So about participation trophies...

[dawgstudent]

I'm of the initial thought - don't hand them out regardless of age.

But someone made a good point this morning about 4-5 year olds. The trophy might keep them interested. I didn't start playing an organized sport until my first grade year (I was 6) and we kept score and had 1st, 2nd, and 3rd place.

 

[FQDawg]

Let me qualify my statement by saying...

that I don't have kids. However, I have coached youth soccer, basketball and baseball over the years. If a kid isn't interested in a sport at 4-5, a trophy probably isn't going to change that fact.

I'm sure someone will accuse me of being a pinko-commie for saying this, but youth sports should be all about fun (without participation trophies), exercise and learning the game until about 9 or 10. Once you get to 10 or 11, then you can start making things more competitive.

But there is never a need for a participation trophy.

 

[OleMissLogo]

I agree with this. I don't see the harm in having an end of the year pizza party and handing out trophies for things like "best attitude" etc to kids that are younger than 8, so long as it isn't done with the attitude of "we don't want their feelings hurt." I just think it should be a fun way to celebrate the end of a season.

Around 8 or 9, though, I think it gets to the point where the kids should know the meaning of winning and losing at that point.

Because honestly, how many 5 year olds know enough about baseball or soccer to appreciate winning and losing in it? That changes around 8 or 9.

 

[jb1020]

I have kids and have coached 3-4 yo tee ball and 5 yo baseball

Its more of a "congrats on playing baseball and being part of a team" memento than it is a participation trophy. Its basically something to remember their team by. My 5 yo still looks at his trophy and talks about "playing with the Pirates"

its not like they keep scores and records anyways.

 

[dawgstudent]

At age 6 - I knew if we won or lost.

 

[uptowndawg]

Don't most youth teams get an end of the year type trophy? I remember we got them in elementary school sports. Then they also gave out special awards for best OL, LB, back, etc. Also had trophies for conference and league champs.

The cool thing back then was to play as many sports for as many years as you could so you cold have a bigger trophy collection than the other neighborhood kids.

It's an achievement for 3rd grader to participate in a full season of a sport. Why not give them a piece of shiny plastic?

 

[patdog]

At age 6 - I knew if we won or lost.

Yeah. I think it's ridiculous not to keep score almost no matter how young the kids are. But there's no need for league standings, playoffs, etc. until 8-10 years of age. As for participation trophies, I can't see what they hurt at that age.

 

[FlotownDawg]

What's the big deal about giving little kids a trophy as a memento?

I've coached all three of my daughters in soccer and my players always enjoyed getting their trophies at the end of the season. It's something the kids can look at and remember the fun times they had playing soccer. I played baseball as a kid and absolutely sucked, but I still got my trophy at the end of the season, so I could see that trophy and remember the fun times I had playing baseball with my friends. By the time you get to middle school, most of the kids who are getting "participation trophies" that suck at sports have quit playing anyway. Then you start giving the trophies to the best players and teams.

 

[GloryDawg]

I think they should get a ring.

 

[aTotal360]

I see what you did there. +1

 

[OleMissLogo]

Yeah. I think it's ridiculous not to keep score almost no matter how young the kids are. But there's no need for league standings, playoffs, etc. until 8-10 years of age. As for participation trophies, I can't see what they hurt at that age.

That's really what I meant. Not that you shouldn't keep score, but that kids that young don't really understand the ramifications of winning and losing.

 

[DawgsOnTheWing]

We gave 7 yr baseball trophies for things like "Most Improved", "Mr. Versatile", etc for all on the team. Not participation trophies per se, but did acknowledge the positive attitudes and improvements that each kid demonstrated during the season. Positive reinforcement, you know....

 

[mstateglfr]

Yeah. I think it's ridiculous not to keep score almost no matter how young the kids are.

Oldest daughter started basketball this past winter- she was in 2nd grade. They didn't keep score. And I had no idea what the score was for any of the games, it would have been sad to be the one person sitting there keeping score. It was competitive from the standpoint that teams played defense and there were simple offensive sets(that rivaled Stans' teams).
But no score was kept.

No score was kept because it was a league that was meant to introduce how to play in a competitive environment. When a sport is being introduced, what is the point in keeping score? Its like introducing a kid to a new card game by playing a hand and then declaring that you wont the hand.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

I got them as a kid. Zero harm - in fact, probably beneficial.

They were cool mementos. Had the name of the team on them, the sport it was, looked good on a wall, and maybe reminded you of good times you had as part of a team. Do you really think a kid is going to look back and brag about his participation trophies, suddenly becoming an entitled brat? That's ludicrous.

