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Using ESPN System For Ranking Programs; Top NCAAT Programs 2016-21 (Don't Shoot Messenger)

D

dlh331

Heisman
Jan 4, 2003
28,712
22,611
113
Several years back, ESPN ranked the all time best programs using the following points being awarded for various season accomplishments. Hard to believe, but it appeared very fair. They awarded points for the entire season such as W/L pct, conference titles, etc. This is just a look at NCAAT success based on the following:

5 points for Sweet 16 loss
10 points for Elite 8 loss
15 points for Final 4 loss
20 points for Title game loss
25 points for NCAA Title

#1 Gonzaga 60 points
5 Sweet 16s
3 Elite 8s
2 Final 4s
2 Title Games

#2 Villanova 55 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
2 Final 4s
2 Titles

#3 UNC 50 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
2 Title games
1 Title

#4 Michigan 40 points
4 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title Game

#5 Virginia 35 points
2 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title

#5 Kansas 35 points
3 Sweet 16s
3 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#5 Oregon 35 points
4 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#8 Baylor 30 points
2 Sweet 16s
1 Elite 8
1 Final 4
1 Title

#8 Texas Tech 30 points
2 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title game

#8 Syracuse 30 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#11 Kentucky 25 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s

#11 Duke 25 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s

#13 Michigan State 15 points
1 Sweet 16
1 Elite 8
1 Final 4

No system is perfect. My biggest question mark is Gonzaga over Villanova, but have at it.
 
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M

Mojocat_rivals48469

Heisman
Jan 29, 2003
18,120
12,185
0
So, for a portion of one decade, just outside the top 10. Given what we did the first half of the decade, I have no complaints about that. If some of our stalwarts are right and Cal has lost his fastball - if this isn't a momentary blip but something lasting - we'll know soon enough, and I'll start complaining then.

There is one big failure on the part of that scoring system: you should get dinged for bad losses. #1 Virginia loses to a 16 seed, there's no impact to their score, and there certainly should be. As I've said, that's one point on which Calipari stands almost alone (he and Roy are the only two that come to mind) - you don't see Cal as a 2 losing to a 10, or whatever. Doing well in the tournament means advancing far - but it also means you didn't lose to someone far inferior. That ought to be reflected.
 
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J

Jamal Mercer

Heisman
Feb 7, 2008
10,805
23,537
0
Ugh....nobody has benefited more than Gonzaga as far as getting to play lower seeded teams in the tourney. 1-11 all time vs 1-3 seeds.

BUT, Kentucky can’t really complain as we had the easiest path Ive ever seen open up for us in ‘17, and blew it to K State.
 
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Cowtown Cat

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,306
55,331
100
What’s most relevant is that we won’t be allowed to win another title with Cal here. We better be 10-15 points better than the field if we want to even have a shot. At the end of the day, that’s the cold reality of it.
 
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C

catswin

Heisman
Jan 3, 2003
10,082
12,710
0
That is not a great ranking system. If you have a year that you win it all you also get credit for a Final 4, Elite 8 and Sweet 16 also.
 
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C

CincyCat1988

Redshirt
Apr 14, 2021
11
35
0
Jamal Mercer said:
Ugh....nobody has benefited more than Gonzaga as far as getting to play lower seeded teams in the tourney. 1-11 all time vs 1-3 seeds.

BUT, Kentucky can’t really complain as we had the easiest path Ive ever seen open up for us in ‘17, and blew it to K State.
Click to expand...
8-20. Karma - Players lying about their birthdays stealing cheesecakes the week of the regionals.
 
K

kyhankypanky

All-American
Mar 21, 2004
4,529
7,908
113
SpamburgerHamburger said:
Ya'll will pick any random stat to support your misery and go nuts. Go outside or something.
Click to expand...
I think all reasonable people can agree this isn’t some random stat. Or if you indeed aren’t interested in NCAA tournament success, perhaps you can admit that you’re the unreasonable one or at least disinterested. The rest of us are playing for real buddy.
 
