Something we all should be able to agree on

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
We keep asking each other to come up with a list of who can come in and replace Cal, but every list one side makes, gets immediately discredited by the other side. It's usually something like "he'd never come here", or "he had a string of bad seasons 12+ years ago". Truth is, there is no perfect fit and honestly, the pickin's are slim.

After some thought on this, I came to the realization that even though I have Scott Drew on my list, I don't actually want Scott Drew, no, I want his system and I want Cal to coach it. Scott Drew doesn’t cater to the NBA, he gets kids that are program guys, redshirts some of them and develops them, then they step on the court as juniors and seniors and they play like a well oiled machine. He’s not yelling all game long, because he did his coaching over the course of several years.

I don't actually want Nate Oats, I want his gritty attitude and his ideas. His system needs fine tuning, but he runs a high octane style that utilizes long and athletic shooters that defend well. Give him a few years. But Nate isn't worthy of the UK job, but I wouldn't mind if Cal played a tuned 'Nate Oats' style.

I don't want Bruce Pearl, but damn, I want Cal to run the stuff Pearl runs. Hell yeah, he presses, he gets athletic freaks that drive hard to the rim, they open the floor up with good outside shooting and he makes great adjustments. His system is probably the best out of all of them. Also, I love his passion.

I think we would all love to get Brad Stevens, that’s very unlikely to ever happen, but I would love his coaching mind here. I think we all know how brilliant he is as a coach. He can take non-athletic kids and beat anybody. He runs an offense that is difficult to guard, with back cuts and a lot of misdirection plays that get easy baskets. This isn’t something Cal would ever do, but as a fan, you should want what Brad runs.

All these coaches are good player developers, they all use the 3 point shot effectively and they care about winning more than anything else.

Our issues with Cal are pretty simple. The roster turnover is a big issue, the offense, the stall ball, talking down to fans, the yelling all game long, taking half the season to figure out his team, the culture he created, which promotes leaving as fast as you can and the lousy pre-conference scheduling where we only play bigtime opponents when forced to or on neutral courts.

Most of us don't want Cal to quit or get fired, we just want him to stop the one-and-done, stop the pro days, change the offense and develop players over time instead of trying to microwave these kids' games.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
Good breakdown Jeff, I like Pearl coming here. He has the attitude and personality to lead UK and keep us in the headlines. Plus he won’t need BBQ’s at UK!
Yeah, I understand why UK fans wouldn't want him here, apparently home barbeque's are awful things, but nobody can say his stle of play isn't effective. The guy can coach and he definitely gets our attention whenever we play Auburn (or UT when he was there).
 

4Pinocchios

Junior
Jan 2, 2022
194
314
0
We keep asking each other to come up with a list of who can come in and replace Cal, but every list one side makes, gets immediately discredited by the other side. It's usually something like "he'd never come here", or "he had a string of bad seasons 12+ years ago". Truth is, there is no perfect fit and honestly, the pickin's are slim.

After some thought on this, I came to the realization that even though I have Scott Drew on my list, I don't actually want Scott Drew, no, I want his system and I want Cal to coach it. Scott Drew doesn’t cater to the NBA, he gets kids that are program guys, redshirts some of them and develops them, then they step on the court as juniors and seniors and they play like a well oiled machine. He’s not yelling all game long, because he did his coaching over the course of several years.

I don't actually want Nate Oats, I want his gritty attitude and his ideas. His system needs fine tuning, but he runs a high octane style that utilizes long and athletic shooters that defend well. Give him a few years. But Nate isn't worthy of the UK job, but I wouldn't mind if Cal played a tuned 'Nate Oats' style.

I don't want Bruce Pearl, but damn, I want Cal to run the stuff Pearl runs. Hell yeah, he presses, he gets athletic freaks that drive hard to the rim, they open the floor up with good outside shooting and he makes great adjustments. His system is probably the best out of all of them. Also, I love his passion.

I think we would all love to get Brad Stevens, that’s very unlikely to ever happen, but I would love his coaching mind here. I think we all know how brilliant he is as a coach. He can take non-athletic kids and beat anybody. He runs an offense that is difficult to guard, with back cuts and a lot of misdirection plays that get easy baskets. This isn’t something Cal would ever do, but as a fan, you should want what Brad runs.

All these coaches are good player developers, they all use the 3 point shot effectively and they care about winning more than anything else.

Our issues with Cal are pretty simple. The roster turnover is a big issue, the offense, the stall ball, talking down to fans, the yelling all game long, taking half the season to figure out his team, the culture he created, which promotes leaving as fast as you can and the lousy pre-conference scheduling where we only play bigtime opponents when forced to or on neutral courts.