I think that while it's nice to celebrate the accomplishment of winning, that's not really the point of kids sports - it's more about teamwork and learning the game, than crushing the competition. As a matter of fact, for kids sports (< high school) I think that participation trophies are a much less harmful practice than teaching young kids the Ricky Bobby mentality.

Insinuating that participation trophies are making kids weak is hyper-macho nonsense.

 

[UpTheMiddlex3Punt]

Don't give a trophy, give a banner.

As a part-time youth soccer coach, I'm okay with the trophies (we give medals instead, like finishing a marathon). As far as knowing who wins, we keep score starting in 2nd grade, but honestly, as a coach I'm worrying more about telling my kids their booboos will be okay and keeping them focused on the game than I am about the score.

 

[Shooter McGavin.sixpack]

My thoughts exactly. It's kids sports meant to introduce them to the game and learn the basics of the sport. It means absolutely nothing in the long run. People acting like participation trophies are "what's wrong with our youth!" are ridiculous. I see nothing wrong with giving the trophies up until the age of 9 or so.

I got them as a kid also ,and through some miracle I guess, I became a productive member of society who knows I'm not entitled to anything I didn't earn.

 

[aTotal360]

Where I live they seem to have a pretty good policy on youth sports (8 and younger). If it's a league where you pay money and make the team regardless, they don't keep score. If you actually have to try out and make the cut, they keep score.

 

[fishwater99]

I coach soccer and I don't give them out..

We are supposed to buy them for the team per league rules. I have refused to do so so far.
I even had 2 parents tell me they don't want them, one was a football coach.

 

[kired]

I wonder if James Harrison gives back his paycheck if the Steelers lose.

I'm not in favor of giving out participation trophies - especially not after you get ~10 years old. But it's stupid to make a big deal of it.

I do like the idea of giving out some end of season memento. Little medals, baseballs with the team name... something like that other than an actual trophy. But I'm not going to throw out a trophy if my kid is given one. I got a few growing up and it had no effect on me then or now. It's absurd to think a kid's perspective on life can be affected by giving him a meaningless trophy for playing sports.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

I agree here. I don't remember the age I started t-ball but I distinctly recall winning & losing as well as crying when I got out...especially the times I was called out for deliberately knocking those gargantuan helmets off my head in order to see first base.

I digress, we had those end of season pizza parties. We got player specific certificates & maybe a small trophy or "medal", but only when we competed for or "won" the league did we get bigger ones that we felt more proud of. Yet, those bigger ones may have been once we reached the age y'all mentioned. Cochise Sr. was my coach for many years, I'll have to ask him.

Slight, aside, Mama Cochise recently cleaned out the attic & gave me a bunch of "my accolades." One was a framed certificate of Hitting Champ with a .600+ avg the 1st or 2nd year of kid pitch (some mom kept the book for our team)!

Carry on with your thread, LOSERS!****

 

[CochiseCowbell]

What age did you start playing football, uptowndawg?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Eons ago when I played Little League, we got certificates and that was all. I coached all three of my kids at one time or another and we never gave out trophies. I used to have some sort of game recognition when I coached and it wasn't always for being the star of the game. I looked for reasons to give a player who needed a pat on the back in their development each game. The seasoned players caught on quick and really got behind this. Sometimes a Pizza Coupon or water bottle means a lot more than some trophy on the dresser. The higher ups in the leagues liked this too. I always told the admins that when I took a team of youngsters on, I didn't care what the record ended up being. I wanted them to have fun and learn and develop.

One summer the top admin asked me to take on a group of 14-15 girls who were from two different teams that both coaches quit before the start of the season. I told them from the start I didn't care what our record was as long as everyone was working and having a good time. That fall, 5 of the older girls earned starting spots on the Varsity team and a couple went on to play JC and small college ball.

I think all play before high school for volunteer ball should be made more with development in mind and less with wins, losses and trophies in mind.

 

[uptowndawg]

3rd grade

What age did you start playing football, uptowndawg?

City sponsored elementary league. I think we had about 8 teams in the 3rd-4th grade league. You had the option to play as early as 1st grade on the 3/4 team but I just wasn't one of those.

 

[fishwater99]

Good Post. ^

 

[Bucky Dog]

I've coached all three of my daughters in soccer and my players always enjoyed getting their trophies at the end of the season. It's something the kids can look at and remember the fun times they had playing soccer. I played baseball as a kid and absolutely sucked, but I still got my trophy at the end of the season, so I could see that trophy and remember the fun times I had playing baseball with my friends. By the time you get to middle school, most of the kids who are getting "participation trophies" that suck at sports have quit playing anyway. Then you start giving the trophies to the best players and teams.

