What is the punting situation? Both Bell and Cooke punted four times against LSU. Bell averaged 42 yards per punt with a long of 54 and Cooke averaged 32 yards per punt with a long of 36. Dan needs to pick one guy and have him punt, unless he wants to use the other one as specifically a pooch punter from when we are punting from inside the opponent's 50 yard line. I think kickers are such mental cases that when they get yanked in and out of the game and don't know when they'll be kicking, it screws with their head. Dan did this a couple years ago with Baker Swedenburg and Bell, and it seemed to really mess with Swedenburg's confidence. He punted terrible after Bell started punting too. A lot of people don't consider punting all that important, but LSU's first half touchdown drives both came on short fields after short punts. FG kicking seems to be settled for now with Graves (knock on wood), now we need to get the punting set.
Special teams question
- Thread starter FlotownDawg
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I'm convinced that's just how Dan is. He's going to rotate based on the situation, when people who can't tell the difference between a football and a baseball can tell you that kicking is at least partially a confidence thing. Watching the replay, the announcers were talking about Graves being our "short kicker" and Bell being our "long kicker". That's all in Dan's head - I got curious and looked at stats yesterday, and Bell is 44% for his career from 30+ yards (50% from 30-39). In 2013, he was 22% from 30+. The idea that he's our "long kicker" is in Dan's imagination.
And you're right about Swedenburg. My head nearly exploded a few years ago when we started rotating our All-American candidate punter with Bell. Bell does a hell of a job punting the ball and deserves props for it, but Swedenburg was killing it at the time. Why substitute?
And you're right about Swedenburg. My head nearly exploded a few years ago when we started rotating our All-American candidate punter with Bell. Bell does a hell of a job punting the ball and deserves props for it, but Swedenburg was killing it at the time. Why substitute?
Lol. This got me rolling in the floor. Good stuff. He sure does have one doesn't he.
Bell is our "long kicker" in the sense that he has the leg strength to kick the ball a long way. Really, though, if we're out of range for our regular kicker, we'd be better off either going for it or punting. Because if Bell puts the ball through the uprights, it was a complete accident.
Graves nailed a 43-yarder in the first half and it looked like it had plenty of room to spare. His two FG against Southern Miss, from 36 and 38 yards, also sailed through with plenty of room. It's not like last year when Sobiesk could barely squeak them through from 45. Graves seems to have a pretty strong leg. I don't think we even need a "long kicker." I would rather have had Graves try that 52-yarder at the end instead of Bell. Graves has a better chance of making that one than Bell does. Bell can't even make one from 35. He's a good punter, and should just stick to punting. No more FG kicks.
Mullen should stay out of special teams! Bell should be kicking the ball out of the endzone, and not that crap to the 10 yard line that always gets returned to the 40! Graves kicks the field goals, end of discussion Mullen!!
Do our coaches not realize that athleticism and depth shows up on special teams? We need to neutralize that against higher-talented SEC brethren!
Do our coaches not realize that athleticism and depth shows up on special teams? We need to neutralize that against higher-talented SEC brethren!
Hell, Graves probably could have hit the 48 yarder before the delay of game. The whole end of the LSU game was such a **** show.
Now wait a minute. Obviously Bell shouldn't be our regular kicker, but they were talking about our "long" kicker. In 2012 he was 4-7 over 40 yards with a long of 47 yards twice. It was 2013 that got in his head but before he was ok and he does have a strong leg. But when he got the shanks 2013 that pulled down his 2012 numbers (66% not good but serviceable if he kept improving from his freshman year, he didn't at all). And if you discount freshman jitters his first two games in which he was 0-3 then he went 14-18 the rest of the year with 2 47 yards against LSU and Northwestern in the bowl game. Now 2013 numbers don't lie but your stats are not painting the correct picture for his career.
