They walk among us....

[engie]

Let me break it down for you once again after I already did once. I'll try to be even more elementary this time.
Tickets went on sale March 3, 2015.
We had sold "over 1000 grandstand seats" on May 12, 2015.
That is ten weeks to the day.
There are 5 business days per week.
That is 50 business days.
1000 seats sold in 50 business days is 20 seats per business day.
20 seats per business day for a 7000 seat venue takes 350 business days.
350 business days is 70 business weeks.
70 business weeks is a full sell out of a 7000 seat venue at the current pace on July 5, 2016.
The earliest possible date to break ground would be mid/late May 2016.

 

[LawDawg97]

To assure someone of something is to tell them positively or confidently

So interesting that you can "assure" me and that you resort to name calling. Do you know these people that are raising concerns? Is there a reason that you can't express your views as an opinion and not as an absolute? To me the renderings look like a concrete box. What do you see? I think it would be cool if the something from the past rigs could be on each box. But I certainly can't assure you that it would improve the atmosphere! No crystal ball at my house

to dispel any doubts they may have. I like to carry a positive attitude, especially about something that is so obviously positive for my University. But if a couple hundred of you want to go mourn and mope because a much nicer facility is taking the place of your usual hangout go ahead. I spent 1997 in LFL cheering our win over Washington in our Regional and it was a great time. But damn, things have to progress and move forward. Be glad you got to experience it while we had it.

You act like they are tearing it down to put in a parking lot. I don't know how you can look at the renderings and see a concrete box. That alone tells me you have blinders on.

But I'll own up to it if I'm wrong. If in 5 years it sucks to be in the outfield at DNF and people are yelling to bring your lovely trailer back out there, I tell you what. I'll buy you a coke.

 

[bellechamp]

Yes on the average as you say but misleading when your growth curve has flattened. Not thinking any marketing professional would use your straight line statistical analysis for projections for a project costing that much. There will be a spike for sure on July 30 cause that is when most will buy. I will be one of them. If the numbers aren't there and my deposit is a contribution to the bulldog club instead then I will be disappointed. Not that I contributed to MSU athletics, cause I love my dogs.....just wish that the division among fans could be replaced with folks attempting to understand each other. 1500 for 10 years is a awesome deal for a seat in a wonderful stadium.

 

[HD6]

I think we have discovered a new species of troll.

 

[patdog]

I've never forgiven them for taking Section B, Row 22, Seats 17-18 away from me. I 17ing love those seats. And I absolutely refuse to call them Section 02, Row 22, Seats 17-18. They have ruined football for me.

 

[RebelBruiser]

There is a point there with the tradition.

If and when you build that stadium, it would be an awesome stadium.

However, you would be sacrificing a big part of what makes your baseball experience unique.

I compare it to the Cubs. As a fan, I'm not sure quite how to feel about the big video boards and the massive changes to the bleachers and the elimination of a lot of the roof top seating.

Yes, it's better for the long-term, and it means more revenue and a more modernized experience, but it does take away some of what made a trip to Wrigley unique.

It can be hard to balance that. If I was in your shoes, I think I'd be for the expansion, but you definitely lose something with it, so I can't fault those who are resistant to it.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

I noticed Candyman announced his disapproval.

the comments, dear God. These are the worst kind of MSU fans. My kudos to those brave souls who dare to speak out against them.

https://www.facebook.com/HailStateB...6769366338242/917940174887820/?type=1&theater

.

 

[engie]

There is a point there with the tradition.

If and when you build that stadium, it would be an awesome stadium.

However, you would be sacrificing a big part of what makes your baseball experience unique.

I compare it to the Cubs. As a fan, I'm not sure quite how to feel about the big video boards and the massive changes to the bleachers and the elimination of a lot of the roof top seating.

Yes, it's better for the long-term, and it means more revenue and a more modernized experience, but it does take away some of what made a trip to Wrigley unique.

It can be hard to balance that. If I was in your shoes, I think I'd be for the expansion, but you definitely lose something with it, so I can't fault those who are resistant to it.

What are we losing exactly?

If rickety, dangerous seats are the true identity of our team and program and "what makes Dudy Noble special" -- then we are already dead in the water.

 

[RebelBruiser]

Yes, they're rickety and dangerous, but it's unique, so I understand people wanting to cling to it.

South Carolina and Arkansas both have awesome stadiums, but neither baseball experience has anything unique about it. Same for LSU really.

