Is Ty Ty Cal's Best Guard?

WildMoon

Heisman
Apr 7, 2009
78,693
11,120
0
in terms of guards alone, he is well on his way for the top 5...

but don't see him passing Ulis or Murray for the top 2. If he is able to bring it up another notch, he will actually pass Wall. (which is crazy!!!)

His productivity is around with SGA, but being able to make 3 allows him to be more easily play off-guard which i think deserves a lot of credit.
 

HDAWG123455

All-American
Sep 23, 2021
3,772
9,014
113
Cal’s best guard ever at Kentucky is John Wall and it’s not particularly close. Now Cal’s best guard ever anywhere is Derrick Rose at Memphis
 

carolinacat

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2007
4,954
4,825
113
Cal’s best guard ever at Kentucky is John Wall and it’s not particularly close. Now Cal’s best guard ever anywhere is Derrick Rose at Memphis
I think you may be falling into the trap of comparing a guy with 17 games under his belt, to an established professional. That comparison can only be made several years into the future.
 
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STL_Cat

Heisman
Dec 4, 2011
64,878
57,614
98
I think you may be falling into the trap of comparing a guy with 17 games under his belt, to an established professional. That comparison can only be made several years into the future.
John Wall was a 1st Team All-American and the SEC Player of the Year. Not saying Tyty can’t do both, or won’t, but Wall’s college credentials stand on their own.

you need to wait longer than 17 games IMO
 

carolinacat

All-Conference
Nov 7, 2007
4,954
4,825
113
The best UK guards are the ones that carry their team into final fours and produce on that stage. I hate how statistics have clouded people’s ability to see this these days.
Dude, read what I said. I understand the season's got a long way to go. He may tail off down the stretch. However, as of this moment, he's got better numbers than ANY 1st year guard Cal has had. Those facts aren't in dispute.

I'll wager the following: 1. He's an absolute top ten lottery pick. 2. He'll have a terrific NBA career. That puts him in the conversation.
 

CELTICAT

Heisman
May 21, 2002
19,200
18,648
113
The last two/three weeks he's looked like maybe the most complete guard Cal has had. He's not the electric playmaker that Wall was, but he's miles ahead as far as shooting goes. He's a much more efficient shooter than Knight and a better play maker. He's not as good defensively as Teague, but again much better offensive player. Against Duke and ND, you could tell he got nervous. If he pushes through that in March and we go to the final four, then he's definitely in the running as the best overall.
 

WildMoon

Heisman
Apr 7, 2009
78,693
11,120
0
The last two/three weeks he's looked like maybe the most complete guard Cal has had. He's not the electric playmaker that Wall was, but he's miles ahead as far as shooting goes. He's a much more efficient shooter than Knight and a better play maker. He's not as good defensively as Teague, but again much better offensive player. Against Duke and ND, you could tell he got nervous. If he pushes through that in March and we go to the final four, then he's definitely in the running as the best overall.

yeah, people are dinging Tyty for being super efficient, so it doesn't look like he is doing much.

If he increases output a little more, I just see Ulis and Murray (mostly due to being more reliant on them than any other guards we had), passing Wall (crazy, i know).
 
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mash_24

Heisman
Sep 26, 2011
9,224
26,988
108
No. But he’s way better than I thought. And he probably had the best game from one of Cals freshman guards here I have seen on Saturday.
 

CELTICAT

Heisman
May 21, 2002
19,200
18,648
113
yeah, people are dinging Tyty for being super efficient, so it doesn't look like he is doing much.

If he increases output a little more, I just see Ulis and Murray (mostly due to being more reliant on them than any other guards we had), passing Wall (crazy, i know).

Every big time five star guard here under Cal has had a glaring weakness. I don't know if Washington has one. That's why I say he might be the most complete. He's not blow the doors off athletic like Wall or Fox, but those guys couldn't shoot like TyTy either. The cool thing is we'll get to find out where he's stands all time over the next 10 weeks.
 

BluCroo

Senior
Jun 20, 2006
337
639
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I like his maturity and his willingness to play team ball.

I was wondering if he would be unselfish enough to look for assists when he took over the point,...and he dished out 17 of them.

Then scored 28 points against a ranked team as soon as he moved back to the 2 guard position.

I don't know what more anybody could want in a freshman guard.
 

Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
10,292
27,496
0
Dude, read what I said. I understand the season's got a long way to go. He may tail off down the stretch. However, as of this moment, he's got better numbers than ANY 1st year guard Cal has had. Those facts aren't in dispute.

I'll wager the following: 1. He's an absolute top ten lottery pick. 2. He'll have a terrific NBA career. That puts him in the conversation.

Let’s do it. My point wasn’t even necessarily directed toward you in a sense.

To me, I’d personally take TyTy over Wall on a college floor. As far as insight as to my opinion on the matter, the next few months will tell whether Or not I’d rather have TyTy over Knight.
 

Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
10,292
27,496
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incorrect.

so you would argue
1. BK + Lamb
2. Teague + Lamb
3. Twins

are our best guards during Cal era.

Congrats, 100% wrong.

In my opinion the final four on everything just goes out the door. As far as getting to the final four and being an actual major contributor, that is my measuring stick. Yes I’ll take BK over Wall on a college floor.
 

WildMoon

Heisman
Apr 7, 2009
78,693
11,120
0
In my opinion the final four on everything just goes out the door. As far as getting to the final four and being an actual major contributor, that is my measuring stick. Yes I’ll take BK over Wall on a college floor.

it is an opinion, but opinion can be based on many flaws.

Why did you randomly draw a line at making the final four? Why not make the title game? or why not win the title?

