What should the new flag look like. I still think its a shame that all those Union soldiers killed each other since evidentally the confederacy didn't exist.
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- Thread starter amcdan2000
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Actually, Lincoln never recognized the Confederacy, he believed the South was just in rebellion and
once the rebellion was put down the Union would return as it existed prior to the hostilities.
People walking around saying "They're trying to erase history!" blow my mind.
This is the best write up of the whole situation I've come across:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-right-way-to-remember-the-confederacy-1436568855
This is the best write up of the whole situation I've come across:
http://www.wsj.com/articles/the-right-way-to-remember-the-confederacy-1436568855
That was a write up with promise that failed to live up to a quality start. I think a lot of high school English teachers would've knocked him for starting in one direction before veering down a tangent in the summation, not to mention several theories stated as fact and a nice straw man argument thrown in. I just take it as another example of the poor state of modern journalism.
I'm fine with removing the flag from public buildings and I guess I'm ok with a new flag if it isn't goofy but removing flags from civil war parks and dismantling or taking down confederate statues and memorials is a dumb overreaction.
I agree 100%. It's just fine to let it fly in museums, parks, etc. People can fly it on their own property to their hearts content and I have no problem with it. But without a doubt, it needs to be taken off the state flag because it does not equally or completely represent our WHOLE state. It's not some kind of "PC war," or an attack on our heritage, it's 100% legitimate. Thats plenty of justification to change it, IMO.
The battle flag is gonna come off the state flag... period. It's just a matter of time. 5% of this country may think it's the dumb PC sissy lib-ruls, the other 95% calls it sanity. Next up will be all the Robert E Lee elementary schools and Confederate avenues. Don't spend time fighting a battle that was lost 150 years ago.
I've got a design that's clean (no substituting out the battle flag). It has a vertical bar on both sides, each 20% of the width of the flag (representing the 20th state). The two bars also represent the major bodies of water for the state: the Mississippi River and the Gulf of Mexico. Between them is a stylized magnolia flower. Not the tree (the magnolia flower is much more recognizable than the tree in a drawing). No special numerical significance in the number of petals. The colors would be white, blue, and green (for the leaves on the magnolia flower).
It sounds interesting. I'm still pushing to let the 5th graders decide...
the next Mississippi state flag.
(1) 5th graders design and submit their designs to a 7-member "flag commission" (a commission with NO current or past elected local, state-wide, or national offices)
(2) The "flag commission" narrows the field to 3-5 designs
(3) The 5th graders vote for their favorite. If no design receives a majority vote, then the 5th graders vote in a run-off between the designs that garnered the most votes in the first round of voting.
Personally, I'd like to see a very simple design ... in the vein of New Mexico's state flag.
the next Mississippi state flag.
(1) 5th graders design and submit their designs to a 7-member "flag commission" (a commission with NO current or past elected local, state-wide, or national offices)
(2) The "flag commission" narrows the field to 3-5 designs
(3) The 5th graders vote for their favorite. If no design receives a majority vote, then the 5th graders vote in a run-off between the designs that garnered the most votes in the first round of voting.
Personally, I'd like to see a very simple design ... in the vein of New Mexico's state flag.
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Solution to flag problem - NO STATE FLAG
No doubt some would still be offended, but having no state flag would initially offend fewer than any flag replacement.
Mississippi would be the only state with no state flag.
Over time people would begin to think of Mississippi each time they saw a flagless flag pole (ffp), and that would really irritate those who hate the State of Mississippi and/or the South in general.
Eventually there would be a push to ban ffp’s nation-wide, but that might not accomplish their purpose; anytime they didn’t see a ffp they might wonder if a ffp had previously been at the location where they weren’t seeing one, and then they’re back to thinking of Mississippi.
MSU could easily incorporate the ffp into the designs for uniforms, decals, and what not.
Matter of fact, I may get a MSU t-shirt displaying an outline of the State of Mississippi with a ffp extending through it.