Most of us don't want Cal to quit or get fired, we just want him to stop the one-and-done, stop the pro days, change the offense and develop players over time instead of trying to microwave these kids' games.

Posts like this are big reason a moderator said he was thinking of banning malcontents that never shut up, or he was going to just quit.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
Posts like this are big reason a moderator said he was thinking of banning malcontents that never shut up, or he was going to just quit.
Apparently you didn't read the post.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could have a problem with it. If you can't look at that and understand what's being said, then log off.

This doesn't need to be a ***** fest, it's something both sides should be able to agree on. if this is too hard for you, like I said, log off.
 

4Pinocchios

Junior
Jan 2, 2022
194
314
0
Apparently you didn't read the post.

I honestly don't understand how anyone could have a problem with it. If you can't look at that and understand what's being said, then log off.

This doesn't need to be a ***** fest, it's something both sides should be able to agree on. if this is too hard for you, like I said, log off.
Day after day, month after month there one constant here: Jeff the malcontent. Take your own advice and log off.
 

wildcat111

All-Conference
Dec 9, 2020
1,572
1,778
113
We keep asking each other to come up with a list of who can come in and replace Cal, but every list one side makes, gets immediately discredited by the other side. It's usually something like "he'd never come here", or "he had a string of bad seasons 12+ years ago". Truth is, there is no perfect fit and honestly, the pickin's are slim.

After some thought on this, I came to the realization that even though I have Scott Drew on my list, I don't actually want Scott Drew, no, I want his system and I want Cal to coach it. Scott Drew doesn’t cater to the NBA, he gets kids that are program guys, redshirts some of them and develops them, then they step on the court as juniors and seniors and they play like a well oiled machine. He’s not yelling all game long, because he did his coaching over the course of several years.

I don't actually want Nate Oats, I want his gritty attitude and his ideas. His system needs fine tuning, but he runs a high octane style that utilizes long and athletic shooters that defend well. Give him a few years. But Nate isn't worthy of the UK job, but I wouldn't mind if Cal played a tuned 'Nate Oats' style.

I don't want Bruce Pearl, but damn, I want Cal to run the stuff Pearl runs. Hell yeah, he presses, he gets athletic freaks that drive hard to the rim, they open the floor up with good outside shooting and he makes great adjustments. His system is probably the best out of all of them. Also, I love his passion.

I think we would all love to get Brad Stevens, that’s very unlikely to ever happen, but I would love his coaching mind here. I think we all know how brilliant he is as a coach. He can take non-athletic kids and beat anybody. He runs an offense that is difficult to guard, with back cuts and a lot of misdirection plays that get easy baskets. This isn’t something Cal would ever do, but as a fan, you should want what Brad runs.

All these coaches are good player developers, they all use the 3 point shot effectively and they care about winning more than anything else.

Our issues with Cal are pretty simple. The roster turnover is a big issue, the offense, the stall ball, talking down to fans, the yelling all game long, taking half the season to figure out his team, the culture he created, which promotes leaving as fast as you can and the lousy pre-conference scheduling where we only play bigtime opponents when forced to or on neutral courts.

Most of us don't want Cal to quit or get fired, we just want him to stop the one-and-done, stop the pro days, change the offense and develop players over time instead of trying to microwave these kids' games.
I think you know Cal is not going to change...it has been the same way for 13 years. At this point , any of the coaches you mentioned above would be a good replacement for Cal. My pick would be Rick Pitino, even with the baggage, we would be winning championships. But, it don't matter ...Barney gave Cal a lifetime contract so he is here for the duration unless some one comes up with $$$$$ for the buyout.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
I think you know Cal is not going to change...it has been the same way for 13 years. At this point , any of the coaches you mentioned above would be a good replacement for Cal. My pick would be Rick Pitino, even with the baggage, we would be winning championships. But, it don't matter ...Barney gave Cal a lifetime contract so he is here for the duration unless some one comes up with $$$$$ for the buyout.
Well, Calipari has changed many things this year, but one of those changes (veteran roster) might be short lived.
Yeah, Pitino is enticing, but like Scott Drew, Bruce Pearl, Kelvin Sampson and Nate Oats, we're in love with their coaching abilities, style of play and roster stability, but they all have baggage or negative stats associated with them.
 
