/596---34.7%---17.5/g
ku took 13.1% more 3P/g than UK and made them at a higher %
rr
kansas
UK
3P shooting;
ku--40games---286/792---36.1%----19.8/g
UK--34 games--207/596---34.7%---17.5/g
ku took 13.1% more 3P/g than UK and made them at a higher %
rr
LOL!!!’ I knew it. He even thinks because he is pissed off that the world is.
Jeffie, your problem with facts is you have to look at ALL the facts. You can’t just pick up a few. You are like the blind guy that the elephant crapped on. He concluded all elephants are a big pile of crap. If you throw away facts, like you always do, you are left with nothing but turds. You cherry pick years out of Cal’s career, you leave out relevant information regarding down years, you ignore things like player inexperience and poor prep school coaching. You look at the very worst, don’t attempt to understand what you are seeing and you conclude the worst. Well doh!!!!
Then post the facts that debate my facts.
So far, you have posted nothing but a chapped attitude.
Throw em out here so we can look what you are going off of. I can't wait.
There are lots of ways to compare them. Player by player (best to worst), but it's hard to compare a C to a PG. Player by player by position for all 10 spots. Or position by position (so 2 vs 2). The later may be the easiest.
PG: Andrew & Ulis (FR) vs Wheeler & Wallace.
Andrew trimmed down in year 2 and was a pretty good defender. And Ulis was as well (he was SEC DPOY a year later). But Wheeler was pretty good defensively too, is much as his height would allow. And Wallace looks to definately be Defense guy. On offense, AH+TU made only 38.9%, but 40.4% from 3 (both shot better from 3 than from 2), and 79.2% from the line (5.5 FTA/gm). We don't know how Wallace will do, but last year Wheeler was at 44.1%, 30.8%, and 78% (2 FGA/gm). So I think SW+CW will be better at 2's, worse at 3's, and same ballpark on FTs but attempt less of them. Ulis was so good at controlling the ball (3.6 A/TO) that combined AH+TU had a 2.7 A/TO. Last year with all his assists, SW had a 2.4. I prefer to look at ST/TO ratio (anything > 1.0 is very good), which AH+TU was at 0.76, and SW was at 0.37. And while I think Wallace could go over 1.0 he would have to get it up to 1.2 for SW+CW to be similar to AH+TU. So I might give slight edge to 2015.
SG: Aaron & Booker (not NBA version) vs Reeves & Fredrick.
AH+DB made 42.8%, 35.7% from 3, and 80.6% at line. Although not at UK, and 2 years ago, Fredrick did play vs big time competition, so I think his %'s may translate. Reeves though didn't face the quality of defense that he will at UK, BUT he was also the star on that team so defenses probably focused on him more than will at UK. So maybe they will be similar for him too. So AR+CJF made 47%, 41.3% from 3, and 78.9% at the line. So the pair appear to be better shooters. Although their 0.53 ST/TO is worse than AH=DB at 0.83. But potentially they could be more efficient shooting the ball. So maybe slight edge to 2023.
SF: Poythress & Lyles vs Livingston and Theiro
OK I know this one isn't fair, first of all we only got Poy for 1/4 of the season. Secondly, what position do we say Theiro is? And lastly, after Poy's injury, Booker played a lot of 3 for us (the twins & Ulis & Booker played 97+mpg).
Poythress was looking really good, maybe just ok offensively, but defensively and just his physicality couldn't be matched; and had he not gotten hurt I am 99% certain we would have won #9. But I think Livingston compares quite well to Lyles, but no way can Theiro compare to Poythress. Win for 2015.
PF: WCS + Lee vs Toppin + Collins
Interesting one, 4 athletic "freaks". All with question marks offensively, but all are/were lob targets. So I'm not sure shooting %'s are as meaningful here. But I think it is safe to say from what we say in the Bahamas Toppin is the best shooter of the 4, and Collins probably 2nd best, while Lee was not good at that. So offensively it is 2023. But WCS was known for his defense, and at a lessor level so was Lee, with those 2 blocking a shot every 15 minutes. Comparatively last year JT+DC blocked a shot every 20 minutes. Neither pair was great at rebounding, but WCS+ML was better with 1 every 4 min compared to 1 every 4.9 min. If you gave WCS the majority of minutes (which is what happened in 2015), then it's pretty even, but if Lee gets >25% of the minutes then I go with 2023.
C: Towns + Johnson vs Oscar + Ware/UKO
We will use Ware since we at least have a baseline for him.
Oscar vs KAT is pretty even offensively, but rebounding Oscar wins (vs ANYONE). Defensively I also give KAT the edge. And Johnson is easily better than Ware or likely UKO, so much so that had he returned in 2016 with Ulis and Murray that is a E8 team if not more. So the only way 2023 takes this one is if Oscar gets 80+% of the minutes, otherwise I have to go with 2015.
PG: Andrew & Ulis (FR) vs Wheeler & Wallace.