We could even use the ffp’s in place of the I’s in Mississippi. Come to think of it, the lower case “i” already looks a lot like a ffp.
Lot of marketing potential.
No doubt some would still be offended, but having no state flag would initially offend fewer than any flag replacement.
Mississippi would be the only state with no state flag.
Over time people would begin to think of Mississippi each time they saw a flagless flag pole (ffp), and that would really irritate those who hate the State of Mississippi and/or the South in general.
Eventually there would be a push to ban ffp’s nation-wide, but that might not accomplish their purpose; anytime they didn’t see a ffp they might wonder if a ffp had previously been at the location where they weren’t seeing one, and then they’re back to thinking of Mississippi.
MSU could easily incorporate the ffp into the designs for uniforms, decals, and what not.
Matter of fact, I may get a MSU t-shirt displaying an outline of the State of Mississippi with a ffp extending through it.
We could even use the ffp’s in place of the I’s in Mississippi. Come to think of it, the lower case “i” already looks a lot like a ffp.
Lot of marketing potential.
I don't care to fight for keeping a flag, it isn't that important to me. And I certainly can understand some portion of population would hate it. I just think that once the ball starts rolling it doesn't come to a stop. People act like the confederacy was nothing but racist, but in reality, almost the entire country was racist back then. If we are taking monuments down, lets begin with George Washington, he owned slaves, maybe we should tear down the Washington Monument. Ive seen articles stating that the confederacy were nothing more than people committing acts of treason. Just a century earlier, Americans committed treason against England. This whole movement is nothing more than people who are over sensitive and believe that if something is offensive to them, then no one should see it. We have so many more things to worry about than peoples feelings, China, ISIS, and North Korea are just a few things that come to mind, but countless people devote all of their time and energy to causes like this.
Personally, I don't care about the confederate battle flag. I don't care if it's removed from the state flag. I don't care if it's removed from government places. But where does it stop? It is a "PC war," no question about it. Nobody's rights are being trampled on because a flag is flying. It's simply because a group of people find it offensive. There's a whole bunch of things going on that I find offensive, but I don't go around sharing bruised sensibilities over it. If something offends you, you are free to ignore or avoid it, just as someone else is free to display it.
Digging up remains of confederate soldiers and renaming parks and streets is going too far. Whether they were on the right or the wrong side, there is historical significance to that stuff.
You're a smart guy. You know the difference in George Washington owning slaves and the CSA. You know the difference in treason towards England and treason towards the United States of America.
In reality, if reconstruction wasn't such a mess we'd universally hate the idea of the confederacy even as southerners. Us sticking up for something we would utterly be repulsed by if we were able to go back in time is as much of an example of us being ***** as anything I can recall in modern history.
Perception is reality. The American flag is inclusive, even if it shouldn't be.
No one is calling the rebel flag = ISIS, but that doesn't mean the average American shouldn't be having this conversation.
In reality, if reconstruction wasn't such a mess we'd universally hate the idea of the confederacy even as southerners. Us sticking up for something we would utterly be repulsed by if we were able to go back in time is as much of an example of us being ***** as anything I can recall in modern history.
Perception is reality. The American flag is inclusive, even if it shouldn't be.
No one is calling the rebel flag = ISIS, but that doesn't mean the average American shouldn't be having this conversation.
Better yet:
(1) Pick a solid blue background.
(2) Grab the state seal and slap it on.
(3) Write "MISSISSIPPI" below the seal.
Done.
(1) Pick a solid blue background.
(2) Grab the state seal and slap it on.
(3) Write "MISSISSIPPI" below the seal.
Done.
I don't understand the "offended" argument... It's not some nuance "PC issue," people literally flew that symbol in front of 1/3 of our state simply because of their skin color, and did so in a spirit of terror and supremacy. Those people have every damn right to be offended by that symbol. And to call them stupid and tell them their point is not valid further validates the notion that our state deserves to be last in everything. We can't stand up and make necessary changes for **** because our "turdishuns and herituge."