Last edited:

Lempface

Heisman
Feb 16, 2009
12,159
20,638
98
Very insightful contribution.
Just tired of the microwave reactions everyone around here has. Let the season play out and judge at the end. Sure you can be disappointed at specific losses w/e but prior to the COVID shutdown we had a team primed for a tourney run. Yes last season was a debacle and this season hasn't proven anything yet, but we've got a lot of scheduled games left.

So no, this post is not something "we all" can agree with.
 
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UKWildcats1987

Heisman
Sep 9, 2021
19,963
35,148
113
Cal has much of chance as changing as the goobers on here do.

Also the NBA controls the one and done...I am quite sure Cal would love to have his great players for 3 years like football does or baseball (if they do not go pro straight out of HS). One and done is stupid...it should be like baseball and football rules.
 

Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
28,072
30,262
113
We keep asking each other to come up with a list of who can come in and replace Cal, but every list one side makes, gets immediately discredited by the other side. It's usually something like "he'd never come here", or "he had a string of bad seasons 12+ years ago". Truth is, there is no perfect fit and honestly, the pickin's are slim.

After some thought on this, I came to the realization that even though I have Scott Drew on my list, I don't actually want Scott Drew, no, I want his system and I want Cal to coach it. Scott Drew doesn’t cater to the NBA, he gets kids that are program guys, redshirts some of them and develops them, then they step on the court as juniors and seniors and they play like a well oiled machine. He’s not yelling all game long, because he did his coaching over the course of several years.

I don't actually want Nate Oats, I want his gritty attitude and his ideas. His system needs fine tuning, but he runs a high octane style that utilizes long and athletic shooters that defend well. Give him a few years. But Nate isn't worthy of the UK job, but I wouldn't mind if Cal played a tuned 'Nate Oats' style.

I don't want Bruce Pearl, but damn, I want Cal to run the stuff Pearl runs. Hell yeah, he presses, he gets athletic freaks that drive hard to the rim, they open the floor up with good outside shooting and he makes great adjustments. His system is probably the best out of all of them. Also, I love his passion.

I think we would all love to get Brad Stevens, that’s very unlikely to ever happen, but I would love his coaching mind here. I think we all know how brilliant he is as a coach. He can take non-athletic kids and beat anybody. He runs an offense that is difficult to guard, with back cuts and a lot of misdirection plays that get easy baskets. This isn’t something Cal would ever do, but as a fan, you should want what Brad runs.

All these coaches are good player developers, they all use the 3 point shot effectively and they care about winning more than anything else.

Our issues with Cal are pretty simple. The roster turnover is a big issue, the offense, the stall ball, talking down to fans, the yelling all game long, taking half the season to figure out his team, the culture he created, which promotes leaving as fast as you can and the lousy pre-conference scheduling where we only play bigtime opponents when forced to or on neutral courts.

Most of us don't want Cal to quit or get fired, we just want him to stop the one-and-done, stop the pro days, change the offense and develop players over time instead of trying to microwave these kids' games.
good post and agree, I think he is changing... it has to be obvious to everyone this year (so far)... if onedoesn't see it, it's only because that person chose not to. (edit: see above poster)
but I also think there are many that dislike (hate) him so much, they would rather UK be worse; but have someone different (sound familiar?)
 

dc513

All-Conference
Dec 9, 2018
2,035
2,358
0
good post and agree, I think he is changing... it has to be obvious to everyone this year (so far)... if onedoesn't see it, it's only because that person chose not to. (edit: see above poster)
but I also think there are many that dislike (hate) him so much, they would rather UK be worse; but have someone different (sound familiar?)
Would be nice watching a coach such as Pearl or Oates manage a UK game.
 
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UK-Chulo

All-American
Mar 22, 2007
3,472
5,005
98
good post and agree, I think he is changing... it has to be obvious to everyone this year (so far)... if onedoesn't see it, it's only because that person chose not to. (edit: see above poster)
but I also think there are many that dislike (hate) him so much, they would rather UK be worse; but have someone different (sound familiar?)
Yes and no from my view. Cal has made some changes with staff and getting more experienced players. But his coaching flaws I just don't think he will overcome. Can't defend out of bounds plays, getting tight at the end of big games, not running offense for shooters who can't create for themselves, etc.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
Just tired of the microwave reactions everyone around here has. Let the season play out and judge at the end. Sure you can be disappointed at specific losses w/e but prior to the COVID shutdown we had a team primed for a tourney run. Yes last season was a debacle and this season hasn't proven anything yet, but we've got a lot of scheduled games left.

So no, this post is not something "we all" can agree with.
You either didn't actually read the OP, or you didn't understand it.
 

Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
28,072
30,262
113
Yes and no from my view. Cal has made some changes with staff and getting more experienced players. But his coaching flaws I just don't think he will overcome. Can't defend out of bounds plays, getting tight at the end of big games, not running offense for shooters who can't create for themselves, etc.
IMO he is running plays for Grady... inbounds, and end of games I can't argue
 
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Blueaz

Heisman
Jul 7, 2009
28,072
30,262
113
Would be nice watching a coach such as Pearl or Oates manage a UK game.
I really don't get the fascination with Oats... 3 or layup is not modern offense, nor the predominately successful offense in NBA (unless you a very certain type of team built for it)...
 

Lempface

Heisman
Feb 16, 2009
12,159
20,638
98
You either didn't actually read the OP, or you didn't understand it.
I certainly did, you used a lot of terms like we and our as if wanting Cal gone was a foregone conclusion for everyone, in a post titled, Something we all should be able to agree on. Perhaps you're not as adept at reading as you think you are.
 
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Ron Mehico

Heisman
Jan 4, 2008
15,473
33,054
0
I personally have been pretty clear on what I wanted changed, and almost all of it was except the offense. Except for something changed after the ND game and lo and behold - the offense actually changed! I actually really like our team this year and think we have a chance to make some noise. I’m not on this board as much anymore because I don’t really like it anymore, the constant nagging has worn me down, but I think we can all agree we’ve seen some purposeful changes this year. There is still an opportunity to see if some of the players come back next year. If wheeler and Collins and toppin etc come back next year with our stud recruits? Is t that what we’ve all been asking for? Would be great. I really like Cal and am optimistic he’s wanting to leave on a high note. JMO
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
I certainly did, you used a lot of terms like we and our as if wanting Cal gone was a foregone conclusion for everyone, in a post titled, Something we all should be able to agree on. Perhaps you're not as adept at reading as you think you are.
I really thought everyone would see the point of the post and actually agree for once, I knew there would be someone that would screw it up, I thought it would be Bass, or KL, but nope, it's you.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
I personally have been pretty clear on what I wanted changed, and almost all of it was except the offense. Except for something changed after the ND game and lo and behold - the offense actually changed! I actually really like our team this year and think we have a chance to make some noise. I’m not on this board as much anymore because I don’t really like it anymore, the constant nagging has worn me down, but I think we can all agree we’ve seen some purposeful changes this year. There is still an opportunity to see if some of the players come back next year. If wheeler and Collins and toppin etc come back next year with our stud recruits? Is t that what we’ve all been asking for? Would be great. I really like Cal and am optimistic he’s wanting to leave on a high note. JMO
Good post.
Yes, my #1 issue is the one-and-done/leave-as-soon-as-possible culture.

I think we all see just how hard this is and each new team has to go through the learning process and figure things out, apparently even Cal's most experienced team has to go through it as well.

But the problem is, you hit the reset button as soon as the season is over the second non-NBA sophomores bolt. Now the next team has to go through all that again. Everything that was learned the prior year, has to be learned again. Can't keep doing that.

If Wheeler, Toppin, Collins, Hopkins, Sharpe, Brooks and Allen, all leave (or most of them), this will never be fixed. They have NIL going for them here and if they still leave, it's hopeless.

Ultimately, a guy like Oscar would come back at most other schools. He’s a great college player, but he's not an NBA guy.
 

Tim Higgins

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2010
1,386
1,322
0
Yeah, I understand why UK fans wouldn't want him here, apparently home barbeque's are awful things, but nobody can say his stle of play isn't effective. The guy can coach and he definitely gets our attention whenever we play Auburn (or UT when he was there).
You were mocking me and others for saying it’s okay to have Pearl here. Not that I’d even want him to replace Calipari. But if he leaves, that’s a choice. Most all the choices are not great, it is what it is. You wake up with a bottle of clarity today? Good to see
 

weatherbird

All-American
Aug 1, 2006
5,892
9,511
113
Yes and no from my view. Cal has made some changes with staff and getting more experienced players. But his coaching flaws I just don't think he will overcome. Can't defend out of bounds plays, getting tight at the end of big games, not running offense for shooters who can't create for themselves, etc.

I don't know how you can go to getting tight in big games, and then look and see that he has won more tournament games than anyone since he has been at UK. Don't give me the talent excuse either, there is one other particular coach that is considered the best of all time that has had the same talent or better over the same period that hasn't won as many games.

