Evaluating John Cohen.....
- Thread starter War Machine Dawg
- Start date
The thing
that I find somewhat ridiculous about people speaking on his SEC record, is that they never relate it to other teams. That is, look where we finished in the toughest division in college baseball. All besides the 1st, 2nd, and this year, I believe we've finished in either 2nd or 3rd in the division. That's not too bad.
that I find somewhat ridiculous about people speaking on his SEC record, is that they never relate it to other teams. That is, look where we finished in the toughest division in college baseball. All besides the 1st, 2nd, and this year, I believe we've finished in either 2nd or 3rd in the division. That's not too bad.
The numbers bear out that hosting and specifically being a national seed gives you an outrageous advantage in postseason success. The "Cohen gets hot at the end" meme is a myth and even believing in it is trying to go against great odds.
SUSTAINED SUCCESS is what we want and that means winning a lot of games every year and hosting a ton. That leads to postseason success. The top 8 National Seeds get to Omaha more than the bottom 56.
again. The TOP EIGHT make it more than the BOTTOM FIFTY-SIX. We just came in last in our league. We are so far away from sustaining success it's not even funny.
78% of CWS participants are 1 seeds.
13% are 2 seeds.
7% are 3 seeds.
2% are 4 seeds.
Its more than just "getting in". Cohens mediocrity will lead to far less chances of success.
SUSTAINED SUCCESS is what we want and that means winning a lot of games every year and hosting a ton. That leads to postseason success. The top 8 National Seeds get to Omaha more than the bottom 56.
again. The TOP EIGHT make it more than the BOTTOM FIFTY-SIX. We just came in last in our league. We are so far away from sustaining success it's not even funny.
78% of CWS participants are 1 seeds.
13% are 2 seeds.
7% are 3 seeds.
2% are 4 seeds.
Its more than just "getting in". Cohens mediocrity will lead to far less chances of success.
Good stuff. I think next year basically makes or breaks Cohen. He's already fighting an uphill battle to some degree. People don't enjoy watching his small-ball approach and on top of that, he hasn't really put much together on the field except for 2013. I don't know what his record is against OM and LSU while at MSU, but I don't think it's great.
2016 has a chance to be different though. We should have some guys with power in the middle of the lineup. I really think Cohen needs to host a regional next year.
2015 MSU baseball feels a bit like 2013 MSU football.
2016 has a chance to be different though. We should have some guys with power in the middle of the lineup. I really think Cohen needs to host a regional next year.
2015 MSU baseball feels a bit like 2013 MSU football.
The myth is that John Cohen truly wants to do this at the expense of hosting a regional. It is a made-up mantra created by rationalizing fans.
Cohen has always wanted to win, and win now. Everything he does is catered to winning immediately.
Croom was the guy who talked about creating a system and that if it costs you "a win here, a win there, so be it".
Last edited:
Exactly. Several weeks ago I posted stats that show that in 3 of the last 4 years, Cohen's teams got hot in the second half of the SEC season because the SEC schedules were frontloaded and he was simply playing the bottom teams in the league in the 2nd half of the season (the exception being 2013, when the SEC schedule was tough from beginning to end). And, yes, Cohen has done a decent job of getting us to the tournament 4 out of the last 5 years. But he's only hosted a regional once, and he's never been a national seed. It's great that he's gotten us to a CWS and 2 super regionals, but if he ever wants to sustain that level of success, he needs to start hosting more regionals as #1 seed.
The goal of every regular season should be to host post season play. That's it. People say "our goal is get to Omaha". I think that's pointing the gun too far down range, IMO.
I agree. Getting to Omaha depends on just a few games in the postseason. Sometimes you're going to lose as the favorite (2003) and sometimes you're going to win as the underdog (2007 & 2011). But if you want to consistently get to Omaha, you have to host a lot of regionals. That is a fact. And we've hosted one in the last 12 years. That is pathetic and has to change.
Who is the baseball S & C coach? There is no excuse for this being a problem. The more I hear and read about all the problems with baseball, the more I lean to dropping the axe. If all of the rumors are fact, then that is a leadership problem. Once that is lost its almost impossible for that person to get control again.
Another title could have been: "Take him out! Leave him in!"
Good synopsis though. Nearly every game the announcers find it noteworthy to talk about about Cohen's unconventional style. That is fine if it works but the numbers do not lie. It has not and is not working. I really hope that the 2013 CWS run does not turn out to ultimately be a bad thing because it seems to be the one thing that would cause us to give much more slack than we should. I like JC, I appreciate what he has tried to do and I admire his playing days and he will always be a bulldog but he has not put us anywhere close to where we need to be as a program. Next season has to be an ultimatum but it must go farther than that. We must have no tolerance for anything resembling the debacle we saw this year for at least the next 4 or 5 years. I am rooting hard for a permanent upswing but I must confess my confidence is not high.
Good synopsis though. Nearly every game the announcers find it noteworthy to talk about about Cohen's unconventional style. That is fine if it works but the numbers do not lie. It has not and is not working. I really hope that the 2013 CWS run does not turn out to ultimately be a bad thing because it seems to be the one thing that would cause us to give much more slack than we should. I like JC, I appreciate what he has tried to do and I admire his playing days and he will always be a bulldog but he has not put us anywhere close to where we need to be as a program. Next season has to be an ultimatum but it must go farther than that. We must have no tolerance for anything resembling the debacle we saw this year for at least the next 4 or 5 years. I am rooting hard for a permanent upswing but I must confess my confidence is not high.
Last edited:
Just for some more perspective. There's not a lot of separation over the last five years in the West other than LSU. We're about 2 SEC wins a year away from being the second best team in the West and a little less than that away from being the worst. These are I guess overall SEC numbers, so it's possible that it's better or worse depending on draws from the east each year.
Yeah
this is true, as is we have finished 2nd or 3rd in all of those year, except for this year. A little perspective helps.
this is true, as is we have finished 2nd or 3rd in all of those year, except for this year. A little perspective helps.
Latest
-
01
Maroon and White Basketball
Xavier 81-63 Mississippi State: Distance shooting hurts Bulldogs in Greenbrier defeat
-
02
Maroon and White Football
Kickoff Time Change: Mississippi State vs. Auburn
-
03
Maroon and White Football
Mississippi State Keys to Victory vs. Auburn
-
04
Rivals Basketball Recruiting
4-star center Chris Brown commits to Mississippi State
-
05
Maroon and White Football
Mississippi State Week 11 Preview: Auburn Q and A