Andrew trimmed down in year 2 and was a pretty good defender. And Ulis was as well (he was SEC DPOY a year later). But Wheeler was pretty good defensively too, is much as his height would allow. And Wallace looks to definately be Defense guy. On offense, AH+TU made only 38.9%, but 40.4% from 3 (both shot better from 3 than from 2), and 79.2% from the line (5.5 FTA/gm). We don't know how Wallace will do, but last year Wheeler was at 44.1%, 30.8%, and 78% (2 FGA/gm). So I think SW+CW will be better at 2's, worse at 3's, and same ballpark on FTs but attempt less of them. Ulis was so good at controlling the ball (3.6 A/TO) that combined AH+TU had a 2.7 A/TO. Last year with all his assists, SW had a 2.4. I prefer to look at ST/TO ratio (anything > 1.0 is very good), which AH+TU was at 0.76, and SW was at 0.37. And while I think Wallace could go over 1.0 he would have to get it up to 1.2 for SW+CW to be similar to AH+TU. So I might give slight edge to 2015.
SG: Aaron & Booker (not NBA version) vs Reeves & Fredrick.
AH+DB made 42.8%, 35.7% from 3, and 80.6% at line. Although not at UK, and 2 years ago, Fredrick did play vs big time competition, so I think his %'s may translate. Reeves though didn't face the quality of defense that he will at UK, BUT he was also the star on that team so defenses probably focused on him more than will at UK. So maybe they will be similar for him too. So AR+CJF made 47%, 41.3% from 3, and 78.9% at the line. So the pair appear to be better shooters. Although their 0.53 ST/TO is worse than AH=DB at 0.83. But potentially they could be more efficient shooting the ball. So maybe slight edge to 2023.
SF: Poythress & Lyles vs Livingston and Theiro
OK I know this one isn't fair, first of all we only got Poy for 1/4 of the season. Secondly, what position do we say Theiro is? And lastly, after Poy's injury, Booker played a lot of 3 for us (the twins & Ulis & Booker played 97+mpg).
Poythress was looking really good, maybe just ok offensively, but defensively and just his physicality couldn't be matched; and had he not gotten hurt I am 99% certain we would have won #9. But I think Livingston compares quite well to Lyles, but no way can Theiro compare to Poythress. Win for 2015.
PF: WCS + Lee vs Toppin + Collins
Interesting one, 4 athletic "freaks". All with question marks offensively, but all are/were lob targets. So I'm not sure shooting %'s are as meaningful here. But I think it is safe to say from what we say in the Bahamas Toppin is the best shooter of the 4, and Collins probably 2nd best, while Lee was not good at that. So offensively it is 2023. But WCS was known for his defense, and at a lessor level so was Lee, with those 2 blocking a shot every 15 minutes. Comparatively last year JT+DC blocked a shot every 20 minutes. Neither pair was great at rebounding, but WCS+ML was better with 1 every 4 min compared to 1 every 4.9 min. If you gave WCS the majority of minutes (which is what happened in 2015), then it's pretty even, but if Lee gets >25% of the minutes then I go with 2023.
C: Towns + Johnson vs Oscar + Ware/UKO
We will use Ware since we at least have a baseline for him.
Oscar vs KAT is pretty even offensively, but rebounding Oscar wins (vs ANYONE). Defensively I also give KAT the edge. And Johnson is easily better than Ware or likely UKO, so much so that had he returned in 2016 with Ulis and Murray that is a E8 team if not more. So the only way 2023 takes this one is if Oscar gets 80+% of the minutes, otherwise I have to go with 2015.
ESPN stats show Kansas took 684 threes in 40 games and Kentucky took 581 threes in 34 games. That is an average of 17.1 threes taken per game. Not sure which is accurate. But even if your stats are correct then Kansas only took approximately 2 more threes per game than Kentucky. That shows Jeff is wrong when he states Cal clogged the paint with a bunch of bigs.
ESPN stats show Kansas took 684 threes in 40 games and Kentucky took 581 threes in 34 games. That is an average of 17.1 threes taken per game. Not sure if CBS or ESPN is accurate. But even if CBS stats are correct then Kansas took approximately 2 more threes per game than Kentucky. That shows you are wrong when you state Cal clogged the paint with a bunch of bigs.
The youth thing is an excuse. Cal is responsible for the roster. His short sighted recruiting is what frequently leaves us in rebuilding mode. It’s happened to him multiple times now.
If youth is the problem stop using one and done as your main recruiting pitch. Sell the program instead of the nba.
Also i’m getting Kansas at 19.8 3pa per game good for 265th and Kentucky at 17.5 which was 325th.
The difference:
I went back to 2010 and no team has won a title ranked below 300th in 3 point attempts per game.
This is what people mean when they say Cal’s offense is archaic. He’s wayyy too conservative. And he can say “i tell them they’re coming out if they pass up an open shot” till he’s blue in the face but 5 of his last 8 teams have been sub 300 in that category. That’s a Cal problem.
And i don’t see many people saying we have to turn into a team of chuckers like Bama. Though you’re more likely to win it that way than barely shooting them at all. The best way is balance. We have lacked that balance.
The difference:
I went back to 2010 and no team has won a title ranked below 300th in 3 point attempts per game.
This is what people mean when they say Cal’s offense is archaic. He’s wayyy too conservative. And he can say “i tell them they’re coming out if they pass up an open shot” till he’s blue in the face but 5 of his last 8 teams have been sub 300 in that category. That’s a Cal problem.
And i don’t see many people saying we have to turn into a team of chuckers like Bama. Though you’re more likely to win it that way than barely shooting them at all. The best way is balance. We have lacked that balance.
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