OT: Can someone explain to me what's going on now with Stokes and the police?

[Forrest4Moore]

Lock it if need be. But I live in Birmingham and had a coworker ask me if I knew what was going on now. Sure, I could Google it. And I did. But perhaps my simple mind can't grasp how an innocent life lost is the fault of a police officer and not of the criminal running away who actually hit the guy.

 

[patdog]

Clinton police chased a shoplifter into Jackson city limits. The guy hit another car & killed the driver. He had stolen about $50.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

Lock it if need be. But I live in Birmingham and had a coworker ask me if I knew what was going on now. Sure, I could Google it. And I did. But perhaps my simple mind can't grasp how an innocent life lost is the fault of a police officer and not of the criminal running away who actually hit the guy.

Stokes wants Jackson to be a sanctuary city for criminals. He has asked the citizens of Jackson to throw rocks and bricks and bottles at any police car or officer from a surrounding city that comes into Jackson pursuing a suspect.

 

[Original48]

Stokes wants Jackson to be a sanctuary city for criminals. He has asked the citizens of Jackson to throw rocks and bricks and bottles at any police car or officer from a surrounding city that comes into Jackson pursuing a suspect.

I wish this was hyperbole...but unfortunately it is not.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/02/us/mississippi-throw-rocks-police-comment/

 

[Lou3000]

When do you cease a high speed pursuit of a misdemeanor offense? It's a good question, and a topic worthy of debate. Unfortunately Stokes injected racism and then urged people to throw rocks at police.

 

[patdog]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

 

[121Josey]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

Why didn't they just ask him how much he stole? That would have saved a lot of trouble. And if they wouldn't have chased him, then he wouldn't have broken any driving laws. He sounds like a fine, upstanding citizen who would wait patiently at home to be picked up by the cops. C'mon man.

 

[Shmuley]

^^^ assume for the sake of this poster that the act of fleeing law enforcement is not itself a felony.

 

[GhostOfJackie]

I was just about to say, the second that start to flee makes it a felony. So the argument that they are chasing a misdemeanor offense is ********.

 

[ronpolk]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

So, suburbs are supposed to just let criminals come in and as long as they can run back to Jackson well they are free to go? What precedent is that setting? That is exactly what stokes is encouraging. And if you don't believe that criminals are coming from Jackson and then headed back as soon as possible I suggest you watch the news more. I'm not trying to bash Jackson cause any decent size city has crime but to act like the suburbs should not pursue criminals is stupid.

 

[woozman]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

Devil's advocate: how much later? After he decides to rob someone else and kills them too?

 

[BoomBoom.sixpack]

Lock it if need be. But I live in Birmingham and had a coworker ask me if I knew what was going on now. Sure, I could Google it. And I did. But perhaps my simple mind can't grasp how an innocent life lost is the fault of a police officer and not of the criminal running away who actually hit the guy.

The cops made a questionable decision to put innocent lives at stake over $50, an innocent life was lost, people questioned the questionable decision (including a professional race-baiting idiot in office), and others get offended because cops must never be questioned.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

That's some high-grade delusion right there.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

^^THIS^^

I would add that poor decision-making created a very bad outcome making an otherwise race-baiting ******* look like a soothsayer, thereby giving said ******* credibility to continue being a race-baiting ******* with impunity.

 

[FormerlyHighLifeRebel]

View attachment 3546

 

[Forrest4Moore]

Exactly. An innocent person died over $50. Just get the security video, car tag, etc and go pick the criminal up later.

Where are you getting that it was only $50? I can't find that anywhere. Clinton's mayor said a computer and computer equipment. Also, every article I read states they changed the tags on the car. Odds are the tags were stolen. Highly unlikely your hypothetical scenario would work.

 

[dawgphd]

Would building a wall on the county line solve the problem?

If so who pays for it? Mexico?

Delete if need be. i couldnt resist.

 

[KurtRambis4]

If I'm not

mistaken, the cops had decided to pull back and cease the chase, and then he hit the person.

 

[Tater Jones]

The guy they were chasing had an eye that could see around a corner.
Probably shouldn't be driving. Not that he gave two *****.

 

[KurtRambis4]

A broken

clock is right, twice a day...Stokes has zero credibility, ever.

 

[ronpolk]

Would building a wall on the county line solve the problem?

If so who pays for it? Mexico?

Delete if need be. i couldnt resist.

I laughed. A nice brick wall at county line may be good!

