OT great quote from soviet spy on
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I miss the good ole days when we had a leader that the world feared and respecte
One has has to wonder when that will be the case again. No matter your politics it's impossible to argue the fact that RR was the right man for that point in history, much in the way Washington was, as was Lincoln, Teddy, and probably FDR and Truman. America is in dire need of another man of their mold. I have my opinions of who such.a man may be, but I'll keep that to myself for now.
One has has to wonder when that will be the case again. No matter your politics it's impossible to argue the fact that RR was the right man for that point in history, much in the way Washington was, as was Lincoln, Teddy, and probably FDR and Truman. America is in dire need of another man of their mold. I have my opinions of who such.a man may be, but I'll keep that to myself for now.
Apropos of this topic, I keep meaning to watch The Americans. I see it's available on Amazon Prime now.
PS: Your comment about the unsophisticated Russian spy effort also oddly reminds me of this guilty pleasure movie.
PPS: I like Reagan but GHW Bush spoke at my graduation so I think highly of him too.
PS: Your comment about the unsophisticated Russian spy effort also oddly reminds me of this guilty pleasure movie.
PPS: I like Reagan but GHW Bush spoke at my graduation so I think highly of him too.
Teddy was the most badass POTUS we've had in my opinion. "Speak softly, and carry a big stick." I'm learning a lot of interesting (i.e. shady) things about FDR in my current book. But, you're correct in that he was the right man for the job at the time, along with the others you mentioned. And the whole planet feared "Old Blood and Guts" Patton, including his own country.
George 41 was a patriot
It would take most men 3 lifetimes to put together his resume. "No new taxes" and then not standing by it even when he knew it would likely cost him the WH must have been tough.
It would take most men 3 lifetimes to put together his resume. "No new taxes" and then not standing by it even when he knew it would likely cost him the WH must have been tough.
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I think due to world war 2 history has painted FDR in a better light than he deserves. He's considered a great leader because he was in the right place at the right time. Fact is, Howdy Doody could've been president in 1941 and america still would've come together to join the allied powers and defeat the axis powers. FDR wasn't "feared and respected", as Germany had completely taken Europe minus the UK and Japan took a huge amount of the pacific and even bombed us on our doorstep. In an attempt to keep politics out of it, Truman and Teddy, sure. Maybe even Kennedy to an extent; the cuban missile crisis was probably as close to a nuclear war as we'll ever get.
Teddy was tuff but George Washington was the original badass
I don't remember detail for detail but sometime not long after his presidency a couple diplomats were visiting the UK. When one of the diplomats visited the outhouse, water closet, or whatever was standard for the time, he was taken back by a painting of Washington hanging on the wall. Bewildered, he asked his fellow diplomat what the deal was. He simply replied, "nothing makes an Englishman **** faster than the sight of George Washignton.
I don't remember detail for detail but sometime not long after his presidency a couple diplomats were visiting the UK. When one of the diplomats visited the outhouse, water closet, or whatever was standard for the time, he was taken back by a painting of Washington hanging on the wall. Bewildered, he asked his fellow diplomat what the deal was. He simply replied, "nothing makes an Englishman **** faster than the sight of George Washignton.
I'm reading a book on the construction of the Panama Canal right now. And yeah, Teddy was a badass. The Colombians were trying to dick around on the treaty that would allow the USA to construct the canal after France had tried and failed. So Teddy basically said, screw you, we're going to back a Panamanian revolution to throw your asses out and create a new country. The revolution succeeded with only 1 casualty and the Colombian soldiers got the hell out and went back home as fast as they could.
teddy didn't put up with any bs......when he wanted
to send the fleet on a world tour to show the flag and emphasize America's new world leadership position, congress wouldn't appropriate the money. so old teddy took money from the normal budget, sent them halfway around and told congress, "if you want them to come home, pay for it"......or basically that. my kind of guy.
to send the fleet on a world tour to show the flag and emphasize America's new world leadership position, congress wouldn't appropriate the money. so old teddy took money from the normal budget, sent them halfway around and told congress, "if you want them to come home, pay for it"......or basically that. my kind of guy.
