We're certainly not seeing the wins (2-5 SEC vs. 2-5 and 3-4 the last 2 years). But I did a quick check and in Ray's 1st season the average score of our SEC games was 58.9 - 74.2. Last year it was 64.7 - 75.3. There's still more than half the season left, and we have some tough teams to play, but so far this year, the average score is 62.6 - 69.
Are we seeing improvement?
- Thread starter patdog
- Start date
I say no. We aren't a mentally strong team and we cannot adjust. We are fast in transition and ok on defense. our defense has gotten a little better over the years and we score a few more points a game, but the only way I've seen us win games is when we are hitting jump shots or if Gavin ware has a good matchup.
I think we're definitely seeing improvement. Over the last 5 games anyway. The question is -- are we seeing fast enough improvement?
We should be an NCAA team next year and anything less is a bust IMO... We'll be as experienced and senior-laden as anyone in the country. Zuppardo should be more than able to fill Roc's role, Tookie should more than fill Bloodman's, and everyone else should be coming back a year better and more experienced...
We should be an NCAA team next year and anything less is a bust IMO... We'll be as experienced and senior-laden as anyone in the country. Zuppardo should be more than able to fill Roc's role, Tookie should more than fill Bloodman's, and everyone else should be coming back a year better and more experienced...
The RPI would say that we are(12/13 - .4628, 13/14 - .4616, 14/15 - .4803) However, when your "improved" RPI is still only good for #200 in the country, that's nowhere near good enough in my mind. I still feel like we're 2-3 years away from being a truly competitive team, and that might be wishful thinking.
It's laughable to even suggest that we have a shot at the NCAA next year. We've still got a LONG way to go to even be a fringe NIT team.
I think if Sword and Ware were 100% healthy - we're a NIT team this year. UGA and OM are fringe NCAA teams and we've pretty much gone toe to toe with them.
Last night they said our RPI was in the 200s - there are definitely not 200 better teams than us.
Last night they said our RPI was in the 200s - there are definitely not 200 better teams than us.
If it's determined to be unattainable -- then we need to go a different direction. We'll be one of the most experienced teams in the country next year. With major talent upgrades in the positions that we lose guys.
We're not far, at all, from "NIT talent" right now. We had a terrible stretch that's going to haunt us -- but if you think we're really the 200th best team in the country right now then you haven't been watching the games.
Agree that there aren't 200 teams better than us at our best. But there are easily 250 teams better than us at our worst. There's still no excuse to lose those 3 games in December, even without Sword & Ware. BTW, for all those who were telling me that TCU was a "good loss" and laughing when I said to get back to me after they finished 6-12 or worse in the Big 12, they're currently 1-5 with an RPI of #129. Our best win is over #114 Vandy and we have 5 losses to 100+ teams, 3 to 200+ teams.
If Malik Newman signs with us, we might be an NCAA team next year. If not, the NIT will probably be our ceiling.
We have to stop going cold for those 5-8 minute stretches. I'm not sure what causes it, but seems like we are good for a 1-9 FG stretch each half.
If we keep playing like we've played since seemingly everyone got healthy, we're going to pick off a couple of decent wins. Woulda, coulda, shoulda had the last 2 -- and we'd be having a different discussion.
That said, I'm ready to see results in the win column. I expected this team to be an NIT team or close to it. It's underachieved drastically relative to those goals regardless of how much better it's playing at this snapshot in time.
That said, I'm ready to see results in the win column. I expected this team to be an NIT team or close to it. It's underachieved drastically relative to those goals regardless of how much better it's playing at this snapshot in time.
We need to make a run and we need to make it fast. We need to show recruits and our fanbase that we can win. No more excuses, we need W's and realized optimism going into next season. That's really what it comes down to. Ray is going to be here next year and I would really appreciate him and our basketball team to start getting in the NIT and pushing for NCAA by the end of next year.
You can still play that game all you want to. We haven't been notably outclassed by any of our past 5 SEC opponents, the 3 losses to teams which are all top 50 teams with a chance to play in March, 2 of which came in very tight games on the road.
We can't honestly have this discussion without also noting how much the SEC as a whole has improved this year(and thus the quality of these teams we're facing has gone up). 5 teams are currently pretty much tournament locks -- with OM and Tennessee knocking on the door for a chance at as many as 7.
Seems pretty simple to me that we have cold spells because we are a poor jump shooting team, there are spells when we are unable to get into transition, and we have difficulting breaking down a zone.
Here is our remaining schedule
<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">
</tbody>
We have 11 games left, and I want to be 6-5 in these last 11 games. You can laugh all you want, but that's the minimum of what I want as a fan. If we finish 3-8 then it's just a bad season. It really is.
| Sat, Jan 31 |
| 2:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Tue, Feb 3 | 7:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets | |
| Sat, Feb 7 |
| 4:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Tue, Feb 10 |
| 9:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Sat, Feb 14 |
| 4:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Thu, Feb 19 |
| 9:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Sat, Feb 21 |
| 4:00 PM ET Fox Sports Net
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Wed, Feb 25 |
| 7:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets |
| Sat, Feb 28 | 6:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets | |
| Wed, Mar 4 | 9:00 PM ET
| Conversation | Tickets | |
| Sat, Mar 7 |
| 6:30 PM ET
| Conversation |
<tbody style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px; border: 0px; outline: 0px; vertical-align: baseline; background: transparent;">
</tbody>
We have 11 games left, and I want to be 6-5 in these last 11 games. You can laugh all you want, but that's the minimum of what I want as a fan. If we finish 3-8 then it's just a bad season. It really is.
