Eli vs Dak

[dotcomdawg]

Eli 2002 (Jr year) 279/481 3,401 yds, 7.1 yds per attempt, 21 tds, 15 ints, -120 yds rushing, 2 tds

Dak 2014 (Jr year) 244/396 3,499 yds, 8.7 yds per attempt, 27 tds, 11 ints, 986 yds rushing 15 tds

 

[was21]

Apples and oranges..two totally different styles

 

[thatsbaseball]

I not sure either one could have succeeded in the other`s offense

 

[57stratdawg]

We're going to see another large jump from Dak's jr to sr year as well.

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

For the most part you are correct, I'm positive Manning would not excell

in the current MSU O.

I'm not so certain Dak could not, now, run the O that Manning ran in.

 

[esplanade91]

Yall have lost your minds. I hate Eli because he went to UM and he's a douche, but I'm not going to compare him to Dak. Eli has 2 Super Bowl rings.

 

[thatsbaseball]

I personally was just comparing two college QB`s

 

[LawDawg97]

He was just comparing Junior years

Yall have lost your minds. I hate Eli because he went to UM and he's a douche, but I'm not going to compare him to Dak. Eli has 2 Super Bowl rings.

Maybe one day Dak will have 2 Super Bowl rings, but he hasn't had that chance yet. I don't see any posts saying Dak is currently superior. I appreciate the analysis of the 2 junior seasons side by side though.

 

[Drewbowski]

Proving it is harder to win the SEC West than a Super Bowl.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

We're going to see another large jump from Dak's jr to sr year as well.

1) I've heard the same about other State QB's entering their final campaign in Maroon & White.

2) The thread title had me half hoping for THE THUNDERDOME!*

 

[patdog]

Let's compare Dak's junior year to Eli's senior year then.

Eli (SR:

*2003

Mississippi

SEC

SR

QB

13

275

441

62.4

3600

8.2

8.5

29

10

148.1

<tbody>
</tbody>

Dak (JR)

*2014

Mississippi State

SEC

JR

QB

13

244

396

61.6

3449

8.7

8.8

27

11

151.7

<tbody>
</tbody>

 

[Dawg1976]

Agree. Perhaps the OP is only interested in comparing college stats, but it does seem silly when Eli has 2 super bowl rings. And as much as I love Dak, does anyone think Dak will be the number one NFL pick next year?

 

[karlchilders.sixpack]

And at the same time, trade Manning to Phil. Eagles

and he would be setting on the pine.

While Dak might be playing.

It's the system.

 

[esplanade91]

Obviously I love Dak too, but I just think it's absolutely unnecessary to compare Eli's stats with Dak's.

There's a reason why the list of the SEC's all time all purpose yards leaders are QB's from the last 10 seasons. We're comparing an 11 game schedule from 2002 to a 12 game schedule from a spread offense in 2014.

Who cares about Eli. This is just feeding into the little brother narrative.

 

[coach66]

Eli has played six weeks of well timed

Football and has two rings. Otherwise he pretty much sucks.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

This. Most overrated QB in the NFL - maybe ever.

It's funny - Tony Romo is superior to Eli in almost every measurable way, yet Romo is constantly **** on, and Eli gets hall of fame talk. Insanity what 2 superbowl rings do for a QB, no matter how bad you are most years, and even earlier in the damn playoffs one of those winning years.

 

[Dawg1976]

It would be great if Dak becomes part of a system like Phil. I can see him being successful there.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Whoa ..

Yall have lost your minds. I hate Eli because he went to UM and he's a douche, but I'm not going to compare him to Dak. Eli has 2 Super Bowl rings.

knew OM was giving out bowl 'loser' rings .. just had no idea they were handing out Super bowl rings. Who knew?

 

[BiscuitEater]

Obviously I love Dak too, but I just think it's absolutely unnecessary to compare Eli's stats with Dak's.

I think the point was/is .. Eli was in the Heisman discussion / race his SR year & Dak's JR stats were way better than Eli's JR stats .. we are damn lucky to have a QB with Dak's talent & experience coming back and leading our team this year.

We all know what Dak can do with his feet. Add in more experienced WRs, bigger threats in the slot position, & hopefully additional TE & RB targets .. our offense looks even better than last year's record breaking team.

 

[WayboDawg]

Proving it is harder to win the SEC West than a Super Bowl.

But Ole Miss won the SEC West in Eli's senior year ****

View attachment 2048

 

[WayboDawg]

Agree. Perhaps the OP is only interested in comparing college stats, but it does seem silly when Eli has 2 super bowl rings. And as much as I love Dak, does anyone think Dak will be the number one NFL pick next year?