'm a raging liberal. GHWB, on foreign policy, was brilliant at times
It's a shame that most people, even ones who were around at the time, don't realize how good he was during a pretty scary period in our history. He was the POTUS during the great upheaval of Eastern Europe, including the fall of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union (I can't tell you how many people in their 40s think all that happened under Reagan). That was a powderkeg waiting to blow, and he managed our involvement about as well as it could have been done. I didn't agree with many of his domestic policies, but I've always had a lot of respect for his professional, if a bit bureaucratic, approach to the job.
It's a shame that most people, even ones who were around at the time, don't realize how good he was during a pretty scary period in our history. He was the POTUS during the great upheaval of Eastern Europe, including the fall of the Berlin wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union (I can't tell you how many people in their 40s think all that happened under Reagan). That was a powderkeg waiting to blow, and he managed our involvement about as well as it could have been done. I didn't agree with many of his domestic policies, but I've always had a lot of respect for his professional, if a bit bureaucratic, approach to the job.
In global politics, just like in business, if you do the same thing you have always done, you will die.
It's a different world than 30+ years ago and it requires a different type of leader. You may not like our current one, cool, but I can't imagine Reagan in today's world with the current geopolitical issues. Good Lord, that'd be a mess.
It's a different world than 30+ years ago and it requires a different type of leader. You may not like our current one, cool, but I can't imagine Reagan in today's world with the current geopolitical issues. Good Lord, that'd be a mess.
Thanks to all who joined in on this discussion
One of my favorite non sports threads on SPS in years. Very few things outside of sports peaks my interest more than US History. For those interested during the college offseason we should consider maybe a monthly book discussion. Just a thought.
One of my favorite non sports threads on SPS in years. Very few things outside of sports peaks my interest more than US History. For those interested during the college offseason we should consider maybe a monthly book discussion. Just a thought.
Everyone has their right to who they think sucks, but in my personal opinion their hasn't been a bigger POS than LBJ. JFK and McNamara had constructed a plan to get the hell out of Vietnam, but LBJ wanted to make his stamp on history when he got the reigns.
Without Vietnam, or at least the majority of it, the world looks a lot different today. I don't know that there's been a worse presidential decision in modern history.
ETA: Sums up basically how I feel about politics. No one gets into it for unselfish reasons except a select few. I don't necessarily agree with RR's policies but I genuinely feel like him and Slick Willy are the only two in the last 35 years who entered into the race for unselfish reasons.
FDR? He was one of the worst Presidents of all time. You can blame a majority of our problems today on him.
Yea, you are correct. Though Reagan started the ball rolling to expose the Soviet Union well before GHWB (massive military buildups, policies, etc.), the coux that eventually dissolved the USSR happened well into Bush's tenure.
I know that this is still a little fresh to be considered "history," but three of the worst presidents of the past 100 years I consider are;
1. FDR - really because all the "New Deal" policies, even though at the time, we were still squarely on the heels of the depression. He gets a tip of the cap for managing WWII, though. D-Day likely would not have been a success if FDR wasn't president.
2. LBJ - Vietnam was a total cluster (My grandfather fought in Vietnam)
3. George W. Bush - I know this is not "history" as his legacy is still being carved, but he gets the blame for our involvement in Iraq, as well as some of his domestic policies leading to the housing crash of 2008. Anyone with a pulse could buy a house under his presidency and he encouraged it. There are other policies he supported that don't deserve to be brought up right now. He did lead us through sept 11, however.
I want to mention that I'm not in any way "dissing" the military or their service with my comments... I'm only adding to the discussion. I'm also not going to respond to ********.