You say BK is better than John wall. Then Freshman Andrew was also better than BK? Or that Marquis Teague is your best guard in Cal era. But since sophomore A. Harrison only made it to the final four, he wasn't as good as freshman A. Harrison.

Only reason B.knight went to the final four while J. Wall didn't is simply because B.Knight had Lamb, Liggins, and Miller surrounding him to go around with really good T. Jones and J. Harrelson. Put John Wall on that 2011 team and we probably are near undefeated and definitely winning the title.
 

Gromcat_rivals

Heisman
Jun 28, 2021
10,292
27,496
0
it is an opinion, but opinion can be based on many flaws.

Why did you randomly draw a line at making the final four? Why not make the title game? or why not win the title?

You say BK is better than John wall. Then Freshman Andrew was also better than BK? Or that Marquis Teague is your best guard in Cal era. But since sophomore A. Harrison only made it to the final four, he wasn't as good as freshman A. Harrison.

Only reason B.knight went to the final four while J. Wall didn't is simply because B.Knight had Lamb, Liggins, and Miller surrounding him to go around with really good T. Jones and J. Harrelson. Put John Wall on that 2011 team and we probably are near undefeated and definitely winning the title.

I don’t agree with some of this. I didn’t say he was better necessarily I said for a college team I’d rather go to war with Knight. I think you’re reading too much into what I’m trying to say, or I’m not explaining it right. My point anyway is that how much athleticism, talent, and crazy stat sheets a player has is not necessarily what my prime opinion comes down to.
 

26MichaelUK

All-American
Feb 14, 2013
36,538
5,093
93
Who knows but I love his composure and confidence. He plays hard. Seems to make the right play way more often than not.
 

HDAWG123455

All-American
Sep 23, 2021
3,772
9,014
113
Every big time five star guard here under Cal has had a glaring weakness. I don't know if Washington has one. That's why I say he might be the most complete. He's not blow the doors off athletic like Wall or Fox, but those guys couldn't shoot like TyTy either. The cool thing is we'll get to find out where he's stands all time over the next 10 weeks.
If you want to nitpick then you could probably say his lack of explosiveness and his ability to finish above the rim but he’s so calm and doesn’t allow anyone to speed his game up, similar to how luka in the nba doesn’t let anyone speed him up, that it’s not an issue.
 
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Son_Of_Saul

Heisman
Dec 7, 2007
45,127
97,968
113
Nope.

Tyreke Evans
Derrick Rose
John Wall
Brandon Knight
Tyler Ulis
Jamal Murray
Malik Monk
De'Aron Fox
SGA
Tyrese Maxey

He might end up better than half of those guys, but he's not eclipsing Rose, Wall, or Ulis.
 
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*Fox2Monk*

Heisman
Jun 10, 2009
44,707
80,486
113
I don’t k is if he will ever be top 5 based on who those guys were and what they accomplished but he may be the top 5 most effective guards we have had, he’s damn good so I’ll give him that and take him every year.
 
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blackcat714

All-American
Apr 30, 2017
4,011
5,426
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Ty is not in the top 5 yet in my opinion but he has started to shoot a lot better if he leads us to a championship then he may become Cals best.
 

podgejeff_

All-American
Dec 4, 2005
8,067
5,268
113
I just went through the per40 stats of Cal's guards.

Wall and Fox are both obviously better, and probably Monk as well. SGA has an argument. As does Ulis.

He's better than Knight or Quickley. Which I'd argue are his comparables as far as style. We still have more season to go.

The shocking one is Goodwin. Nobody ever talks about him but his per40 stats are really close to Washington's. I maintain on any other team he is talked just as much as all the other star Cal guards. Keldon Johnson, as well.
 

Comebakatz3

Heisman
Aug 8, 2008
43,303
33,275
113
I'll say this... he is probably one of the more complete guards that we've had under Calipari.

Wall was amazing and he was the face of the recruiting class that revitalized our program. However, Wall was largely a driving PG. His ability to shoot the basketball left a whole lot to be desired. Fox was similar in the way he played. Could get to the rim and score, but struggled to shoot the long ball.

Contrast that with someone like say Herro, who could shoot lights out, but was less likely to drive and score around the rim. He was much more of a jump shooter and a true 2 guard; while TyTy can score at all three levels and move to the 1 and provide you with a great pick and roll game in the half court. For instance, Herro had 91 assists in his 37 games at UK. TyTy has 81 through 17.

I'd say that the closest to TyTy in terms of complete guards are Knight and SGA. SGA was more of an inside scorer. He played in 37 games as well and shot just 57 three pointers, even though he made them at a 40 percent clip. By contrast, TyTy has played 17 games and has already shot 56 threes. Knight was pretty complete, but he relied a lot more on the 3 than TyTy does so far. TyTy shoots about 28 percent of his shots from three while Knight shot about 45 percent of his shots from three.

Ulis is also pretty close. He scored quite well at all three levels, despite his size, and had an absolute massive amount of assists.

Pretty fun to look back at these and compare though.
 

Jireh

Senior
Jan 2, 2003
1,276
880
113
First of all, for those of you who attacked or ridiculed the OP for having an opinion - you're part of the problem in society today.

My opinions are not based on stats but just how feel. I'd have to say college Wall is fairly overrated. Ulis is Cal's best guard and I don't think it's close. If Cal plays Ulis in the final four against Wisconsin we win the title and go undefeated.

That being said, I do think TyTy, at this stage of the season, is Cal's best when comparing his other guards at the same point in their freshman seasons. We'll have to see how he performs in big games later in March but, in college, I'd definitely take TyTy over anyone not named Ulis.