Again, I would ultimately fall on the side of doing the nice expansion, but I can understand how some cling to things that make an experience unique.

If the Red Sox were able to buy enough property and expand their stadium so that they could tear down the green monster, it would modernize their stadium and probably increase the revenue stream, but it would take something away too.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

There is a point there with the tradition.

If and when you build that stadium, it would be an awesome stadium.

However, you would be sacrificing a big part of what makes your baseball experience unique.

I compare it to the Cubs. As a fan, I'm not sure quite how to feel about the big video boards and the massive changes to the bleachers and the elimination of a lot of the roof top seating.

Yes, it's better for the long-term, and it means more revenue and a more modernized experience, but it does take away some of what made a trip to Wrigley unique.

It can be hard to balance that. If I was in your shoes, I think I'd be for the expansion, but you definitely lose something with it, so I can't fault those who are resistant to it.

This is not an "if" or "would be"- this is a when, and it's 100% going to happen.

What you're seeing is a very loud minority who feels they're entitled to something that never really belonged to them in the first place. 90% of MSU fans with half of a brain know that this will be an extremely positive thing and are totally behind it. A few of the complainers will actually be stubborn and not buy seats/lounges in the new park- then in a few years when they hear about how awesome the new digs are and how much more convenient it is, they will regret not buying into the idea at the time. It'll be their loss.

It's the same cycle when every team replaces a traditional, old park: 1. people freak out about losing traditions and threaten to stop buying tickets, 2. when the park is open they see that the same traditions are still at the new park but only made better by modern amenities, and 3. they shut up about all the imaginary problems with the new stadium and realize that it was really all for the best. We've seen this time and time again.

 

[LawDawg97]

You know what else would be unique?

Yes, they're rickety and dangerous, but it's unique, so I understand people wanting to cling to it.

Being the only guy on your street that uses a black and white TV and a typewriter. Are you still clinging to those? Because they were great to have at one time.

The LFL setup and the lofts behind it will still be different from anything at any other stadium. It's just going to be a new kind of different and for some reason that scares people.

 

[VegasDawg13]

It can be hard to balance that. If I was in your shoes, I think I'd be for the expansion, but you definitely lose something with it, so I can't fault those who are resistant to it.

Wrong. "Strickland ruined our tradition. He's got to go," and "Anyone who expresses any reservation at all about changing LFL is a mouth-breathing imbecile," are the only two options.

 

[Dawg1976]

Agree. There will still be a LFL, just modified. And as pointed out, there have been modifications over the years. Can't believe fans won't like the new stadium after it is completed.

 

[engie]

Yes, they're rickety and dangerous, but it's unique, so I understand people wanting to cling to it.

And what we are building isn't unique? What else is out there like it? What's the difference between rickety seats and plush concrete seats in the same spot serving the same purpose? I'm missing it...

South Carolina and Arkansas both have awesome stadiums, but neither baseball experience has anything unique about it. Same for LSU really.

Generic minor league stadiums without carry-in alcohol and tailgating outfields... None of which is being removed in our new stadium. Trustmark Park is nice too. But I wouldn't want it and it's rule structure as the home stadium for Mississippi State. And they actually serve alcohol there. If we did that -- a cookie cutter minor league park without alcohol and grills -- maybe we would be similar to Alex Box, Carolina Stadium, and Baum. But that isn't what we are doing.

Again, I would ultimately fall on the side of doing the nice expansion, but I can understand how some cling to things that make an experience unique.

This is my thing. The experience stays the same. The people stay the same. The spots stay the same. The ability to drink and grill stay the same. It's the same deal -- with more comfort. And it actually monetizes our baseball program in a way that allows us to actually have a realistic shot at sustaining elite. The Dudy Noble experience sucks on the average night for the average outsider when we're average. People remember it for the big games/weekends that happen a couple of times a year and the magic arrives. Not all the rest of the time that it's a miserable experience for a pretty high percentage of fans stuck in the worst seats in the SEC in those foul line bleachers while looking at an empty grandstand. There will still be NOTHING like it in the new yard -- which given the 360* concourse and the ability to see over the lounges, will probably actually have a higher SRO capacity.

If the Red Sox were able to buy enough property and expand their stadium so that they could tear down the green monster, it would modernize their stadium and probably increase the revenue stream, but it would take something away too.