 

[Shmuley]

I'd go for a draw bridge. Draw that 17er up at night.

 

[patdog]

The cops made a questionable decision to put innocent lives at stake over $50, an innocent life was lost, people questioned the questionable decision (including a professional race-baiting idiot in office), and others get offended because cops must never be questioned.

Apparently, most on this board take putting innocent people's lives at risk pretty casually. I'm sure they'd feel differently if the person killed was one of their family members or loved ones. A high speed police chase is pretty freaking dangerous. Sometimes it's necessary. But not when the crime is stealing a $50 item from Wal-Mart. Kurt is right that Stokes has zero credibility. But he's not wrong on this one.

 

[patdog]

You're gonna have to build it a little north of County Line Rd.

 

[OleMissLogo]

Officers from three towns chased a man who had shoplifted at a Walmart and assaulted people in the parking lot.

That was the reason for the pursuit in January that caused Stoke's original comments.

Here is the recent chase:

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2016/03/22/jackson-fatal-police-pursuit/82109458/

A few excerpts:

after allegedly shoplifting computer equipment at the Wal-Mart on U.S. 80 and leading police on a high-speed chase from Clinton to Capitol Street and Tennessee Avenue. Police say Johnson was driving the vehicle, which had switched tags, when the accident occurred at 11:51 p.m.

So, no, just pulling the tags and going back later wouldn't have solved anything.

Clinton police notified Jackson police of the ongoing chase, and JPD responded and assisted, Gill said.

Jackson Police Chief Lee Vance said to his knowledge, JPD was not notified until after the crash occurred and his officers were not involved in the pursuit.
"That is absolutely untrue from my knowledge. I’ve already talked with dispatch supervisors and the sergeant that was on duty, the only notification we got was after the crash," Vance said. "We by no means participated in this pursuit. I’ve been vocal about my opposition of chasing suspects in the the city of Jackson on misdemeanor or property crimes."

Dash-cam video sent to The Clarion-Ledger from the city of Clinton shows a responding officer asking dispatchers if JPD has been notified, and the dispatcher replies that they have. Less than a minute later, he passes a JPD car on the left with its lights on. After the dispatcher calls to officers that the tag comes back switched, a JPD car passes the Clinton police car.

So the police chief is either being misinformed or flat-out lying. I bet they would have been a great help in any investigation.

The video shows the suspect driving up on to a sidewalk and then back out on to the road at one point, and the police officer can be heard saying, "What the hell is he doing?"

Yea obviously the issue is with police chases and not moron criminals.

Gill said he did not know the speed of the chase but "our officers were backing off. They were a few hundred feet away from the vehicle that caused the wreck. They were talking, they were discussing, breaking off the pursuit at that time."
The video does appear to show that officers were substantially behind the suspect when the wreck occurs.

So once the driver began driving very recklessly, the cops called off the chase and were backing off.

On Tuesday, Stokes said the city of Clinton should pay the Blue family $100 million in damages, and he once more accused police of racism. Stokes maintains that if Jackson had a white mayor and a white police chief, that surrounding jurisdictions would not pursue fleeing suspects into the city. Stokes also accuses the officers involved in the chase of "murdering" Blue. Gill said charges could be brought against Johnson in Blue's death if JPD or Hinds County decided to press them.

Not the Jackson residents that robbed the store and actually killed the guy. Nope, Stokes says they're innocent and it's the police's fault...

Johnson (the driver) has six outstanding tickets — four from the Ridgeland Police Department and two from the Mississippi Highway Patrol. He did not have a driver’s license.

In 2013 Johnson was convicted of four counts of auto burglary and sentenced to seven years with three years suspended and three years' probation, according to the Clinton Police Department.

So a guy that should actually be in prison...

 

[KurtRambis4]

I read that

So a guy that should actually be in prison...

the other day and just shook my head. This guy has committed multiple serious crimes, of which he served one year, and people are blaming the cops. Par for the course.

 

[121Josey]

Apparently, most on this board take putting innocent people's lives at risk pretty casually. I'm sure they'd feel differently if the person killed was one of their family members or loved ones. A high speed police chase is pretty freaking dangerous. Sometimes it's necessary. But not when the crime is stealing a $50 item from Wal-Mart. Kurt is right that Stokes has zero credibility. But he's not wrong on this one.

This is coming from a guy who thinks that it's no big deal to get behind the wheel intoxicated - or at least if your first name is Dakota. C'mon man.

