Serious question - Not bashing or looking for hyperbolic statements

[HerrosHeroes]

We have outscored our last 2 opponents by a combined total of 180-115 thats an avg score of 90-57.5 or a margin of 32.5 and still people complain.

 

[HagginHall1999]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I won't disagree with the taking the air out of the ball, but I didn't see it last night. We pressed and trapped late. To me last night was more about who was in the last 10 mins. We played alot of Collins/Hopkins/Oscar...not a good combo.

 

[chroix]

The irony is thick here. Very thick.

You’re both kind of a holes. Pretty sure everyone on here is to some degree. At least the ones that disagree with me.

 

[RoyKent]

I read the first 10-15 posts in this thread, and my response to just about every one of them would have been essentially the same ... so I decided to just say it here. But, of course, I've said it many times before. John Calipari is not a good basketball coach. There's really no more to it than that. Somebody described him perfectly on this board the other day ... he's a used car salesman in a sweatsuit.
AND ... spare me the Hall of Fame b.s. The fact that John Calipari is in the Hall of Fame is the most laughable fact that I have ever known of in college basketball.

What team are you a fan of?

 

[kyjeff1]

You’re both kind of a holes. Pretty sure everyone on here is to some degree. At least the ones that disagree with me.

Oh I know I come across as an *******, but at least I don't attack others for how they feel about the state of the program or twist words to fit an agenda. I tell it like it is, but I'm just giving the old man a dose of his own medicine.

 

[chroix]

Oh I know I come across as an *******, but at least I don't attack others for how they feel about the state of the program or twist words to fit an agenda. I tell it like it is, but I'm just giving the old man a dose of his own medicine.

We all deserve it some days.

 

[sam_o]

Cal takes the air out of the ball with a lead it’s a known phenomenon. Driven me crazy for years

 

[sam_o]

Man, why are you being so negative?

it’s different when they do it of course lol

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

UK was stuck on 70 points for a long time last night for sure.
It is a trend with Cal. He ain't gonna change who he is. Same with Stoops.

 

[kyjeff1]

it’s different when they do it of course lol

Oh every time.
My favorites are the ones that trash the team, individual players and Cal, in the game thread over and over, then, after the game, they attack everyone and anyone that dares say anything but praise. It's hilarious.
The biggest culprit has posted in this thread very recently.

 

[Monroe Claxton]

It has to do with metrics and analytics

 

[kl40504_rivals]

The irony is thick here. Very thick.

Tough when you tell a lie on this board and are called out for it.

 

[bigblueinsanity_rivals250340]

I think this team is different. While we started slow, we got rolling. If you watch a lot of top teams this year, a lot are getting beat or winning by single digits at half. This team will be fine.

I agree. I think what op sees is cal treating it like a live practice of sorts. Trying different combinations and concepts in game action because we have the game in hand.

I don't think the Wisconsin game is a good example. Wisconsin was a great team and they got some very favorable officiating down the stretch

 

[CatStucknWA]

I think last night was an anomaly - as we only had 9 scholly players, so Cal was seeing who plays well together.
Not concerned about last night's performance, was nice to see them come out the 2nd half blasting, then Cal went all mad scientist doing experiments.

 

[kyjeff1]

Tough when you tell a lie on this board and are called out for it.

"So"

 

[kl40504_rivals]

We have outscored our last 2 opponents by a combined total of 180-115 thats an avg score of 90-57.5 or a margin of 32.5 and still people complain.

So. Not an indication of anything when we are playing cupcakes.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

"So"

Seems to be normal for you.

 

[ORCAT]

Happened in 2015 against Wisconsin as well. We didn't have a massive lead but still took the air out of the ball. Those 3 shot clock violations hurt big time.

This is the game that first came to mind when I read the OP. Also did it in an SEC championship game, maybe against MSU(?), so it's been a trait for Cal to try taking the air out of the ball late in games. But, I think last night was like the poster above said, he was playing with lineups with Washington at PG and the offense/defense changed dramatically with that lineup in the game. We lose a lot of energy when Wheeler and Oscar are out of the game, especially at the same time.

 

[kyjeff1]

Seems to be normal for you.

Well that's a very negative statement.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

I agree, we play bad the last 10 minutes of the game way to much and if it’s close late we usually play pretty poorly. I think we got comfortable and the lineup changes affected that a bit last night. We just need to push the pace like we do earlier. Fatigue could play a role as well.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

Gave everyone but Allen a shot. 9 minutes. NIL money the only thing the kid must be sticking around for. Recruited over again next year, very odd to stick around. Dude could get major minutes at other power five programs.