I know that this is still a little fresh to be considered "history," but three of the worst presidents of the past 100 years I consider are;
1. FDR - really because all the "New Deal" policies, even though at the time, we were still squarely on the heels of the depression. He gets a tip of the cap for managing WWII, though. D-Day likely would not have been a success if FDR wasn't president.
2. LBJ - Vietnam was a total cluster (My grandfather fought in Vietnam)
3. George W. Bush - I know this is not "history" as his legacy is still being carved, but he gets the blame for our involvement in Iraq, as well as some of his domestic policies leading to the housing crash of 2008. Anyone with a pulse could buy a house under his presidency and he encouraged it. There are other policies he supported that don't deserve to be brought up right now. He did lead us through sept 11, however.
I want to mention that I'm not in any way "dissing" the military or their service with my comments... I'm only adding to the discussion. I'm also not going to respond to ********.
I have been waiting on pins and needles to start another book thread. I got some great recommendations the last time (around December), but wanted to wait until the baseball season was over (even though one could argue the baseball season was over a few months ago.)
I think FDR gets too much credit for some things and not enough for others. The problem with FDR's legacy is a lot of policies that were meant to be short term or initial startups have been extended and extended and extended and some of those and a lot of others haven't been tuned to reflect the shift in demographics or been modernized through technology since. As a general fan of universal healthcare, SS is a cautionary tale of what happens when a good idea is put into effect by beaurocrats.
His biggest accomplishment was keeping us out of WW2 until the last minute, and I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for that.
And I certainly don't want to come off as anti-military (GOD BLESS THE TROOPS 'MERICA) but my biggest criticism on Reagan was his insistence on dumping all of our money into military stockpiling. It's a part of why HW had to eventually raise taxes (which RR did himself, but somehow people like to skip over that).
There's so much government waste from both ends of the spectrum, but the one with the biggest price tag is military. No one wants to talk negatively about bills that go to building tanks (for example) because they'll be branded anti-American, but after our gazillion dollar contracts to build these things finish they end up sitting in a field in Arizona until they're decommissioned and scrapped for 1/100,000th of the initial price.
ETA: George was turrible, but he tried to modernize our social security program and he had the best immigration plan of any guy from either side. He'd probably be the greatest ever if he had managed to get those 2 through and not decided to finish what his daddy started.
His biggest accomplishment was keeping us out of WW2 until the last minute, and I don't think he gets nearly enough credit for that.
And I certainly don't want to come off as anti-military (GOD BLESS THE TROOPS 'MERICA) but my biggest criticism on Reagan was his insistence on dumping all of our money into military stockpiling. It's a part of why HW had to eventually raise taxes (which RR did himself, but somehow people like to skip over that).
There's so much government waste from both ends of the spectrum, but the one with the biggest price tag is military. No one wants to talk negatively about bills that go to building tanks (for example) because they'll be branded anti-American, but after our gazillion dollar contracts to build these things finish they end up sitting in a field in Arizona until they're decommissioned and scrapped for 1/100,000th of the initial price.
ETA: George was turrible, but he tried to modernize our social security program and he had the best immigration plan of any guy from either side. He'd probably be the greatest ever if he had managed to get those 2 through and not decided to finish what his daddy started.
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Some would disagree, Barney Frank and his ilk had plenty of blood on their hands
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM
http://georgewbush-whitehouse.archives.gov/news/releases/2008/10/20081009-10.html
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The Berlin Wall would not have fallen and communism might still reign in Russia
and China if Reagan hadn't spent that money. In retrospect it was brilliant and it also put us in a position to kick *** with our smart weapons in the Gulf Wars. Reagan's spending basically bankrupted the Soviet Union, their system couldn't keep up.
FDR deserves a great deal of credit as a leader who changed the mood of America. America was an isolationist country until be said enough is enough and we have nothing to fear but fear itself.
The Japanese awakened the "Sleeping Giant" and even Hitler commented it was the beginning of the end.
and China if Reagan hadn't spent that money. In retrospect it was brilliant and it also put us in a position to kick *** with our smart weapons in the Gulf Wars. Reagan's spending basically bankrupted the Soviet Union, their system couldn't keep up.