The issue with us as fans is that we pay really close attention to every game UK plays. So we see all the flaws as well as the positives. Other coaches have some of the same flaws, but we aren't paying attention to those guys as much. Here is the issue I have with most of the arguments about Cal, neither side can be objective. All the ones that don't like Cal will give the credit to the players when we win, and blame the coach when we lose. And all the people that love Cal will blame it on anything but the coach. It is actually a combination of both in both situations.

You might not like what Cal does at the end of games, but it seems to be at least as effective, if not more effective than other options. Not to mention, if you listen to the James Young interview after the season in 2014 on KSR, you likely get a clue as to why Cal doesn't draw up plays very often. Apparently, against Wichita State, Cal drew up a play before the James Young 3 that put us ahead, and Young says that when the ball came to him, he had forgotten what he was supposed to do, so he just shot it.

I don't agree with all of the original post, but one thing I can agree on is Scott Drew's offense. It is exactly how a college team should play. It may be a little overkill to even call it an offense, as structurally, it isn't much different than what Cal is doing. It isn't an offense as much as it is just general actions, but what he likes to do is run PnR on one side of the floor, targeting 2 less than stellar defenders. He does a better job than Cal in my opinion, of isolating the advantages he has and using them.
 

Cats192

Heisman
Apr 22, 2011
14,902
17,816
93
Good post.
Yes, my #1 issue is the one-and-done/leave-as-soon-as-possible culture.

I think we all see just how hard this is and each new team has to go through the learning process and figure things out, apparently even Cal's most experienced team has to go through it as well.

But the problem is, you hit the reset button as soon as the season is over the second non-NBA sophomores bolt. Now the next team has to go through all that again. Everything that was learned the prior year, has to be learned again. Can't keep doing that.

If Wheeler, Toppin, Collins, Hopkins, Sharpe, Brooks and Allen, all leave (or most of them), this will never be fixed. They have NIL going for them here and if they still leave, it's hopeless.

Ultimately, a guy like Oscar would come back at most other schools. He’s a great college player, but he's not an NBA guy.
This is my biggest gripe too.

I think he's taken steps/tried to mitigate it. I think he created the culture year 1 when he talked about how the day we had 5 1st round draft picks was the greatest day in UK history. He spent years and years talking up player's first. And I genuinely think this was a recruiting move. I think he practices what he preaches. But I also think he preaches it hoping better players are coming for "player's first." He talks up all the money our NBA guys have made--again--trying to pull guys into UK.

But the recruiting boon fell off after 2015. But throughout the entire Calipari tenure, we've lost guys that had no business going pro. Some of that you can't control. Someone told the story that Calipari told Archie Goodwin he needed another year, Archie said ok, then left and signed with an agent. Some kids come here with their minds made up. And that goes back to the "players first," "Look at all the NBA money UK guys are making." We recruit using our NBA success--and kids hear that they're coming here to go one and done.

Some guys however, you can influence. And I think this is Cal's biggest failure. I think it was this past off-season or maybe the year prior. He says he gathers information and goes over it with each kid. But he doesn't try to talk them into coming back. He doesn't spend more than 10 or 15 minutes on it.

And I think in a lot of cases, this is probably why Duke and UNC and Louisville get guys like Grayson Allen, Russ Smith, etc. back. Their coaches do the sell job. I remember talk of MKG wanting to come back in 2013. And I don't fault Cal for telling the kid he has to go pro. He went 2nd overall. If you're top 5, you just need to go ahead and go. But at the same time, how many kids have been torn and considered coming back for another year--for Cal to talk them INTO the NBA.

I've always thought everything Cal does comes down to recruiting. I don't think he cares MORE about the NBA stuff than our actual results. He thinks the NBA stuff will lead to better recruiting. But for a while now, it hasn't. And I think being 6-7 years from our last Final 4, people are tired of hearing about the NBA. People are tired of hearing about player's first. All that stuff is a cherry on top of my Sundae when I'm going to Final 4's. Without the ice cream, I don't really care about the cherry.
 

kyjeff1

Heisman
Sep 8, 2012
51,281
72,052
113
You were mocking me and others for saying it’s okay to have Pearl here. Not that I’d even want him to replace Calipari. But if he leaves, that’s a choice. Most all the choices are not great, it is what it is. You wake up with a bottle of clarity today? Good to see
I mean, are you guys actually reading this stuff?

First of all, I didn't mock you for suggesting Bruce Pearl. You are the biggest exaggerator I have ever seen on this board. You take a simple comment and turn it into some crazy *** reach and act like you've been wronged.

We all know Kentucky won’t hire Bruce Pearl. If you read my OP in this thread, it CLEARLY states that I don't want to hire BP, I want his style of play.

Read with your eyes please.