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seccats04

seccats04

Heisman
Dec 6, 2004
14,581
23,592
113
dlh331 said:
NCAAT records 2016-21
Gonzaga 17-5
Villanova 16-3
UNC 14-4
Michigan 13-5
Kansas 12-5
Virginia 10-4
Oregon 10-4
Baylor 9-4
Kentucky 9-4
Duke 9-4
MSU 6-5
Click to expand...
I think that clearly shows OAD was the way to go 2009-15. Now, not so much. Team cohesion appears to be more important now which means we're probably screwed. We're not getting the difference making freshmen anymore and the developmental guys won't stick around.
 
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Cowtown Cat

Cowtown Cat

Heisman
Aug 23, 2015
24,306
55,331
100
kl40504 said:
What is most relevant is that you will be complaining no matter what happens.
Click to expand...
Even more relevant than that is that you’re a bag that offers nothing than this phrase to any conversation. I notice you didn’t say I was wrong. I’m not wrong. I’m 100% correct and any Kentucky fan knows that I am. Not a Cal fan, a Kentucky fan. There’s a difference.
 
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D

dlh331

Heisman
Jan 4, 2003
28,712
22,611
113
the nail at the foul line said:
Somebody needs to change the scoring system because Villanova should be over Gonzaga. Two titles is bigger than two runner ups. I don't care what you did the other years.
Click to expand...

That is a fair argument, IMO. The problem with that is UConn won 2 titles during Cal’s first 6 seasons, but was awful the other 4 years. Do we rank them over UK?
 
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CB3UK

CB3UK

Hall of Famer
Apr 15, 2012
64,625
108,146
78
Mojocat said:
So, for a portion of one decade, just outside the top 10. Given what we did the first half of the decade, I have no complaints about that. If some of our stalwarts are right and Cal has lost his fastball - if this isn't a momentary blip but something lasting - we'll know soon enough, and I'll start complaining then.

There is one big failure on the part of that scoring system: you should get dinged for bad losses. #1 Virginia loses to a 16 seed, there's no impact to their score, and there certainly should be. As I've said, that's one point on which Calipari stands almost alone (he and Roy are the only two that come to mind) - you don't see Cal as a 2 losing to a 10, or whatever. Doing well in the tournament means advancing far - but it also means you didn't lose to someone far inferior. That ought to be reflected.
Click to expand...
That's true enough. Who and how you lose are pretty important in shaping a fan bases opinion. Look no further than Auburn or UNC for us. The K State and Indiana losses. Etc.

UK should make the Sweet 16 every year. #1 class ad nauseum, losing the first 2 rounds just not OK. Seeding clearly plays a huge factor in winning NCAAT, but don't tell that to the folks who sweep the Richmonds and Evansvilles under the rug in November.
 
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Son_Of_Saul

Son_Of_Saul

Hall of Famer
Dec 7, 2007
45,815
101,515
113
Mojocat said:
So, for a portion of one decade, just outside the top 10. Given what we did the first half of the decade, I have no complaints about that. If some of our stalwarts are right and Cal has lost his fastball - if this isn't a momentary blip but something lasting - we'll know soon enough, and I'll start complaining then.

There is one big failure on the part of that scoring system: you should get dinged for bad losses. #1 Virginia loses to a 16 seed, there's no impact to their score, and there certainly should be. As I've said, that's one point on which Calipari stands almost alone (he and Roy are the only two that come to mind) - you don't see Cal as a 2 losing to a 10, or whatever. Doing well in the tournament means advancing far - but it also means you didn't lose to someone far inferior. That ought to be reflected.
Click to expand...
Should you likewise get dinged for seasons when you fail to win 10 games?
 