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I think having to rotate with Sobiesk in 2013 is what got into Bell's head in the first place. If I remember correctly, we started 2013 rotating every single kick between Bell and Sobes (same thing last year during the first game or two with Sobes and Graves). Bell finished 2012 67% (14-21) as you mention. He finished 2013 43% (6-14). Sobiesk struggled early last season (missed FG and 2 missed PAT's through 2 games, if memory serves) until Dan made him "the" guy, and he was fine.
Point is, you go through practice and camp for a reason. Pick one, name the kid the starter, and leave it be until he proves he's not capable.
Point is, you go through practice and camp for a reason. Pick one, name the kid the starter, and leave it be until he proves he's not capable.
I'm not sure how much of an effect wind has in our stadium... but there was a pretty good wind straight out of the north all day. I'm sure it died down some by game time and probably even more by 11:30. But it could have ever so slightly helped Graves' 43-yard FG (the Bell FG would have been into the wind --- although I think it had completely died down by then).
I have no idea why any team would ever have two active punters. We just started that in 2013 with Swedenburg and Bell, and appear to be continuing it with Bell and Cooke this year. From what I saw Saturday night - Cooke shouldn't punt again this year unless he's considered our "high & short" guy to try and down it inside the 20.
I have no idea why any team would ever have two active punters. We just started that in 2013 with Swedenburg and Bell, and appear to be continuing it with Bell and Cooke this year. From what I saw Saturday night - Cooke shouldn't punt again this year unless he's considered our "high & short" guy to try and down it inside the 20.
One thing that I'll add to that as well is that this thing called adrenaline is no joke. Maybe Graves can barely kick it 45 yards in practice, but put him under the lights in a situation like that, and I can just about guarantee that he'd find a way to muster up an extra 5-7 yds
I wasn't necessarily disagreeing with most of what you were saying. Just trying to paint a more accurate picture of Bell than the way it was originally posted. After his first two games in 2012 he was 77%. Very respectable for a freshman. In 2013 Sobesik didn't even try a FG until the 4th game of the year and Bell was 3-6 with some bad misses already. Don't think it was the coach messing with his head as much seeing a problem. But it wasn't like Sobesik lit the world on fire either. 3-6 with a bad miss and a blocked FG.
Do you realize we were 14th the nation in kickoff return defense last year doing the same thing? Kicking it right at the goal line.
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There are so many decisions that can cost you a football game...
who knows, the somewhat inexplicable decision to allow Cooke to punt in the 1st Quarter instead of Bell may have been one of those decisions.
who knows, the somewhat inexplicable decision to allow Cooke to punt in the 1st Quarter instead of Bell may have been one of those decisions.
He'll rotate kickers, regardless of length in the program, and make their already fragile minds into scrambled eggs. Yet he won't 17ing think about giving a more talented freshman RB or safety valuable playing time. Solid logic, Dan.
Well Cooke did good last year and the week before (46.5 yard avg against USM with outstanding hang time). Can't really fault the coach for thinking of using Cooke.
We have two scholarship punters and no scholarship kickers
Don't understand that logic.
Devon Bell's decline...
Ok, Mullen I am putting this one on you. In Bell's Freshman year he set a MSU record for points by a kicker (85 points in 2012). He hit a 47 yarder against LSU and a long 48 yarder in the Gator Bowl and has been horrible ever since, so scared of the pressure that he wants to be our Punter now.
Ok, Mullen I am putting this one on you. In Bell's Freshman year he set a MSU record for points by a kicker (85 points in 2012). He hit a 47 yarder against LSU and a long 48 yarder in the Gator Bowl and has been horrible ever since, so scared of the pressure that he wants to be our Punter now.
Huh? When did I say that? Bell sucked in 2013. I said the stats don't lie about that. As a freshman in 2012 he missed his first 3 attempts. That was bad but could be wrote off as freshman jitters. After that he went 14-18 on the season with two over 45 yards. Not great but 77% for the rest of the year with a young strong legged kicker and most was content with what we had for 2013. Then he went in the tank and haven't said anything different. But I was asking how did he figure 2013 Bell's FG problems were on Mullen.
Mullen was still our Special Teams coach in 2013---Greg Knox became our Special Teams coach in the Spring of 2014.