Seriously?? It's not real life. You have to teach your kids early on that it is about winning and losing. I'm not saying demean them or anything but my goodness we are creating a world of entitlement. The only way you learn how to win and get better is to feel the pain of defeat! Do NOT give trophies for participating. Trophies are for winners. Be a good coach or parent and show them what it takes to win!

 

[Seinfeld]

Best post of the thread so far. The bottom line for me is that I won't judge James Harrison as long as people like him don't look down on those that view the world differently. For all the if you ain't first, you're last people out there, more power to you. For me, there's a lot more to life than winning and losing.

Should the man/woman who spent six months training for a marathon and then went out and actually ran 26 miles for the first time in their life return their medal because they didn't finish in the Top 10?

Or from a more personal standpoint, when talking about my 4-year old daughter who was terrified to even get in the water last year, should I tell her that we're not getting ice cream after her 2 weeks of swim lessons because there were a couple kids in her class that swam a little better?

For those of you simply trying to make the point that too many people these days are given accolades for minimal effort, don't get me wrong, I 110% agree. That said, I do think there's a happy medium between that and stripping a kid of an award because the team didn't win a title.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I've got no problem with participation trophies for kids.

The kids know whether they won something or not, so they aren't being fooled into thinking they did awesome, especially if you have a separate type of trophy you hand out for the champion and runner up in the league when the kids are old enough to actually keep score of the games.

Having two kids that play sports currently, and having coached multiple teams myself, the point of sports when they are young is to 1) get kids active, and 2) let them have some fun. After those two things, teaching them about the sport and teaching them how to compete and handle both success and failure are secondary lessons that become more of an emphasis as the kids get older, while the first two lessons become less important.

I don't think the participation trophy will keep a kid coming back nearly as much as the experiences he/she had, but it doesn't hurt anything, so I don't understand the outrage. When I've coached teams, I've always told the parents that one of my primary goals as a coach is for the kids to have enough fun that they want to come out the next year and play again. If the leagues I played in quit giving our participation trophies, I would still want to recognize all of the kids I coach at the end of each season and find some way to tell them that I appreciated having them play. The trophy itself just gives you the more formal opportunity to single out the kid and thank him/her for working hard to learn and get better.

 

[johnson86-1]

Where I live they seem to have a pretty good policy on youth sports (8 and younger). If it's a league where you pay money and make the team regardless, they don't keep score. If you actually have to try out and make the cut, they keep score.

That sounds like a terrible policy because why in the hell do you have a team 8 and younger where you have tryouts for teams? I know there are lots of parents of future MLB baseball players that disagree, but sports until jr. high should just be about developing all the players that are interested an letting them have fun. There will be lots of players that are for whatever reason ahead developmentally (physically and mentally) than other kids their age who won't have any particularly good athletic ability once everybody grows up. You're going to spend a lot of time "developing" kids that aren't going to have any aptitude to play through high school and discourage a lot of potentially good players from playing.

 

[FlotownDawg]

Not sure if serious?

Seriously?? It's not real life. You have to teach your kids early on that it is about winning and losing. I'm not saying demean them or anything but my goodness we are creating a world of entitlement. The only way you learn how to win and get better is to feel the pain of defeat! Do NOT give trophies for participating. Trophies are for winners. Be a good coach or parent and show them what it takes to win!

If you're a 7 year old playing a sport you look forward to getting your trophy at the end of the season. What's wrong with that? My oldest daughter, who is 11, played Upward and then rec soccer and got a trophy or a medal at the end of each season. Now she plays club soccer and they don't give trophies or medals unless they win a tournament. She is not an entitled brat whining about not getting a trophy. For little kids, trophies or medals are a fun way to end the season. Youth sports aren't about winning or losing anyway. They are about having fun and learning the game. Some of you take it waaaaaay to seriously. Participation trophies aren't the downfall of youth. Jeez.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Oldest daughter started basketball this past winter- she was in 2nd grade. They didn't keep score. And I had no idea what the score was for any of the games, it would have been sad to be the one person sitting there keeping score. It was competitive from the standpoint that teams played defense and there were simple offensive sets(that rivaled Stans' teams).
But no score was kept.

No score was kept because it was a league that was meant to introduce how to play in a competitive environment. When a sport is being introduced, what is the point in keeping score? Its like introducing a kid to a new card game by playing a hand and then declaring that you wont the hand.

In all honesty, we could probably use a little less "keeping score" in the US when it comes to sports development.

We are so competitive in this country, that we often hinder the talent development of kids by having them play games all the time. You see this especially in soccer, baseball, and basketball, where kids at the highest levels spend the majority of their time in tournaments competing, rather than working on skills.