FDR deserves a great deal of credit as a leader who changed the mood of America. America was an isolationist country until be said enough is enough and we have nothing to fear but fear itself.
The Japanese awakened the "Sleeping Giant" and even Hitler commented it was the beginning of the end.
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I give FDR credit for putting Eisenhower squarely in charge of D-Day. Gen. Patton was the obvious choice by many (and by far the most experienced General at the time) and Churchill/FDR had Patton lead the deception effort in England (operation fortitude) instead if the actual invasion forces. That move took serious balls.
Definitely. Reagan called the USSR's military bluff, essentially and really got the ball rolling of the ultimate dissolvement of the USSR. His presidency also changed the way we view our military, both good and bad. It also is the reason our armed forces are so massive.
The Cold War is some scary ****, though. That was a high stakes game of chess and a wrong move would have all but ended the human race. Reagan should get a lot of the credit for putting the pressure on the Soviets. Our national budget took a toll, though.
The Cold War is some scary ****, though. That was a high stakes game of chess and a wrong move would have all but ended the human race. Reagan should get a lot of the credit for putting the pressure on the Soviets. Our national budget took a toll, though.
I'm not so sure Patton was the obvious choice. He wasn't real popular at the time, both within the Army and publicly. He was in a way being punished for the slapping incident and pulling his Colt .45 on soldiers suffering from fatigue in hospitals. But, you're correct that having him and his army very publicly stay in England helped mask the D-Day invasion. For, Hitler and the Germans saw him in Africa and Italy and feared him more than any other general.
That's not that big of a stretch. This got me thinking though. Maybe my next book should be a British/Montgomery perspective on things during that time (including Patton).
RR had help..........
in bankrupting the USSR. Do you remember the price of gasoline from around '85 to '90? It hovered around a dollar most of that period. Under a dollar quite often. Saudi Arabia saturated the market with oil. That hurt the Russians in a big way.
in bankrupting the USSR. Do you remember the price of gasoline from around '85 to '90? It hovered around a dollar most of that period. Under a dollar quite often. Saudi Arabia saturated the market with oil. That hurt the Russians in a big way.
This was the biggest reason Eisenhower got the nod for that position, and FDR made that call against some resistance. as you stated, the British and Canadian forces played just as vital a part of D-Day as American forces and Eisenhower was in charge of all of them.
Absolutely, it was much needed. My problem is with the inflated military spending conjoined with the idea that we can lower taxes. It's unrealistic. And a lot of people justify military spending and low taxes as pillars of Reagan's success, as if they'd work outside of the Cold War.
The one constant in all these great presidents is that they were dynamic. Reagan raised taxes. Bill cut a chunk of government spending. FDR was a cult of personalities in terms of party definitions.
The modern day approach to things is "this is how it's done and the only way it's to be done," and when a president has to face reality and do the opposite of what his ideal strategy might be (GHWB raising taxes, for example) he's as good as dead to those people who were so passionate to get him elected.
It's a reflection of society. People who disagreed with FDR wholeheartedly had his back then, scrapping metal, rationing... People don't like someone nowadays, sometimes for no reason, and definantly oppose any sort of progress. I'm not sure Reagan or the original George (OG) could prosper in this landscape.
The one constant in all these great presidents is that they were dynamic. Reagan raised taxes. Bill cut a chunk of government spending. FDR was a cult of personalities in terms of party definitions.
The modern day approach to things is "this is how it's done and the only way it's to be done," and when a president has to face reality and do the opposite of what his ideal strategy might be (GHWB raising taxes, for example) he's as good as dead to those people who were so passionate to get him elected.
It's a reflection of society. People who disagreed with FDR wholeheartedly had his back then, scrapping metal, rationing... People don't like someone nowadays, sometimes for no reason, and definantly oppose any sort of progress. I'm not sure Reagan or the original George (OG) could prosper in this landscape.