If you are holding the reins and the horse goes the wrong way then you get the blame, not the horse.
No Dan didn't tell Bell to miss FGs on purpose and Dan didn't switch Bell's Gatorade to Everclear so that Bell would be so drunk that he would see 4 FG posts instead of 2 FG posts. But Dan was in charge when the decline happened.
If you are holding the reins and the horse goes the wrong way then you get the blame, not the horse.
No Dan didn't tell Bell to miss FGs on purpose and Dan didn't switch Bell's Gatorade to Everclear so that Bell would be so drunk that he would see 4 FG posts instead of 2 FG posts. But Dan was in charge when the decline happened.
Gotcha. That's a special kind of logic for a special teams coach though wouldn't you say? Kickers are different animals and special teams coaches are not really trying to work with the kickers fundamentals and such. Using that same logic, it's Knox's fault that Shump hasn't preformed like we thought he would, right? Or it's Manny's fault for every miss tackle even if the player was in the correct position per his design.
Dude it is the same kind of logic we all have to deal with.
If I am the manager of a store and suddenly our store profits go down I as manager would get the blame.
I get your point that it is the coaches job to put the players in the right spot, then it is the player's job to execute---and I agree with you.
But slippery slope when someone in charge of something is not really responsible for the results. "If you like your Healthcare plan, then you can keep it...we will build a website that works..." Looking at you mister President.
If I am the manager of a store and suddenly our store profits go down I as manager would get the blame.
I get your point that it is the coaches job to put the players in the right spot, then it is the player's job to execute---and I agree with you.
But slippery slope when someone in charge of something is not really responsible for the results. "If you like your Healthcare plan, then you can keep it...we will build a website that works..." Looking at you mister President.
There wasn't much rotating. Cooke shat the bed on his first 3 punts. Bell then kicked 4 in a row. Cooke came back and pooched one short one.
Well in the sense that he is the head coach, yes it is ultimately up to him to fix an issue. And honestly in most areas on the field it holds water if that position group is always struggling. Kickers are just a different breed and a special teams coaches just are not going to be able to help with fundamentals like other positions. And it's not like he hasn't had good kickers before Bell and after. DePasqual was really good for two years and then had some issues his last year. For a freshman Bell was 7th in the league in 2012, again not great but at any other position on the field most people would say that was pretty solid freshman year. Then 2013 happened and it stunk to high heaven. No doubt but Mullen saw it and in the 4th game of the year pulled Bell, who was 3-6 on the year and had missed two short FG (a 30 yarder I think in that game) and brought in Sobesik, who struggled as well. Then after the year he made the coaching change (of which everybody still alludes to as its really Mullen still coaching the special teams when we fail at something but this is the first time I recall some one now saying it is Knox making an improvement) and everybody was still dogging our kicker nearly all of last year until at the end we realize he actually was doing well. And now Graves has been solid. So is it the orginal talking point that Mullen screws up special teams or is it Knox as you allude to since he took over?
I just can't see how Mullen messed up Bell in 2013 if it was his job solely in the beginning but because he was struggling Mullen tried to correct it in the 4th game but that didn't work either. That was the original premise, that Mullen screwed up Bell NOT that Mullen just gets the blame because he was the position coach. Two different points.
I just can't see how Mullen messed up Bell in 2013 if it was his job solely in the beginning but because he was struggling Mullen tried to correct it in the 4th game but that didn't work either. That was the original premise, that Mullen screwed up Bell NOT that Mullen just gets the blame because he was the position coach. Two different points.
Agreed and maybe he should have thought about if Cooke was having trouble of punting, put Bell in after the second one. I know the LSU punter while booming a couple also had a couple of bad punts as well. Including a 25 yarder when they wanted to pin us deeper than the 18 from the 43 yard line and a 33 yarder. Cooke looked outstanding against USM so was it the pressure, wind, I don't know. He does kick a high ball so maybe that caused a bigger issue than it did with Bell but he needs to correct that for conditions.