He probably would have been 3 or 4 years ago when the dual threat QB was all the rage in the NFL with guys like Vick, Colin Kaepernick, and RGIII showing out. Now that people are beginning to see how easily these guys get hurt, I think the fad has passed. Too much money to be spending on a guy who is one hit to the knees from being worthless to your franchise. Not to mention how one dimensional these guys become when they rely too much on their feet instead of sitting in the pocket and giving their receivers a chance to get open. My favorite QB of all time Steve Young was a running QB for years until he got to San Francisco and figured out the recipe for a Hall of Fame career is to forsake your running ability and learn to hone your passing skills.

 

[Seinfeld]

Glad someone else has noticed. Aside from a couple magical mid-winter runs, he has been one of the most mediocre to downright bad QBs from the last decade. Last year was probably his best regular season since joining the NFL, and it was still only good enough for a middle of the pack NFL QB. If his last name wasn't Manning, I don't think he would have made it to his 5th NFL season before getting released

 

[patdog]

He's had a very average career. But, to his credit, he played great in those 2 postseasons.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Our 2002 team was crap.

I didn't realize it at the time, but I saw the 2002 Independence Bowl on TV a couple years back, and it was shocking to me.

I've never seen a college offense that predicated its entire success or failure on the QBs ability to make reads and make difficult throws as much as that one did. There was essentially zero running game. The OL was average to weak. It really made me feel bad for Eli having to carry that offense. That's also why his junior year was by far his worst year, numbers-wise, in college.

I'll also say that today's spread offenses are MUCH more QB numbers friendly than the pro style system Eli played in.

Example
Bo Wallace 2014: 229-381, 60.1%, 3194 yds, 8.4 ypa, 22 TD, 14 INT
Eli Manning 2002: 279-481, 58.0%, 3401 yds, 7.1 ypa, 21 TD, 15 INT

Was Bo Wallace a better QB than Eli?

Even Eli's senior season, his completion percentage was only 62.4%, and his YPA was only 8.2, with 29 TDs to 10 INTs, so still not much better than senior Bo Wallace. I would say that makes a pretty good case that spread systems tends to assist QB raw numbers, when compared to pro style systems.

For another example, go compare Tim Tebow's college numbers to Eli's. Which one was the better QB? Tebow won more because his supporting cast was MUCH better, and he put up better numbers because of that supporting cast and the type of system he ran, but was he better than Eli?

 

[esplanade91]

I think the point was/is .. Eli was in the Heisman discussion / race his SR year & Dak's JR stats were way better than Eli's JR stats .. we are damn lucky to have a QB with Dak's talent & experience coming back and leading our team this year.

We all know what Dak can do with his feet. Add in more experienced WRs, bigger threats in the slot position, & hopefully additional TE & RB targets .. our offense looks even better than last year's record breaking team.

Well while we're at it let's compare Anthony Dixon's senior year to Jim Brown's senior year and Malcolm Johnson's career statistics to Jimmy Graham's.

If you want to compare Dak's stats to Bo's, go ahead. That's relevant. 12 years, 2 different eras of football? No way. It's comparing for the sake of thinking you're one-upping your beloved rival.

Dak is on MSU's Mt. Rushmore (and is firmly planted in Heisman talks leading into his senior year), but Eli is/was better. Until we have a QB in the discussion for the #1 overall pick I think we need to simmer on the Eli trash talk.

Ole Miss can go to hell,btw.

 

[coach66]

Yes Nafoom, for the money he is paid

His career QBR of 89 sucks, slightly above average. With that said I respect Eli and his family as very good people, some of the best. I have just never felt is was close to Peyton.

 

[coach66]

Ok Jughead, I admit it Eli is

An average NFL qb.

 

[BiscuitEater]

NAFOOM ..

His career QBR of 89 sucks, slightly above average. With that said I respect Eli and his family as very good people, some of the best. I have just never felt is was close to Peyton.

Has the scoop .. You've been 'outed' as COACH34 .. nevermind the obvious 'small' age difference**

 

[Philly Dawg]

If constant discussions about the other team feeds the little brother narrative, then we have two little brothers and no big brother in this state.

 

[coach66]

Their obsession with C34 appears to be spilling over to me. I just said Eli was

average, I can't believe the hurt feelings and snarky comments*. I don't know if Dak will enjoy the success Eli has had but I do know he is a much better athlete and if surrounded with the right players and coaches he could have a good NFL career. I think the fact that this may happen really bothers them for some reason, so much hate.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

Yeah, it's intense. It's also weird how blind they are about Eli.

Because anyone that can accurately comment on his career is apparently suffering from some sort of MSU psychosis.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

I just think it's funny that anyone who even questions that Dak might actually be on par with the almighty Eli Manning as a college QB is an obsessed, delusional, little brother, cow farmer, etc.

 

[MaroonNation]

That's because Eli has daddy continuously marketing him and his brother. Romo hasn't had that kind of back room influence. Dak will not either.

 

[RebelBruiser]

I just think it's funny that anyone who even questions that Dak might actually be on par with the almighty Eli Manning as a college QB is an obsessed, delusional, little brother, cow farmer, etc.