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I would have to rank the worst as Nixon, Hoover, Carter and Obama in that order. Nixon and Hoover are for obvious reasons. George W. Bush gets a thumbs down for Iraq for sure. FDR crafted the idea that government can cure all ills if it is big enough. LBJ was just not ready for the position.
I am most afraid that our next POTUS will top the list simply because of the way government and both sides of the isle do things now. It's a big **** sandwich and sooner or later we are all gonna have to take a big bite.
I am most afraid that our next POTUS will top the list simply because of the way government and both sides of the isle do things now. It's a big **** sandwich and sooner or later we are all gonna have to take a big bite.
Not only would Reagan and GHWB not prosper in this landscape...
They would have never been elected. Both would have told Grover Norquist to eat ****, and then they would have been labeled "not ideologically pure" (whatever that means) and probably a RINO. The fact is is that most presidents will do some good things and probably have some major screw ups. You just hope for a 70/30 split to the good. For every Watergate, there is an opening of trade with China.
As far as GHWB goes, I think he is a good man, and stood up for his principles even when they were not popular. But how he gets a pass for the run-up and resolution to Desert Storm, I'll never know. The Bush administration sat on its hands as Saddam massed his troops on the Kuwait border. They had plenty of advanced knowledge, and it was obvious it was about to go down. Still they did nothing. Saddam took this as tacit approval from his old buddies to go ahead and invade. When he did, the Bush administration was stunned. And everybody else was stunned that they were stunned. Then Saddam was stunned that we were pissed off about it. He just thought we were cool with it.
So then, we finally get a defensible chance to deploy all the cold-war weaponry we had stockpiled and effin went for it. Fine. And when Shwarzkopf and Colin Powell had the crappy Iraqi army in full retreat, and requested the go-ahead to finish the job, the Bush Administration called of the dogs. We had full support from the Shiites and the Kurds and much of the world to go after Saddam, and we pulled back. Then he tells the Shiites they should rise up, more than hinting that we had their backs, and when they predictably did, we didn't show up and Saddam slaughtered them.
Not his finest hour in my opinion.
They would have never been elected. Both would have told Grover Norquist to eat ****, and then they would have been labeled "not ideologically pure" (whatever that means) and probably a RINO. The fact is is that most presidents will do some good things and probably have some major screw ups. You just hope for a 70/30 split to the good. For every Watergate, there is an opening of trade with China.
As far as GHWB goes, I think he is a good man, and stood up for his principles even when they were not popular. But how he gets a pass for the run-up and resolution to Desert Storm, I'll never know. The Bush administration sat on its hands as Saddam massed his troops on the Kuwait border. They had plenty of advanced knowledge, and it was obvious it was about to go down. Still they did nothing. Saddam took this as tacit approval from his old buddies to go ahead and invade. When he did, the Bush administration was stunned. And everybody else was stunned that they were stunned. Then Saddam was stunned that we were pissed off about it. He just thought we were cool with it.
So then, we finally get a defensible chance to deploy all the cold-war weaponry we had stockpiled and effin went for it. Fine. And when Shwarzkopf and Colin Powell had the crappy Iraqi army in full retreat, and requested the go-ahead to finish the job, the Bush Administration called of the dogs. We had full support from the Shiites and the Kurds and much of the world to go after Saddam, and we pulled back. Then he tells the Shiites they should rise up, more than hinting that we had their backs, and when they predictably did, we didn't show up and Saddam slaughtered them.
Not his finest hour in my opinion.
I have no use for LBJ
Any president that takes a **** with the door open on a daily basis while dictating notes to female aids and pulls out his johnson while talking with staffers as a power trip is as unpresidential as it gets and makes LBJ an unroyal POS!
Any president that takes a **** with the door open on a daily basis while dictating notes to female aids and pulls out his johnson while talking with staffers as a power trip is as unpresidential as it gets and makes LBJ an unroyal POS!
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