You're only fooling yourself if you do. You can make that game say just about anything you want it to. From "we should be 5 games better than we are" to "we're lucky we're not 5 games worse than we are." You can't just magically reverse all the close losses and ignore all the close wins.
What are we now, 9-11? Yes 6-5 over these games would be nice but it is not happening. We would literally have to win every single winnable game to achieve that. We are not beating Tennessee, Arkansas, Alabama on the road. Kentucky, ha. We have a 5% chance of beating Arkansas at home.
Maybe, but we're 4th in SEC games in 3pt %.
You can beat zone by dribble as well, but we're last in assist. Our PG play needs to improve.
You can beat zone by dribble as well, but we're last in assist. Our PG play needs to improve.
Where did I allegedly "make it anything different than it is"? I didn't ignore anything.
This thread is about improvement. Engie is pointing out that he sees improvement by taking playing A&M, OM, and UGA close (two on the road). Why are you bitching at him?
Please. This is SEC Basketball. we can go 6-5 with these remaining games if Ray can really get these guys to come together and play ball. 4-7 finish or worse then there is no optimism going into next season. I'm just not seeing that big of a talent gap from top to bottom in the SEC excluding UK of course
Because when you point out that the UM and UGA losses were close losses to decent teams, and ignore the fact that the 2 wins in that stretch, Vandy & Auburn were both close wins over terrible teams, you're intentionally spinning reality. I do think there's been some improvement, especially over December. But we've still got a long way to go to be a competitive team
Besides the shortfalls that have been discussed we are short on talent. Sword is a good player, IJ has improved, Black and Houston show some potential but there freshman, Daniels overrated, RJ you never know what you'll get from him, Ware is a second string center at best can't jump, rebounds fair, does have a soft shot from 10 feet but he will never dominate in the paint and Fred has regressed and Trivante his role is to come off the bench. So is Ray a good coach, hard to say he seems to make some adjustments, team plays pretty good defense but is offensively challenged. Now is that because of coaching or lack of talent, I believe it's the latter. Unless the team folds the rest of the year he in all likely hood will be back next year but if he falls short of making the NIT he's gone. Signing Malik will definitely save his job but just don't see that happening.
You see, there's improvement right there. Just last year those were 8-12 minute stretches.
Forget about outcomes - we've played 7 SEC basketball games in an improved league, and 5 of them were very competitive. That shows plenty of improvement for Ray and the boys.
I see us finishing 4-7 over our last 11.
LSU - L
@ Tenn - L
@ Ark - L
Bama - W
@ Missouri - L
OM - W
Ark - L
UK - L
@ USC - L
@ Vandy - W
Missouri - W
Something like that.
LSU - L
@ Tenn - L
@ Ark - L
Bama - W
@ Missouri - L
OM - W
Ark - L
UK - L
@ USC - L
@ Vandy - W
Missouri - W
Something like that.
Major? We lose Roq and Bloodman. Who is the major upgrade over Roq, which is not a high hurdle to clear? From what I've seen on the court this year, it's not Black or Fallou. Serviceable role players, but I don't see any of them posting even the modest numbers Roq has. I can't believe I'm even typing this because it makes Roq sound like an All American. If you're looking at Zuppardo, that's a guy who averaged < 2 ppg at Arkansas State his freshman year. Granted, he had decent JUCO numbers but that's JUCO, plus there's the little issue with his knee. Bloodman....well who couldn't replace Bloodman. Tookie won't have to show much to be better than Bloodman, but right now he's just a sub 6" high schooler who will have a lot to prove. Upgrade, yes, which speaks more to Bloodman's limited abilities than anything else.
We also bring in Weatherspoon. Unless he turns out to be Clarence instead of Quinndary, I don't look for him to be any bigger piece of the puzzle than Houston, Thomas, Daniels, or Sword. I didn't know this until I looked at his Scout profile, but guess what his weakness is according to them. Three point shooting. Just what we want in a 2 guard I suppose. Body by Ravern, shot by Sword.
We're MAYBE good enough to get in the picture for the NIT next year. But our talent level is not high enough to dream any higher than that. It's eventually going to be RR's undoing. Without a major upgrade in talent, he'll be gone no later than two years from now, possibly next year. He has to know he's running out of time and his excuses are wearing thin. I mean, how much longer are we going to hear about Sword's back? Either he's healthy enough to play or shut him down. But I get it. No need for Ray to declare him healthy and then continue to lose.
I agree Pat. If we played our conference schedule over again, we might be 3-4 again, but if we were it would be just as likely that we beat Tennessee and Georgia and lose to Auburn and Vandy as it would be that we repeat the Ws and Ls as they happened.
You sound like a Sylvester Croom optimist. Absolutely zero evidence to support it, but who cares, let's just throw out a projection - Rick Ray will get these guys to come together and play ball. Yeah right.
Not throwing out a projection, I'm claiming that we are capable of doing it. We probably won't but it's attainable.
Edit to add that my evidence is watching this team with my own eyes compete in games and covering spreads 4 out of the last 5 games (therefore beating expectations)
Edit to add that my evidence is watching this team with my own eyes compete in games and covering spreads 4 out of the last 5 games (therefore beating expectations)
Last edited:
Latest
-
01
Maroon and White Basketball
Xavier 81-63 Mississippi State: Distance shooting hurts Bulldogs in Greenbrier defeat
-
02
Maroon and White Football
Kickoff Time Change: Mississippi State vs. Auburn
-
03
Maroon and White Football
Mississippi State Keys to Victory vs. Auburn
-
04
Rivals Basketball Recruiting
4-star center Chris Brown commits to Mississippi State
-
05
Maroon and White Football
Mississippi State Week 11 Preview: Auburn Q and A