Does anyone else think Dak's DUI arrest was ********? Stories out that they the breathalyzer "failed" and they don't have a reading on what he blew. Doesn't necessarily mean he can't be convicted, but it is definitely a harder case to prove.

It's one thing to blow a .08 and get arrested. Another to blow a .17. Our DUI laws are seriously 17ed up. We need to go back to the day when there were 2 different tickets. DUI wasn't considered all that serious. But Driving While Intoxicated was.

 

[patdog]

This is coming from a guy who thinks that it's no big deal to get behind the wheel intoxicated - or at least if your first name is Dakota. C'mon man.

Our pitcher was driving intoxicated??? If you mean Dak, you don't know he was driving intoxicated, and neither does anyone else. He may have been for all I know. But the burden of proof, if he chooses to plead not guilty, is going to be higher than it would have been if the breath test had worked or if the police had asked for a blood test.

 

[thatsbaseball]

The driver of the get-away car should have already been in jail. Has a long rap sheet and was out due to a prior 7 year sentence being cut to 3 years I believe. I would venture to say 90% plus of the violent crimes in Jackson are committed by people that the courts have either released prematurely or improperly sentenced in the first place.

 

[KeyserSoze1999]

There are stories out there about small time petty criminals / thieves who later commit murder. And the public reaction to this is always, "they shouldn't have been out on the streets" "he was a criminal before this, why was he allowed to go free?".

We can all sit back and play "Captain Hindsight" and be like a $50 thief is not worth pursuing and causing the death of an innocent person---and this is true. On the other hand letting someone go for petty theft (Charlie Samuel) and he then goes on to murder a 17 year old girl (Lily Burk) then we would all be like, a petty criminal / $50 criminal is still technically a "criminal" and should've been apprehend by police. Parking tickets are petty, but parking tickets is how the Son of Sam killer was caught. And routine traffic stops are petty, but a routine traffic stop is how Ted Bundy was initially caught.

I guess my point is that you have to pursue criminals to the best of your ability while keeping the safety of innocent civilians in mind---a lot of pressure on an officer. And we get to sit back in the safety that law enforcement officers provide us and second guess their decisions.

View attachment 3547

 

[Go Budaw]

Apparently, most on this board take putting innocent people's lives at risk pretty casually. I'm sure they'd feel differently if the person killed was one of their family members or loved ones. A high speed police chase is pretty freaking dangerous. Sometimes it's necessary. But not when the crime is stealing a $50 item from Wal-Mart. Kurt is right that Stokes has zero credibility. But he's not wrong on this one.

I think you are missing the point on who is actually putting lives at risk. Police are trained to safely pursue suspects in high speed chases. It was the guy who stole and decided to run who put lives at risk and eventually killed a guy, and he should be charged under the fullest extent of the law for vehicular manslaughter and felony police evasion for doing so. You are also making a couple of pretty big assumptions. One, that the guy would just stop driving wrecklessly once a cop stopped following him (like they wouldn't have his tags and wouldn't radio for support from another unit to continue the pursuit). Two, that this guy wasn't also mentally unstable, have other warrants, or high or drunk while driving. Typically, one of those would almost have to be the case. Nobody is going on a multiple county Dukes of Hazzard drag race from the cops if shoplifting $50 is the only thing they have done.

 

[LawDawg97]

You just typed that Stokes was not wrong. Credibility lost. Forever

But he's not wrong on this one.

I understand you wanting to make an argument, but please don't hitch it to Stokes. Stokes says the Clinton PD should pay the deceased $100 million (a number he just grabbed out of the air). Stokes said the chase was racially motivated. Stokes said these chases did not happen in Jackson when there was a white mayor and a white city council. Stokes says a PD should NEVER chase a criminal - misdemeanor or felony.

I feel for the family of the deceased, but there is one person at fault here and hopefully he is locked away forever. I can only imagine what a no-chase policy would do to increase the danger to me and my family. Every thug would hit the accelerator and make for the county line as soon as they did anything. The danger would still be there even if the cops stopped chasing. I'd at least rather have the warning of police lights to watch for.

 

[OleMissLogo]

I guess my point is that you have to pursue criminals to the best of your ability while keeping the safety of innocent civilians in mind---a lot of pressure on an officer. And we get to sit back in the safety that law enforcement officers provide us and second guess their decisions.

Yep. It's a balance that isn't clear even when discussing in hypothetical, much-less when it becomes a real situation that cops find themselves in.