Or they could just build seats on top of the green monster -- make a unique experience even more unique -- and monetize it that way. Which is exactly what they did. What these people are arguing is essentially that putting those seats on top of the green monster ruins it's place in baseball lore and killed the uniqueness of Fenway. It's not a similar example at all. If we pulled out the lounges and put basic bleachers or grandstands back there -- your example would be similar. Instead we are keeping the lounges, enhancing them with skybox apartments behind them, and must making it safer. While monetizing it.

You are arguing that what we are building is generic. I'm arguing that it's not only more unique than the current iteration of Dudy Noble -- but much more unique. Exclusive -- while actually being inclusive -- and actually being comfortable for everyone for a change. Who else has left field lofts? Who else has a field club? Who has loge? Who has both a separate club and skyboxes? Who has sectional LFLs like what we are building? Hell, we even managed to incorporate berm student outfield seating into the design, which while not truly unique is the single best thing about Swayze. We are taking one unique thing about Dudy Noble that can just as easily be seen as "backwards Mississippi personified" and making four or five pretty unique things that combine to put us on a level that it will take teams a decade plus to match/surpass. Just like it did when we built the joint the first time.

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

And what we are building isn't unique? What else is out there like it? What's the difference between rickety seats and plush concrete seats in the same spot serving the same purpose? I'm missing it...


Generic minor league stadiums without carry-in alcohol and tailgating outfields... None of which is being removed in our new stadium. Trustmark Park is nice too. But I wouldn't want it and it's rule structure as the home stadium for Mississippi State. And they actually serve alcohol there. If we did that -- a cookie cutter minor league park without alcohol and grills -- maybe we would be similar to Alex Box, Carolina Stadium, and Baum. But that isn't what we are doing.


This is my thing. The experience stays the same. The people stay the same. The spots stay the same. The ability to drink and grill stay the same. It's the same deal -- with more comfort. And it actually monetizes our baseball program in a way that allows us to actually have a realistic shot at sustaining elite. The Dudy Noble experience sucks on the average night for the average outsider when we're average. People remember it for the big games/weekends that happen a couple of times a year and the magic arrives. Not all the rest of the time that it's a miserable experience for a pretty high percentage of fans stuck in the worst seats in the SEC in those foul line bleachers while looking at an empty grandstand. There will still be NOTHING like it in the new yard -- which given the 360* concourse and the ability to see over the lounges, will probably actually have a higher SRO capacity.


Or they could just build seats on top of the green monster -- make a unique experience even more unique -- and monetize it that way. Which is exactly what they did. What these people are arguing is essentially that putting those seats on top of the green monster ruins it's place in baseball lore and killed the uniqueness of Fenway. It's not a similar example at all. If we pulled out the lounges and put basic bleachers or grandstands back there -- your example would be similar. Instead we are keeping the lounges, enhancing them with skybox apartments behind them, and must making it safer. While monetizing it.

You are arguing that what we are building is generic. I'm arguing that it's not only more unique than the current iteration of Dudy Noble -- but much more unique. Exclusive -- while actually being inclusive -- and actually being comfortable for everyone for a change. Who else has left field lofts? Who else has a field club? Who has loge? Who has both a separate club and skyboxes? Who has sectional LFLs like what we are building? Hell, we even managed to incorporate berm student outfield seating into the design, which while not truly unique is the single best thing about Swayze. We are taking one unique thing about Dudy Noble that can just as easily be seen as "backwards Mississippi personified" and making four or five pretty unique things that combine to put us on a level that it will take teams a decade plus to match/surpass. Just like it did when we built the joint the first time.

Amen. New DNF will be 5x as unique as old DNF. Nobody has loft apartments in the OF, nobody has anything like the lounges, nobody has loge seating in a college baseball stadium, nobody (that I know of) in college baseball has anything like the Backstop area, etc. It is on such a different level that it's not even funny- what's actually going to be funny is seeing all the people who are complaining right now shut up the second they walk into the new park.

 

[57stratdawg]

How are they dangerous if no one is getting hurt?

 

[engie]

Doesn't take but once to lose them forever. And it was just a matter of time. Not if. When. Can you honestly look at them and say that they are all totally safe to pack to the gills a couple of times a year and that nothing was ever going to happen? People can get hurt anywhere doing anything and sue someone for it, granted. And a pretty high percentage of those lounges were pretty dang safe. But it doesn't take but one person neglecting their plywood in the weather for one more year or for someone to hairline crack a 20 year old rusty weld towing it back into DNF to have a collapse in one of the ?86? spots and potentially end that tradition for us altogether.

 

[LawDawg97]

How are they dangerous if no one is getting hurt?