I'm not saying that we need to remove the flag from parks... Where it is 100% appropriate to fly it.. But for goodness sakes, take it off the damn state flag.
I'm not saying that we need to remove the flag from parks... Where it is 100% appropriate to fly it.. But for goodness sakes, take it off the damn state flag.
It's going to be changed..
You need to let it go, who is saying the confederacy never existed?
View attachment 2094
http://www.declaremississippi.com/
If our current flag offends part of our population or keeps business from MS, then it needs to be changed.
It belongs in a museum. I do not see a problem with confederate flags in Civil War commentaries or National Military Parks in the south.
It is part of our history and we should remember that, we should not fly it in the face of those whose family were salves under it.
"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister." Romans 14:13
You need to let it go, who is saying the confederacy never existed?
View attachment 2094
http://www.declaremississippi.com/
If our current flag offends part of our population or keeps business from MS, then it needs to be changed.
It belongs in a museum. I do not see a problem with confederate flags in Civil War commentaries or National Military Parks in the south.
It is part of our history and we should remember that, we should not fly it in the face of those whose family were salves under it.
"Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in the way of a brother or sister." Romans 14:13
My point is they are trying to erase a part of history as if it never existed. If no confederate flag (enemy) who did the Union fight. No confederacy why Emancipation proclamation. Theycant just just take down a part of history and pretend it didnt happen.
Like I said, I don't care about that flag. They can remove it if they want. But to make blanket statements like the flag was flown simply because of skin color, or in a spirit of terror and supremacy is ridiculous. It means a lot of things to a lot of people. There are people of all races lining up on both sides of the debate. The flag isn't racially sensitive...it's inflammatory comments like yours about the flag that make the issue racially sensitive. Are there idiots that fly it for the reasons you mention? Sure. There are idiots everywhere. But it is a PC issue regardless of what you say. We are here because of a horrific and unthinkable tragedy occurred where a white kid who embraced that flag shot up a black church, and it gave those offended by a flag, which had nothing to do with the tragedy, a platform to push change. It's totally a PC issue. They're removing symbols and references from Disneyworld, and banning the Dukes of Hazzard from television. The ridiculousness is off the charts. What's next? They are digging up remains of Nathan Bedford Forrest in Memphis at a park just because some folks have their panties in a bunch over it being there. Never mind that Tennessee state law bars such action. Never mind there was a federal law passed 50 years ago that recognizes confederate soldiers as US Veterans. The Memphis City Council is trampling on Tennessee State law just because they are offended over 200 year old bones buried at a historical site. They even changed the name of the park, because we can't have anything named "Confederate Park." Of course, the state won't stop them, because it's too politically dicey. No matter what side of the debate you stand on, if you're reasonable, you have to see the ridiculousness.
Meanwhile, it's war on cops in the streets. Civil unrest. The city is going bankrupt. Gang violence and gang attacks are occurring in grocery stores and malls. Yeah, sounds to me that we are focused on the right things.
Next, they will petition to have the greatest movie of all time, Animal House, to be pulled from rotation because Hoover had a confederate flag on his wall. Maybe that's what it will take to get the Six Pack enraged enough to take a stand. **
Meanwhile, it's war on cops in the streets. Civil unrest. The city is going bankrupt. Gang violence and gang attacks are occurring in grocery stores and malls. Yeah, sounds to me that we are focused on the right things.
Next, they will petition to have the greatest movie of all time, Animal House, to be pulled from rotation because Hoover had a confederate flag on his wall. Maybe that's what it will take to get the Six Pack enraged enough to take a stand. **
I can't believe you can't grasp that history would be preserved in museums. That flag was paraded around post civil war to instill fear in the black populace. anyone with a brain can see that. Do you think Ross Barnett was waving it at events to "preserve history"? Get 17ing real.
