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What's Cals strategy, bringing back Oscar?

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CatsIndy2010

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Jan 27, 2010
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Not to sound stupid but, this Oscar guy is going to probably break more records next year if he is healthy the entire time.

And we got to have great 3 point shooters to pair with the rebounding from Oscar. He's going to create 2nd chance points with those rebounds.

Who's going to attempt 3s?

Other than that, im still hurt out how last season turned out. But it does happen to good teams.
 
B

bbanks81

All-Conference
May 5, 2003
614
1,184
58
like many of you I still think we need to add one more wing player that shoots well from deep. Counting on CJ is tough, and honestly not fair to him if he forced to once again play hurt. I’m not even sure where we stand with anyone left in the portal, but why not take a chance on a kid that could at least fill one of our 3-4 open Schollys?
 
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UKWildcats1987

Heisman
Sep 9, 2021
20,151
35,561
113
We have Frederick and reeves and Wallace. That's really not any different than last season as long as cj is healthy. I agree one more is needed as insurance.
 
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Catfan2226

All-American
Apr 13, 2012
5,241
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Somewhere in the portal is a player that simply makes 3s..Hes not an all american.hes not flashy,hell hes not even a high jumping athletic player BUT he can make 3s...scout the portal and look for numbers is what the staff should be doing and who's to say they arent.Hes there
Also I expect some other players names to be forthcoming in the portal as schools had up to 48 hours after the deadline to post.
 
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bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
Cal has to keep shooters on the floor. If Wheeler is at PG and Tshiebwe is inside, then we need the other three guys to be shooters. Wallace is one. Reeves or Fredrick makes two. Those guys play the 2 and 3 spots in that scenario. So we need someone at the 4 spot that can stretch the defense. I think Livingston is the best option, but hopefully Toppin improves his shooting enough to help there as well.

What is going to be irritating is watching Cal stick Livingston and Toppin in at the 3 and 4 and watching the offense struggle with only one really good shooter on the floor at a time.
 
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K_TIME

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,408
25,734
113
bucsrule8872 said:
Cal has to keep shooters on the floor. If Wheeler is at PG and Tshiebwe is inside, then we need the other three guys to be shooters. Wallace is one. Reeves or Fredrick makes two. Those guys play the 2 and 3 spots in that scenario. So we need someone at the 4 spot that can stretch the defense. I think Livingston is the best option, but hopefully Toppin improves his shooting enough to help there as well.

What is going to be irritating is watching Cal stick Livingston and Toppin in at the 3 and 4 and watching the offense struggle with only one really good shooter on the floor at a time.
Click to expand...
But that is all but destined to happen.....which is why I can't get excited a ton for next year. Wheeler, Wallace, Livingston, Toppin and Oscar...with Collins, CJ and Reaves off the bench. There is your 7-8 man team for next year.

- 4 non shooters in the starting lineup
- No true backup PG on the roster
 
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bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
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K_TIME said:
But that is all but destined to happen.....which is why I can't get excited a ton for next year. Wheeler, Wallace, Livingston, Toppin and Oscar...with Collins, CJ and Reaves off the bench. There is your 7-8 man team for next year.

- 4 non shooters in the starting lineup
- No true backup PG on the roster
Click to expand...
Wallace is the backup PG. Other than that, you are spot on.
 
C

CincyUKFan

All-American
Dec 1, 2009
4,585
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studentcat said:
like many of you I still think we need to add one more wing player that shoots well from deep. Counting on CJ is tough, and honestly not fair to him if he forced to once again play hurt. I’m not even sure where we stand with anyone left in the portal, but why not take a chance on a kid that could at least fill one of our 3-4 open Schollys?
Click to expand...
We can add multiple shooters to the roster, but what good will it do if there’s only one or two on the court at a time?

This, to me, will be the issue. This is the problem Wheeler creates. When one of your guards cannot shoot, and you’ve got Oscar, along with Collins, Toppin, and Ware - who aren’t stretch 4’s, you necessarily only have two possible shooters on the court at a time. And I’m sure there will betimes Cal only has one.

If Wallace and Livingston are sub 30% shooters, we’re really doomed.
 
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K_TIME

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,408
25,734
113
bucsrule8872 said:
Wallace is the backup PG. Other than that, you are spot on.
Click to expand...
I agree that Wallace is the backup PG...but is that such a really good idea?

- Last year it worked at times and it caught up with us when they both went down....but also had Mintz who had PG experience.
- But why not have a legit backup with 4 open scholarships at the PG spot? It's just the same old Cal roster management laziness.
- You'd imagine one of the strengths of a UK vs. other teams is we'd be able to win with depth as well as starters. I mean in football Bama, UGA, etc..have great starters but usually wear down teams with their superior depth. But Cal is content to just role 7 dudes out there year after year...he's just silly...and to not have depth on the PG spot is absurd.
 
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K_TIME

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,408
25,734
113
CincyUKFan said:
We can add multiple shooters to the roster, but what good will it do if there’s only one or two on the court at a time?

This, to me, will be the issue. This is the problem Wheeler creates. When one of your guards cannot shoot, and you’ve got Oscar, along with Collins, Toppin, and Ware - who aren’t stretch 4’s, you necessarily only have two possible shooters on the court at a time. And I’m sure there will betimes Cal only has one.

If Wallace and Livingston are sub 30% shooters, we’re really doomed.
Click to expand...
You've hit the nail on the head with next year's team....
- If Cal does his usual 3-4 guys play 35 mpg and the rest play a few minutes and guys 8-13 (hell he doesn't even fill 2-3 spots per year) don't really play at all.....what difference does it make if we have shooters that don't get consistent minutes?
- The precise issue is he's going to run Wheeler at PG...and when you do that...you can't play a subpar shooting SG or SF...or you need a stretch PF (which we hardly ever have). So Wheeler at PG, Wallace at SG and Livingston at SF, Toppin/Collins at PF and Oscar at C....do we really believe Frederick, Reeves and any other shooter is going to get consistent minutes to make a difference.