Games are important, but I think we could benefit in some ways if we went to more of the Euro model for development of our more elite athletes. In that model, they'll often go months without playing a game. They're just working skills, skills, skills. That's one reason why, particularly in basketball and soccer, you see the foreign born players demonstrate much more developed skills. In the US, our young athletes often rely on athleticism in both sports over skill. That's another whole argument though, but I do think at the lowest levels, not keeping score and focusing on specific plays when kids demonstrate a proper skill is more important.

 

[00Dawg]

I'm with you. The Little League mementos I hung on to were the team-signed ball that we got one year (in a glove-shaped trophy that I care nothing about), a MIP award, and a game ball that went with award #2.
I did get participation trophies in t-ball (5 and 6 year olds, IIRC), but I eventually abandoned them. The team pictures that went with them meant more.
Nowadays, I cringe when my kids get an award just for showing up. I can stomach the "best team player" ones somewhat, but my experiences with hiring recent college grads are pushing me to be tougher on my kids because hardly anyone else is (see that Trigger Warning article someone linked in another thread).

 

[RebelBruiser]

That sounds like a terrible policy because why in the hell do you have a team 8 and younger where you have tryouts for teams? I know there are lots of parents of future MLB baseball players that disagree, but sports until jr. high should just be about developing all the players that are interested an letting them have fun. There will be lots of players that are for whatever reason ahead developmentally (physically and mentally) than other kids their age who won't have any particularly good athletic ability once everybody grows up. You're going to spend a lot of time "developing" kids that aren't going to have any aptitude to play through high school and discourage a lot of potentially good players from playing.

Not only that, but that kind of practice encourages specialization. It puts a lot of pressure on the parents to find the sport that the child performs best at, and then funnel that child into that sport year round. If you don't, your child will fall behind, or have to catch up each season when they join back with the team. I think that takes a lot of the fun out of sports for kids, because they get less variety, and I think you will see a lot more that will burn out. I've seen it myself with baseball. I've seen kids grow up from the time they are 7-8 years old playing travel baseball year round only to decide to quit and play lacrosse or football when they are 13 or 14, because they're tired of baseball.

The same happens in other sports. If you get no variety, you'll eventually get tired of it. I read a good article on Matt Stafford and Clayton Kershaw who grew up playing sports together. They were obviously elite athletes at their respective sports, but they played soccer, football, and baseball together. They didn't focus on any of them year round. They'd jump into the next sport, and I think that ultimately keeps the fun involved in the sport and helps a kid from getting too inundated with one sport.

The problem though is that too many of these competitive leagues put pressure on all the kids to come back and play both spring and fall and sometimes summer with the same team. If you leave to try another sport, you may lose your spot on the team. It's insane, and it forces this problem.

 

[Optimus Prime 4]

Isn't earning a letter just a participation trophy, yet no one cares

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I think the issue has become muddied. I don't think participation trophies, awards, certificates or anything like that is the issue. When I went to the College World Series in 1979 and 1981 we got little bats and a small memento to represent our playing in the CWS. Many other tournaments I attended prior to that had some sort gift for your participatiuon. All that was fine. The part where it gets to be destructive, in my opinion, is when you stop awarding achievement. When a league or tournament doesn't differentiate the awards for the champions or MVPs just so the other players don't feel bad.

Now the age thing is also a factor. I don't really think kids under 8 should play any sort of organized sport. If you want to have "club type" fundamental training leagues that would be great. An anecdote from my life is in Floral Park, NY where I grew up, Little League started at 8. That first year was a once a week thing on Saturday and was more of an introduction to full team Baseball. Later my father was asked to run the 8 year olds and we actually changed it to a fundamentals practice in the first few hours with a break and a scrimmage after the break. It was basically what we did everyday at MSU when we did not have a game. Those kids who went through that program when they reached High School won two Long Island Championships in a row. Playing actual games is a waste of time with 4,5,6,7 or even 8 year olds.

Now when you hit ages that games start, winning matters. Sportsmanship matters. Losing with class matters. All these things teach you lessons in life and gives a young person something they can bring with them to adulthood. Dealing with both success and failure is a great byproduct of sports. So when we don't want to see our kids sad when they lose or fail and our solution is then don't have anyone win or succeed. That is the real issue.

 

[aTotal360]

No it's not. Believe it or not, there are kids that seek out to the best and want to compete at a very young age. What's wrong with giving them a venue and opportunity to do that? You want to paint every kid with a broad brush. Not everyone of them is a helpless turd that will developmentally stunted if they don't get a participation "trophy". You've watched too much tv. There are some VERY competitive baseball leagues around here (GA). These are the Warner Robins area leagues that go to the LLWS almost every year. They also make it very clear what leagues are what. It's not a bad system at all if you know what you are getting into. There are plenty of other leagues that are less competitive that a kid can play in. Again, you have the option to chose the league that right for you and your kid.