In the current case, the chase happened for ~5 miles (Wal-Mart Clinton to Tennessee Ave). We are talking about a chase that probably lasted 3-5 minutes (I can't get the video on the article to play for more than 2 minutes which doesn't even get the cop to Wal-Mart yet).

 

[patdog]

And you are missing that it's possible for one party (the criminal) to be at fault, while another party (the police) can also contribute to the accident. It's a fact that it IS his fault, and he should be charged with vehicular homicide. It's also a fact that if the police hadn't been chasing him, he wouldn't have killed anyone.

 

[OleMissLogo]

The C-L has a list of different pursuits that have crossed into Jackson.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/...ackson-teen-dies-after-police-chase/17994345/

The mother of a teen girl who was killed after a police pursuit is upset because she says she was informed of her daughter's death by neighbors before the Jackson Police Department.

JPD said Keonna and her friends were in a vehicle stolen out of Vicksburg. The driver was arrested Sunday.

http://www.clarionledger.com/story/news/local/2016/01/30/rankin-police-chase/79573878/

A police chase that began in Rankin County ended in a wreck in south Jackson.
Richland Police Department spokesperson Allison Clark said Travis Williamson, 30, of Richland and Christopher Jenkins, 39, of Crystal Springs were traveling south on U.S. 49 when an officer ran the license plate of their vehicle and discovered it was stolen. When police attempted to pull the vehicle over, the suspects turned around and headed north on the U.S. 49. The chase continued on U.S. 80 through Pearl and into Jackson, WLBT reported.

 

[OleMissLogo]

And you are missing that it's possible for one party (the criminal) to be at fault, while another party (the police) can also contribute to the accident. It's a fact that it IS his fault, and he should be charged with vehicular homicide. It's also a fact that if the police hadn't been chasing him, he wouldn't have killed anyone.

Well, no that isn't a fact at all...

 

[patdog]

The driver of the get-away car should have already been in jail.

Agree that this is the real root cause of the problem. The courts in Jackson would be a joke if it weren't so serious. A friend of mine is JPD and for all the hell they get, there are a lot of good officers on that police force who are getting stabbed in the back by the courts every day. They arrest these guys multiple times and turn around and they're right back on the streets committing crimes.

 

[KurtRambis4]

I just

It's also a fact that if the police hadn't been chasing him, he wouldn't have killed anyone.

don't agree that this is a fact, at all.

 

[Go Budaw]

And you are missing that it's possible for one party (the criminal) to be at fault, while another party (the police) can also contribute to the accident. It's a fact that it IS his fault, and he should be charged with vehicular homicide. It's also a fact that if the police hadn't been chasing him, he wouldn't have killed anyone.

I'm really not sure what protocol you want the police to follow. They were simply responding to a call about a shoplifting suspect, got a lead on the vehicle ID, and did what they are paid to do and attempted to apprehend the suspect. There is also no way they could have known at the time what the relative value of the stolen goods was anyways. Besides, how is that even relevant? Would it have been more "worth it" that a guy died if he had stolen $1000 laptop instead of $50 of miscellaneous equipment? If not, what if it was a $10,000 Rolex? A $100,000 sports car? If he had kidnapped somebody? The answer to all of those questions is hell no, it would not be worth an innocent life. There is no logical break point at which you can say above this threshold, the juice is worth the squeeze and below it, I'll just get him tomorrow. We unfortunately live in a world of criminals and sometimes they make rash decisions that cause collateral damage. It sucks, but its the world we live in. You can't place any blame at the feet of those who are trying to catch the people making those decisions.

 

[jack daniels dog]

I'm really not sure what protocol you want the police to follow. They were simply responding to a call about a shoplifting suspect, got a lead on the vehicle ID, and did what they are paid to do and attempt to apprehend the suspect. There is also no way they could have known at the time what the relative value of the stolen goods was anyways. Besides, how is that even relevant? Would it have been more "worth it" that a guy died if he had stolen $1000 laptop instead of $50 of miscellaneous equipment? If not, what if it was a $10,000 Rolex? A $100,000 sports car? If he had kidnapped somebody? The answer to all of those questions is hell no, it would not be worth an innocent life. There is no logical break point at which you can say above this threshold, the juice is worth the squeeze and below it, I'll just get him tomorrow. We unfortunately live in a world of criminals and sometimes they make rash decisions that cause collateral damage. It sucks, but its the world we live in. You can't place any blane at the feet of those who are trying to catch the people making those decisions.

Drops microphone and walks away....bravo sir