This isn't a serious question is it? You see dangerous conditions can exist prior to someone actually......oh hell nevermind.

 

[aTotal360]

Seems to be attracted to the old species.

 

[J-Dawg]

There is a point there with the tradition.

If and when you build that stadium, it would be an awesome stadium.

However, you would be sacrificing a big part of what makes your baseball experience unique.

I compare it to the Cubs. As a fan, I'm not sure quite how to feel about the big video boards and the massive changes to the bleachers and the elimination of a lot of the roof top seating.

Yes, it's better for the long-term, and it means more revenue and a more modernized experience, but it does take away some of what made a trip to Wrigley unique.

It can be hard to balance that. If I was in your shoes, I think I'd be for the expansion, but you definitely lose something with it, so I can't fault those who are resistant to it.

As if the ultra modern, luxury condos behind box after box of "LFL" seating won't be unique enough...... give me a break.

 

[57stratdawg]

If no one is getting hurt on them - they must be structurally sound.

Come to think of it, want to take a guess who built the only structure I can remember ever collapsing causing people to get hurt?

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Sad, Mad Troll??

Progress scares some folks.

I like the new stadium proposal because it allows everyone a chance at the atmosphere. I remember having a great time at DNF, but only got to be in LFL if I happened to have an invite. With this proposal everyone gets a chance to have a great spot at the ball park. Even if I made the trek from Texas with the crew, we would be able to get into a great seat and be in the experience.

Traditions are cool but sometimes they need to be expanded and updated to let everyone in the club that wants to be.

 

[engie]

You are normally a really good poster -- but you are being blinded by your own situation and desire on this topic. That you actually want people to get hurt before making a change makes it really hard to take your thoughts on the matter seriously. It doesn't take an engineering degree to see the level of danger that exists out there.

You are essentially saying that you would never shut down a bridge or road until they collapsed and killed someone. Forget the warning signs and just consider them safe until they prove they aren't.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

How are they dangerous if no one is getting hurt?

If I drive through my neighborhood at 80 mph but don't wreck or run over anybody, does that mean it wasn't dangerous?

Come on, if anyone could determine whether or not a structure is safe, it would be an engineering school. We don't have to assume its fine until someone gets hurt...

 

[57stratdawg]

I would assume a road or bridge would be inspected by a civil engineer to determine its structural integrity rather than just seeing a picture or walking by and saying "it looks rickety".

 

[RebelBruiser]

For the record, I just enjoy playing devil's advocate. I agree that the expansion will be impressive and a big improvement.

I just like to put myself in the shoes of the other argument and try to understand it, which I do to some extent.

 

[57stratdawg]

Maybe engie can speak better to this, but I don't there is any time frame on the Condo construction. The outfield will start after next season, the grandstands will start after the 2017 year.

The condos might happen - they might not. They might be something that happens 5 or 10 years after the grandstands are completed.

 

[MabenMaroon]

The TAMU bonfire was around for a lot longer than the LFL and it was always considered relatively safe. They had professional engineers design the damn thing and each year some of the most prominent construction and engineering firms in the state would lend their expertise, heavy equipment and other materials. During the construction each year there was a lot of hand labor that went into every bonfire that was built and of course there were plenty of broken hands, fingers, and toes. There were sprained ankles, sprained backs and blown out knees. They even had axe accidents and traffic accidents but the bonfire and its tired platforms were always considered safe and they had a very regimented and controlled system in place for the organization, mobilization and utilization of the labor. The failed bonfire stack that killed TAMU students was built and designed in the same manner that it had been being built for over thirty years prior to the one that collapsed.
It only takes one accident or mistake to cause grave injury or death, and when it does, it will taint and tarnish the tradition for a long, long time to come. Not to mention the emotional scarring it causes those who are either there, closely involved or related to those who are injured or killed. Just ask the folks at TAMU about this.
I for one, am extremely glad that the school and administration is moving in a new direction that will include and try to preserve some of the aspects of the LFL tradition but at the same time will greatly mitigate the chances of a catastrophe happening. Hail State! Go Dawgs!

 

[messageboardsuperhero]

If no one is getting hurt on them - they must be structurally sound.

Come to think of it, want to take a guess who built the only structure I can remember ever collapsing causing people to get hurt?