I think the point is that if you're going to make that argument, stats are a weak measure when comparing from two different eras.

Saw this on another site. Here are the junior and senior years, combined, of two QBs:

QB1: 380-618 (61.5%), 4644 yards, 7.5 yards/att, 30 TDs, 16 INTs (1.88:1 ratio)
QB2: 512-818 (62.6%), 6540 yards, 8.0 yards/att, 40 TDs, 24 INTs (1.67:1 ratio)

Which one of those was a better college QB?

Just looking at the stats, you'd say it's close to a wash, possibly even favoring QB2.

QB1 is Tom Brady. QB2 is Bo Wallace.

Oh, and Bo had 554 rushing yards and 11 rushing TDs, compared to Brady's -150 rushing yards and 3 rushing TDs. Is Bo Wallace better than Tom Brady? Was he even a better college QB than Brady?

Point being, spread offenses make numbers look better for QBs than guys who played in pro style offenses 15-20 years ago.

It's the same reason you can't compare QB stats from today to QB stats from 50 years ago.

For his career, Archie Manning completed 52.8% of his passes for 4753 yards, 6.2 yards per attempt, with 31 TDs, and 40 INTs. Basically every QB today, even the bad ones, put up better numbers than that, because offenses are different.

Since we're on a Manning subject, Peyton Manning completed 63.9% of his passes for 3287 yards, 8.7 yards per attempt, with 20 TDs and 12 INTs as a junior.

His senior year, he only completed 60.2% of his passes for 3819 yards, 8.0 yards per attempt, and 36 TDs to 11 INTs. I would argue he was one of the greatest college QBs of all time, but since he played in a pro style offense nearly 20 years ago, his numbers are easily eclipsed by many of the spread QBs of today, guys who aren't nearly on his level.

Again, I'm not saying Eli's perfect or great. He's a plus NFL QB. You can't argue otherwise. Is he overpaid for being what he is? Possibly, but there is a reason he's still starting in the NFL, and it's because he's better than what most teams have at the position. Even last year, with a crappy team and weak OL, he was 15th in the NFL in Quarterback rating, and 7th in Total QBR.

All that said, Dak is a very good college QB, and he's good enough to be in pre-season Heisman discussions, possibly even to get to New York if things go right for your team this year, so it's worthwhile to talk about his legacy, but you have to realize that when you pull stats from different eras and different styles of offenses, you're not going to get an accurate comparison of QBs side by side. It doesn't work that way.

 

[RebelBruiser]

That's because Eli has daddy continuously marketing him and his brother. Romo hasn't had that kind of back room influence. Dak will not either.

That's laughable. Obviously you don't know much about Archie. He's as hands off with his sons as it gets.

Now the media may love the Mannings and may market them, but Archie isn't pulling any of those strings, and he wouldn't. It's not his nature.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Since you brought it up I would love to have seen Dixon play against the same defenses Brown

 

[coach66]

So hands off that he literally dictated Eli would play only for the Giants. Yea

he's hands off and has no media connections that he doesn't parlay which any smart person and good father would do the same. I'll say it again, Peyton is one of the best NFL Qb's of all time.
Archie on the right team would have been as well but Eli is an average QB in the NFL, most people see that. Doesn't make him a bad guy he just is what he is.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

Okay fine I won't use stats. I've watched Dak's entire college career- I've seen also almost all of Eli's college career. Both carried their teams to historic seasons and were by far the main cog in record setting offenses and were directly or indirectly responsible for the vast majority of success both offenses had... Although Eli did it his senior year and Dak has yet to play his. Both were the unquestioned leaders and heart and souls of the team. I also think Dak has done it against a significantly stronger SECW, and he still has a whole other season left still to play. Dak finished 8th in the Heisman voting as a junior and was considered the frontrunner midway through the season- something that Eli didn't even sniff until his senior year.

It makes absolutely no difference to me what Eli has done in the NFL because that is not pertinent to this discussion- not only are we talking strictly about who they were as college QBs, but Dak hasn't even had that opportunity yet.

So yes, even without stats I think it is a legitimately unbiased and rational statement to say that Dak has been every bit the COLLEGE QB that Eli was through his junior season- if anything he's been better to this point.

 

[Seinfeld]

Bruiser, I'm with you on the Archie argument, but calling the time period in which Eli played(12 years ago) a "different era" is a bit of a stretch. Were there less spread offenses being run at that time? Perhaps, but for me, playing the different era card in this case is a convenient excuse that makes up for Eli's utter lack of athleticism. He had no choice but to run a pro style offense and while that's not a knock on Eli, I also don't think that it can be held against Dak for simply being more versatile in terms of what plays he can run.

If your argument is that we can't look at stats and immediately come to the conclusion that Dak is the better college player, I 100% agree with you on that. On the other hand, if your claim is that it is impossible to even compare the two, I completely disagree. Spread offenses have been around for a long time. The difference between Dak and Eli, however, is that Dak is much more capable of running one.