9-10 minutes a game is about perfect for Allen on this team.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

We were drubbing them by what, 30 at one point? The players started to check out, the horses were called off.

Still won by 25 not doing anything the last 10 minutes too. Refs really called nothing on our end and ticky tack fouls on their end as well.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Grady is better than Allen. Has better mobility and might be our best finisher at the rim. To be honest, I’m a bit annoyed by the same old arguments. I get you are an Allen fan. Calipari giving Allen plenty of opportunity, but we also now have a team full of shooters where last year we struggled with shooting. He is less of a novelty, and credit to Calipari for bringing in talent. Also, by the way, the kid is only a sophomore.

Allen isn't a superstar by any means but to say he got " plenty of opportunity" is laughable . He played a few dudes that didnt give a **** last year the entire damn year while our house was on fire . While setting DA entire games . Thats the truth whether you agree or not .

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

9-10 minutes a game is about perfect for Allen on this team.

I'd agree but I dont think he will play any at all. He embarrassed Cal in the MSU game , isn't gonna happen again . Ego too big .

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I read the first 10-15 posts in this thread, and my response to just about every one of them would have been essentially the same ... so I decided to just say it here. But, of course, I've said it many times before. John Calipari is not a good basketball coach. There's really no more to it than that. Somebody described him perfectly on this board the other day ... he's a used car salesman in a sweatsuit.
AND ... spare me the Hall of Fame b.s. The fact that John Calipari is in the Hall of Fame is the most laughable fact that I have ever known of in college basketball.

Yep he just rolled the ball out to all those final fours and championship games. This is a laughable take. Like I don’t like Bill Self but I can’t legitimately say Bill Self is a terrible coach. You want a terrible coach look at a guy like Jerry Stackhouse. That’s a bad coach. Mark Gottfried, Mike Jarvis, Dave Bliss. Those are bad coaches.

 

[*Fox2Monk*]

I'd agree but I dont think he will play any at all. He embarrassed Cal in the MSU game , isn't gonna happen again . Ego too big .

Maybe embarrassing a bit but I doubt Cal is gonna hold it against a player for playing well and winning a game. That’s really beyond petty.

 

[chroix]

I'd agree but I dont think he will play any at all. He embarrassed Cal in the MSU game , isn't gonna happen again . Ego too big .

Weird made up scenario. Wouldn’t he have encouraged him to transfer if this were the case?

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Weird made up scenario. Wouldn’t he have encouraged him to transfer if this were the case?

Maybe so , I love a good conspiracy .. lol . Maybe he did and DA wanted that NIL cash ?

 

[chroix]

Maybe so , I love a good conspiracy .. lol . Maybe he did and DA wanted that NIL cash ?

Doesn’t make any sense. Allen could have transferred to UofL or Western if he was just in it for local NIL money.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Doesn’t make any sense. Allen could have transferred to UofL or Western if he was just in it for local NIL money.

Aint no money like Big Blue money !

 

[JoeBeeHall]

Start the subs and let them get tired then the best 5 can finish the game fresh.

 

[Soupbean]

I got frustrated and posted something I wish I hadn't late in the game. I used to do that a lot more and got away from that. That being said, there is a phenomenon that is, IMO, troubling, as it seems to persist season after season. For whatever reason, our performance sees a dramatic decline in the last 8-10 mins of games. We score at a slower clip, our defense is much worse, we take bad shots, and turn it over. As I said, the reason it concerns me is that it happens across seasons, not just due to a certain team or talent level. I don't think this was the case in the early seasons, or I just didn't notice because we were killing it.

To me, this must be a management level problem. This group hasn't had that many games but it's happening with them as well. What is about Cal's system or approach that leads to this result. Or am I wrong, and this is not as big a problem as I think?

Last night and in blow out games I dont think it applies as everybody gets sloppy and less focused up by 40. But overall and historically there is no doubt Cal has a lot of Stoops in him especially when we're up 8-10.

He starts trying to kill clock with 5 minutes left and slows it down and that clearly kills the engery on the floor with his teams. Same thing Stoops does.

My belief has always been, until you're inside a minute NEVER start milking clock. With the 3 point shot today a 10 point lead is nothing and teams can have A BUNCH of possessions left inside 4 minutes.

Football is the same way. You have to ask yourself, what to the other guys hope we will do? Hold the ball and be less agressive or keep trying to score and get first downs. One way (keep playing aggresive) you control your own destiny, the other way you get in the nervous and hope mindset. And you can physically feel Cal and Stoops tighten up down the stretch and that filters down to the players.