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R

Rideordiewildcat

Heisman
Jan 30, 2018
16,155
24,636
0
jjrussell said:
The last 5 years is a weird start year to go off of???
What would be weird is cherry picking years when your great grandpa followed the cats.
Click to expand...
SUre 20 post guy, whatever you and your troll account say. Who wouldn't trust a guy who joined a decade ago and has posted a whole 20 times. You are either a troll or so out of touch what's up? Talk about picking and choosing your spots LMFAO.
 
K

kl40504_rivals

Heisman
Oct 5, 2018
15,258
11,184
0
seccats04 said:
And you'll be defending Cal no matter what happens.
Click to expand...
I am defending UK and Cal is our coach and has done nothing to not defend him. Some on here are big Pitino fans and that is a coach that has done something to criticize him for but some think he is a better coach than Cal after Cal beat him like a drum while he was at Louisville.
 
C

CincyCat1988

Redshirt
Apr 14, 2021
11
35
0
kl40504 said:
I am defending UK and Cal is our coach and has done nothing to not defend him. Some on here are big Pitino fans and that is a coach that has done something to criticize him for but some think he is a better coach than Cal after Cal beat him like a drum while he was at Louisville.
Click to expand...
Dude, going 9-16 is almost as bad as committing rape. What is wrong with you?
 
K

kl40504_rivals

Heisman
Oct 5, 2018
15,258
11,184
0
Cowtown Cat said:
Even more relevant than that is that you’re a bag that offers nothing than this phrase to any conversation. I notice you didn’t say I was wrong. I’m not wrong. I’m 100% correct and any Kentucky fan knows that I am. Not a Cal fan, a Kentucky fan. There’s a difference.
Click to expand...
You are wrong. How is that? But that is nothing new because you are wrong 90% of the time.
 
John Henry

John Henry

Hall of Famer
Aug 18, 2007
35,574
172,795
113
CincyCat1988 said:
No complaints? I’m ready to start looting stores and throwing Molotov cocktails.
Click to expand...
It may be all we have left. Support the movement

 
O

OmahaCats

All-Conference
Apr 10, 2020
2,209
2,740
0
TOMCATS1990 said:
Dook and KY both sub par. CAL needs to fix that ASAP.
Click to expand...
Being that Kentucky is around the 10th best in the country since Cal’s golden years, really says a lot about how great Cals golden years were. Obviously most progress would kill for our success since 2016. But it has grown to be a bit subpar
 
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C

cats#1again

All-Conference
Nov 27, 2011
8,011
4,587
0
dlh331 said:
Several years back, ESPN ranked the all time best programs using the following points being awarded for various season accomplishments. Hard to believe, but it appeared very fair. They awarded points for the entire season such as W/L pct, conference titles, etc. This is just a look at NCAAT success based on the following:

5 points for Sweet 16 loss
10 points for Elite 8 loss
15 points for Final 4 loss
20 points for Title game loss
25 points for NCAA Title

#1 Gonzaga 60 points
5 Sweet 16s
3 Elite 8s
2 Final 4s
2 Title Games

#2 Villanova 55 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
2 Final 4s
2 Titles

#3 UNC 50 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
2 Title games
1 Title

#4 Michigan 40 points
4 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title Game

#5 Virginia 35 points
2 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title

#5 Kansas 35 points
3 Sweet 16s
3 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#5 Oregon 35 points
4 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#8 Baylor 30 points
2 Sweet 16s
1 Elite 8
1 Final 4
1 Title

#8 Texas Tech 30 points
2 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4
1 Title game

#8 Syracuse 30 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s
1 Final 4

#11 Kentucky 25 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s

#11 Duke 25 points
3 Sweet 16s
2 Elite 8s

#13 Michigan State 15 points
1 Sweet 16
1 Elite 8
1 Final 4

No system is perfect. My biggest question mark is Gonzaga over Villanova, but have at it.
Click to expand...
Villanova is a joke.
3 seasons out of the past 11 in which they made it to sweet 16.
They had 2 really good teams . Not a top 7 program
 
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