I'm offended! A blue background clearly references Ole Miss! **
In fact, in order to be fair, the colors Red, Blue, Light Blue, White, Maroon, Black, and Yellow must be avoided. Green is out as well, as it represents greed and Delta State. Purple is too gay, Pink is too feminine, and Brown is obviously offensive to Blacks, Hispanics, Hindus, certain Asians, and those who tan well.
Other than that you're good to go.
In fact, in order to be fair, the colors Red, Blue, Light Blue, White, Maroon, Black, and Yellow must be avoided. Green is out as well, as it represents greed and Delta State. Purple is too gay, Pink is too feminine, and Brown is obviously offensive to Blacks, Hispanics, Hindus, certain Asians, and those who tan well.
Other than that you're good to go.
Here's the funny thing, nobody in Mississippi is even offended by our state flag. It's PC police from outside of our state that are causing the shitstorm. Beginning with the media and ending with our disgrace of a President.
Now lock it up.
Only President in History who bitchslapped a bunch of rebellious traitors, because they were too lazy to pick their own cotton.
Nowhere did I say the flag only represents racial conflict, but to pretend people shouldn't be offended by it because "that's not what it stood for" is stupid, too. Look, there is a deep divide over it and my thoughts will not do anything to change yours. But the indisputable fact is there is a deep divide over it that's been around much longer than a few weeks ago when that asshat thought it was his divine duty to shoot up a church and waved that flag as he did so. That's the same attitude klansmen used in the sixties to terrorize African American citizens and kill people senselessly, all while making a mockery of the justice system.
I'll even offer an example... in the 1960's, there were 3 men shot and killed in Neshoba county by the klan. The man who pulled the trigger was on trial and his brother and other klansmen were photographed outside the meridian federal courthouse waving the stars and bars in support of the Klansmen on trial. The man who pulled the trigger, along with everyone else involved (including a sheriff) was aquitted of murder. There are many other pictures showing the same thing. Supporters of the klan and klansmen themselves waving the flag as killers were systematically acquitted by a justice system that wanted nothing less than white supremacy.
Is that the only thing the flag stands for? No, it's not. But let's quit pretending people shouldn't be highly offended by it or it's just some kind of "PC stunt."
ETA: put yourself in the shoes of the family of the men who were shot and killed after witnessing a 3 ring circus of a trial where all parties were found not guilty and let go to kill some more. Then walk out of the courthouse and see that flag flying high. It happened countless times in this state. That's the thing that stains out flag more than anything else, in my eyes. The sheer defiance of the state and public to put a stop to senseless violence and prejudice. I don't know about you but it makes me sick to think about.
I'll even offer an example... in the 1960's, there were 3 men shot and killed in Neshoba county by the klan. The man who pulled the trigger was on trial and his brother and other klansmen were photographed outside the meridian federal courthouse waving the stars and bars in support of the Klansmen on trial. The man who pulled the trigger, along with everyone else involved (including a sheriff) was aquitted of murder. There are many other pictures showing the same thing. Supporters of the klan and klansmen themselves waving the flag as killers were systematically acquitted by a justice system that wanted nothing less than white supremacy.
Is that the only thing the flag stands for? No, it's not. But let's quit pretending people shouldn't be highly offended by it or it's just some kind of "PC stunt."
ETA: put yourself in the shoes of the family of the men who were shot and killed after witnessing a 3 ring circus of a trial where all parties were found not guilty and let go to kill some more. Then walk out of the courthouse and see that flag flying high. It happened countless times in this state. That's the thing that stains out flag more than anything else, in my eyes. The sheer defiance of the state and public to put a stop to senseless violence and prejudice. I don't know about you but it makes me sick to think about.
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The funny thing to me are the people there weren't offended till they were told to be offended. The flag doesn't offend me at all, but I'm white bread and fairly insensitive. But I can certainly see where it COULD offend people. And I'll respect that. You just better reciprocate that respect when I get offended by your ****** gun control laws.
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