 

[fastpaste101]

I think cal is prioritizing the opportunity to learn about combinations and giving people experience over margin of victory. Had he been coaching for that we would have won by a lot more.

as for 2015 I think he was just stubborn. He does not like to improv.

 

[Cobb4uk_rivals287622]

Oh every time.
My favorites are the ones that trash the team, individual players and Cal, in the game thread over and over, then, after the game, they attack everyone and anyone that dares say anything but praise. It's hilarious.
The biggest culprit has posted in this thread very recently.

I'll probably get bashed for this but there a certain segment that shows their ignorance about the game of basketball every time they post. Yes, they have as much right as anyone else to post but I'm embarrassed at some of the nonsense they spew. UK isn't the only team on the planet that has talent or decent coaches. The last 5 to 8 minutes of the game is usually played a little different than the rest of the game and your adjustments either work to a positive or negative influence to the out come.

 

[LowCountryCat]

UK was stuck on 70 points for a long time last night for sure.
It is a trend with Cal. He ain't gonna change who he is. Same with Stoops.

I watched that 10 minute segment very carefully. I don’t think the officials did any meddling. Calipari did actually pull them back, I saw him do it as he stepped out onto the floor during one of our offensive sets. I will say that we did get sort of cold at that point and lackluster and lethargic. And we missed some easy shots. Missing easy shots usually translates to the other team scoring. And about halfway through that stretch calipari pulled wheeler out of the game. That really slowed things down as well.

 

[Elliott Tim]

I am in no way a basketball expert. I stated this previously and had some tell me I didn't know what I was talking about. I called it (I am sure I heard it some where) taking the air out of the ball. The play slows down the last part of the games (The 10 to 15 minute mark left of games) to where possessions are less per minute.

I noticed it seriously during the 2012 season. Those games where teams like ku came back to make it a game against UK where Self's statement..."they ran out of time" came from...

Almost every game since I have noticed it. Anyone can come here and state again I do not know what I am talking about how what Cal is doing is very smart and works great and that is fine.

I see a UK team burying their opponents playing a certain way all game until that time Cal....takes the air out of the ball and here comes teams making a game of it. Yeah UK may win but they sure do not intimidate, take a teams will to win away, or allow (Pick the UK team.) the particular UK team to see what they are really capable of due to what I call taking the "safe" way out by playing statistics. (I know the numbers) Why does Cal always get away from what brought him to where he can "Take the air out of the ball"...

I guess I will just concede, Cal and many others know better than me... (Speaking for myself, I like to use what I do best if it is a case where a win or a loss is involved...If you beat me, you will beat me while I am doing my best. I can live with that.)

How are you? Great voice of reason post.
Us old folks know it's just a game and life
goes on.

 

[LowCountryCat]

Yep he just rolled the ball out to all those final fours and championship games. This is a laughable take. Like I don’t like Bill Self but I can’t legitimately say Bill Self is a terrible coach. You want a terrible coach look at a guy like Jerry Stackhouse. That’s a bad coach. Mark Gottfried, Mike Jarvis, Dave Bliss. Those are bad coaches.

He is not a bad coach but he is very stubborn and set in his ways. And he has a couple of glaring flaws that are obvious and that’s easy to exploit by better coaches.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I'll probably get bashed for this but there a certain segment that shows their ignorance about the game of basketball every time they post. Yes, they have as much right as anyone else to post but I'm embarrassed at some of the nonsense they spew. UK isn't the only team on the planet that has talent or decent coaches. The last 5 to 8 minutes of the game is usually played a little different than the rest of the game and your adjustments either work to a positive or negative influence to the out come.

Do you think Cal gets too conservative too quickly in most games ? Whether you want to call it milking it , or running clock , whatever , do you think he tightens up the last minutes of games ?

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

He is not a bad coach but he is very stubborn and set in his ways. And he has a couple of glaring flaws that are obvious and that’s easy to exploit by better coaches.

This exactly . We all want Cal to adjust to his obvious weaknesses . He refusal to play any zone . His refusal to go zone even on OOB plays ( which has cost us wins) . his refusal to change the lineup last year . His promotion of some players on occasion . His lack of scouting opponents and setting a particular strategy for a certain opponent. There are cracks in his game he could address , but he's stubborn to a fault .

 

[BourbonBalz]

When you have big leads against overmatched opponents this usually happens with most all teams. It’s human nature to not go as hard when you’re up 20-30 points in the last 10 minutes or so of a game. Throw in the fact that more minutes are given to bench players in these situations and it’s a no-brainer. It’s only concerning when it happens in close competitive games.