"We're making a fortune selling these bonds on subprime mortgages and none of them have gone bad so far- therefore they are all sound and will never go bad." Bear Stearns and Lehman Brothers circa 2006

Just because something bad hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it never will. How would you feel if one of the more unstable ones collapsed and costed the University a fortune and the tradition was gone forever? Or if a five year old was underneath it and got hurt or worse?

 

[ArcherSPS]

Yeah I'm not sure what we will cope with the guilt of disappointing Candy Man.***

 

[Tin Cup Cowboy]

There is a point there with the tradition.

Oh irony, sweet irony...

 

[bulldogcountry1]

Back in 1984, I'm sure there were people complaining about losing their 2' strips of pine planks in favor of a newfangled concrete structure with seats that have backs. Good thing we didn't listen to them, right?

I can understand the fear of change for those who have invested in their little piece of the current DNF, but the more whining and complaining I hear, the less sympathetic I have become. I have heard the opinions of about 10 different "lifetime" chairback holders in person, and they all have been negative. Most of them hardly ever attend, anyway. I don't personally know anyone with a lounge spot, but you don't have to look far to see how they feel about change, even though the current LFL is merely a shell of what it once was.

I really think two things are at play here. The main thing is that the lifetimers have been fed the "you helped build this stadium" line for 25 years, and most of them have an inflated sense of what they actually originally contributed (or what their parents contributed). It reminds me of what you see happen in church. People put something in the plate and suddenly think things should be run the way they want it. I seriously doubt there are more than a few who donated 6 figures or more back in '85, and the rest are much much less. They fail to see how much they got out of their investment over the last 25 years, and I just can't see a valid reason to complain going forward. Yes, they bought lifetime seats, and the life of the stadium is ending. Deal with it.

The second thing is that too many are just being cheap. They have been riding on the gravy train for over two decades and don't want to cough up the money like the rest of us.

We are going to lose something with the new stadium, but we are going to gain a lot more. The fans and the players are what has made DNF special all this time, not inanimate objects. There are plenty of fans out there who want to be a part of this, and if you can't accept the way things are headed, then it couldn't have been that special to you from the start.

 

[BiscuitEater]

For the Record ..

For the record, I just enjoy playing devil's advocate. I just like to put myself in the shoes of the other argument and try to understand it, which I do to some extent.

'Devil's advocate is correct and a better definition is actually a Bear Troll that likes to 'throw out pure crap arguments' to put state in bad light. Never have ANY evidence at all.

Like this gem on NAFOOM .. "They better hope "Court" has some of Balis's leftover roids laying around, or they won't see the same type of 6 month transformations they're used to getting."

Or this .."some of the blow ups they had under Balis were way too obvious. You can't get those just with diet, weights, and supplements, not in that short of a period. They were getting the type of results it usually takes 3-4 years to get, but they would get them in 6-9 months."

 

[esplanade91]

I'm not sure I understand what "unique" accomplishes. 95% of the annual attendance is MSU fans, and they probably aren't watching a ton of opposing teams from their stadiums. Any baseball stadium in Starkville is "unique" because it will be the only baseball stadium in Starkville.

I'm more worried about our fan experience than how much a visiting fan who will maybe watch one game at DNF in his lifetime thinks our stadium differs from other stadiums.

If any of you have been to the KS lounge in the last few years, you probably nearly fell off the tiny stairs or had your leg chopped off by stepping threw the rusted out floor underneath. Pay homage to the rigs, light them on fire, show up to the new park, have as much as fun as you would have minus the threat of sudden death, and quit complaining about "tradition."

 

[57stratdawg]

GET YOUR MONEY OUT OF BANKS! STOCK PILE UP ON CANNED GOODS! IT'S NOT A MATTER OF 'IF' BUT 'WHEN'.

 

[BiscuitEater]

Not flaming ..

How are they dangerous if no one is getting hurt?

But do recall a outfield deck collapsing .. thinking about ten years ago. Don't recall any serious injuries but do remember something along those lines.

 

[HD6]

So do you believe that if somebody went out and did a real safety inspection on those rigs, they'd all pass as is?

 

[champdawg.sixpack]

If you complain about people who buy chairbacks and dont show, just wait until the outfield is half empty for an weekend series. Its a bad idea. Too much. Base lines chairbacked to outfield and update press and concourse. Thats all we need. And playing devils advocate, some here have a vested intrest in supporting whatever the AD throws at us.

 

[HD6]

Don't get an Ole Miss fan going about tradition, you'll end up with a stick in your eye.

 

[57stratdawg]

I have no idea, but they've been injury free for 20+ years. They must be doing something right.