 

[seshomoru]

Which is actually worse for kids?

1. Getting a memento for being on a team with their friends.

2. And I **** you not, this was posted by someone and it showed up on my wife's facebook feed "Congrats to the <team name="" redacted=""> 10 year old (baseball team name redacted)! Tournament champs and 49-3 so far this year!"

That was posted in May this year. 52 baseball games by May. And 49-3? Don't tell me you're teaching those kids about "winning at life." Your teaching them that their parents have enough money to travel with other parents who have enough money (or debt) so you can go some where with a loaded team and smoke other ten year olds at a game.


I think I still have my very first baseball end of year trophy. One of those little "gold" gloves with a baseball signed by the team. It's special not because I won anything to get it. It's special because it reminds me of a fun summer and friends I had over 25 years ago. It's fine if you don't want to hand them out I suppose, but this over the top attitude that somehow participation mementos are some abomination to lessons they should learn doesn't make you sound like an awesome parent. It makes you sound like an *******.</team>

 

[FirstPoetsThenSunDoggy]

It's easier for James Harrison to do this than it is for others. I never got a trophy for participation in anything, but I do think it's important for children to be acknowledged and appreciated. Create winners, yes. But don't create badasses and egoists. Teamwork is one of the most important lessons of life in contemporary society. Talent is not necessarily valued above the ability to work with others.

 

[BulldogBlitz]

If you're a 7 year old playing a sport you look forward to getting your trophy at the end of the season.

I've had three kids in sports at that age. Each has a slightly different take on it. I've never said anything in front of the kids that's for sure, lest I get looked down upon for taking it waaaaaay too seriously. All three have the basic attitude of "oh look, it's a trophy", the first son asked "why did i get this, we never won a game", daughter could care less, second son says "did i get this for scoring?". He'd rather play continuously. I won't deny them their trophy, but when we get home, it's pretty clear they care not for keeping it. They do love their pictures though.

They are about having fun and learning the game.

having fun, yes. learning, that's heavily dependent on the association at that age because it is real hit or miss.

Participation trophies aren't the downfall of youth.

Nah, not the downfall, but it certainly adds to it. This incremental carp is akin to boiling a frog. If you have a pot of boiling water and drop a live frog in, he jumps right out. If you put a frog in cool water and throw the pot on the fire, that sucker will stay in there until he's boiled and never even realize it is happening. It's like many other things in society, "oh come on man, what's the harm in this little ______". Pandora's box was opened and encouraging bad sports players to continue isn't really helping anyone. Teaching them sportsmanship and team play, that's great stuff.

 

[johnson86-1]

No it's not. Believe it or not, there are kids that seek out to the best and want to compete at a very young age. What's wrong with giving them a venue and opportunity to do that?

Maybe 7 years olds aren't really mature enough to be making life decisions and should be encouraged to have interests other than competitive sports, even if they really love competing?

You want to paint every kid with a broad brush. Not everyone of them is a helpless turd that will developmentally stunted if they don't get a participation "trophy".

Participation trophies don't really have anything to do with slotting 7 years olds into different leagues based on athletic ability.

You've watched too much tv.

Must be because my time isn't taken up making sure my 6 year old practices so that he won't get cut when he's 7.

There are some VERY competitive baseball leagues around here (GA). These are the Warner Robins area leagues that go to the LLWS almost every year. They also make it very clear what leagues are what. It's not a bad system at all if you know what you are getting into. There are plenty of other leagues that are less competitive that a kid can play in. Again, you have the option to chose the league that right for you and your kid.

Even in Atlanta, I'm not sure you have a population a large enough where it makes sense to slot 7 year olds in athletics. If they have enough athletic ability, they will be able to develop into college and/or professional players even if they don't start slotting until they are 12 or 13, as crazy as that sounds. I will say baseball and soccer are a little different because you can make up for a lot of natural ability with practice, but it's still insane for 7 year olds to have competitive tryouts for sports.

 

[aTotal360]

You are missing the point entirely. There is nothing wrong with giving kids the OPTION to play in either league. If a 6 year old wants to be part of legitimately competitive league, he should have that option. You are saying that these leagues shouldn't exist because of YOUR FEELINGS on the matter. I'm simply saying they should exist if kids are interested in it. I'm not a fan of giving people 1 choice. Let the kids and parents choose.

I'm not advocating one type of league over another. I'm simply advocating for options.