Cal's history tell me he's going to give Wallace and Livingston all the clock they want and make Frederick and Reeves accept spot minute rolls. By not getting a PG to compete with Wheeler...he's basically inked in Wheeler at 35mpg per game (which I think is a bad idea). My gut tells me one of Reeves/Frederick will find their role and the other will struggle to get consistent play that a shooter needs. And teams will play zone, go under every ball screen, clog up driving lanes, etc... and in good games we'll struggle to score enough again. Sort over this nonsense.
 
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C

CincyUKFan

All-American
Dec 1, 2009
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K_TIME said:
You've hit the nail on the head with next year's team....
- If Cal does his usual 3-4 guys play 35 mpg and the rest play a few minutes and guys 8-13 (hell he doesn't even fill 2-3 spots per year) don't really play at all.....what difference does it make if we have shooters that don't get consistent minutes?
- The precise issue is he's going to run Wheeler at PG...and when you do that...you can't play a subpar shooting SG or SF...or you need a stretch PF (which we hardly ever have). So Wheeler at PG, Wallace at SG and Livingston at SF, Toppin/Collins at PF and Oscar at C....do we really believe Frederick, Reeves and any other shooter is going to get consistent minutes to make a difference.

Cal's history tell me he's going to give Wallace and Livingston all the clock they want and make Frederick and Reeves accept spot minute rolls. By not getting a PG to compete with Wheeler...he's basically inked in Wheeler at 35mpg per game (which I think is a bad idea). My gut tells me one of Reeves/Frederick will find their role and the other will struggle to get consistent play that a shooter needs. And teams will play zone, go under every ball screen, clog up driving lanes, etc... and in good games we'll struggle to score enough again. Sort over this nonsense.
Click to expand...
Yep. Wheeler playing big minutes at point with a maximum (but highly unlikely event) of two decent shooters on the floor with him at any given time is the “precise” issue.
 
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B

Blue Bigfoot

Heisman
Dec 13, 2014
7,042
20,765
0
Because Oscar is the anchor that stops us from being a borderline NIT team.
Older players = less coaching for Cal. He gets tired of yelling goooooooo! It's hard.
 
P

Padsfs07

All-Conference
Jan 19, 2013
3,904
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K_TIME said:
I agree that Wallace is the backup PG...but is that such a really good idea?

- Last year it worked at times and it caught up with us when they both went down....but also had Mintz who had PG experience.
- But why not have a legit backup with 4 open scholarships at the PG spot? It's just the same old Cal roster management laziness.
Click to expand...

It seems like that is what he is doing by recruiting Adou Thiero.
 
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K

know1

Heisman
Dec 8, 2002
12,855
14,925
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I thought Oscar was going to come back to work on his game to improve his draft stock. Does Cal plan to have him out on the perimeter a bunch shooting 3s? If so, would that be at the expense of team success?

Everybody already knows he can rebound and score inside in college. Another year of him doing that isn't going to improve his stock any.
 
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K_TIME

K_TIME

Heisman
Jan 2, 2003
18,408
25,734
113
know1 said:
I thought Oscar was going to come back to work on his game to improve his draft stock. Does Cal plan to have him out on the perimeter a bunch shooting 3s? If so, would that be at the expense of team success?

Everybody already knows he can rebound and score inside in college. Another year of him doing that isn't going to improve his stock any.
Click to expand...
That is my concern I have is Oscar won't be as good as last year's version of Oscar if we're trying to turn him into Patrick Patterson.

1. We have zero inside presence w/o him...and Patterson had Cuz and Orton to allow him to move to face up PF
2. Oscar's strength is rebounding and he is actually a pretty good post scorer at end of last year. Him taking more 15 footer or even out to 20 feet....He doesn't look to turn into a 38%3pt shooter and then we'll have Toppin/Collins to rebound (not exactly Dennis Rodman types).
 
B

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
Play 4 out and run the occasional Pick and Pop play with Tshiebwe. If he proves he can make that 3 point jumper, teams will have something else to game plan for and it will help the offense. Tshiebwe needs to be working on that play all offseason. Run it 2-3 times a game and hope he can make one of them a game. That will open things up for his Pick and Roll action and pull Bigs out of the paint which will help the guards get easier shots at the rim.
 
K

know1

Heisman
Dec 8, 2002
12,855
14,925
0
K_TIME said:
That is my concern I have is Oscar won't be as good as last year's version of Oscar if we're trying to turn him into Patrick Patterson.

1. We have zero inside presence w/o him...and Patterson had Cuz and Orton to allow him to move to face up PF
2. Oscar's strength is rebounding and he is actually a pretty good post scorer at end of last year. Him taking more 15 footer or even out to 20 feet....He doesn't look to turn into a 38%3pt shooter and then we'll have Toppin/Collins to rebound (not exactly Dennis Rodman types).
Click to expand...
Yep. This is why - outside of him cashing in big for one year which is debatable to me whether that was a good choice in the long run - it feels like a lose/lose for him and there's downside for UK.

If we want to use him exactly how we did last year, then he's going to look really good, but won't be any higher in the draft than he was this year.

If we pull him out of that in an attempt to showcase a different skillset, then we are probably sacrificing team success to slightly improve his draft stock. And there's no guarantee he's even going to look good playing out on the floor or wing.

I like Oscar A LOT, but I have never been able to figure out what he's getting out of coming back other than 1 year of a pile of money. Which may actually not be a great long term decision for him.
 
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