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Baylor would have won last season

BlueVelvetFog

BlueVelvetFog

Heisman
Apr 12, 2016
14,646
20,359
78
gwjenning said:
I think they had won 23 in a row when Covid canceled the season. I believe they would have won the NCAAT last season as well.
Self and Kansas would have choked. Self is lucky he got to play Cal to win his lone NC. And Cal is lucky he got to play Self to win his lone NC.
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Let’s make it interesting. I’ll bet you they wouldn’t have won it last year. Any takers?
 
G

gwjenning

All-American
Mar 6, 2017
3,735
7,670
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Woodrow_CaII_1998 said:
Lol, Gonzaga wasn’t really that good. Playing a bunch of ****** teams all year just inflated their record. They almost got dropped by an 11 seed in the F4. Also, how common is is for an 11 seed to make the F4? I would say that’s a pretty big underdog and aberration.

Yes! I would literally say the same thing.

Again, this season will always have an asterisks next to it, and for good reason.
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An 11 seed has made it to the Final Four 4 other times. Once being in 1986 when 11 seed LSU beat us and we were a one seed. The last time 2018. UCLA was playing good basketball. Juzang lead the NCAAT in scoring.
As a UK fan you should know a red hot player can carry you pretty far. Kemba Walker and Shabazz Napier say hello!
Gonzaga beat good teams to start the season. It actually hurts them playing in a weak conference. They were a good team. Baylor was just a really good team!
 
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C

Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,715
0
Woodrow_CaII_1998 said:
First 2 questions have already been answered for you. See previous posts.

Okay, you are forgiven.

Baylor, your season wasn’t the same as others so therefore we do not consider your title the same. It’s still a hell of an accomplishment and you were likely the best team all year, but you got to play less games and had several games cancelled due to COVID. You also got to play your entire tournament in a single region/city. So it’s just not quite the same as what other teams who have won it had to accomplish.

See how easy that was?

It’s not the same, That was my point! See you are starting to get it now. You can’t count seasons the same that have uncontrollable differences and impacts.

Also, for like the 9th time, just because you don’t understand that every school, region, state and conference had different COVID protocols and criteria, doesn’t mean they were all the same or equal. It’s very easy to identify that they weren’t.

It equates very easily for anyone with basic logic. They just deserve an asterisks for being a COVID season.
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Disagree. They won the title. They were better than everyone else. DOn't care the circumstances. All the teams played under the same rules.
You can place whatever you want on it. Doesn't matter.
It's a weak premise and one that only those that want to make it seem less than others use it.
 
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B

BluePhil

All-Conference
Jan 28, 2008
2,481
1,116
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I think if Gonzaga had pulled off the undefeated season then their championship would have never been mentioned without it being mentioned it was a COVID year.

With Baylor winning I think COVID will drop by the wayside in mentions of their championship.
 
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KneeBurns

Senior
Mar 18, 2006
2,052
516
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I would go with the team who ended up #1 in every poll last year. And every computer ranking too.
 
A

akaukswoosh

Hall of Famer
Jan 14, 2006
82,532
127,082
93
Baylor started strong then tailed off some late in the season. I thought y the end of the season UK had as good a chance as anybody other than KU to make the FF.
 
K

KYCAT78

All-American
May 24, 2006
7,858
6,073
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IL Wildcat said:
You realize you're talking about 2 of the winningest coaches in the last 20 years, right? You may not like either of them, but they've won a few games for some reason. I just find your attempt to slam them both for beating each other in title games a bit humorous. They both won titles. That's elite company.
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Hell a monkey could have coached the talent that Cal has had at UK and beat Cal's won/loss record.
 
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revcort

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
KYCAT78 said:
Hell a monkey could have coached the talent that Cal has had at UK and beat Cal's won/loss record.
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Thats a foolish and ridiculous statement, first of all. Even if you think he's not a good prep coach or bench coach, he also recruited that talent. Being a head coach is a package deal. Cal is a hall of fame coach not only because of his in game coaching but because he has the entire package. That's why he's been the perfect fit for this program.

So, if you are looking for a head coach, what qualities does that person need?

Recruiter
Motivator
Preparation
Leader of young men
Bench coach (adjustments)

If I'm ranking Cal's attributes...
1. Recruiter
1a. Motivator
3. Preparation
4. Leader of young men
5. Bench coach

He's not as good a bench coach as some others. But he has made up for his bench coaching with his other abilities.
 
K

KYCAT78

All-American
May 24, 2006
7,858
6,073
0
IL Wildcat said:
Thats a foolish and ridiculous statement, first of all. Even if you think he's not a good prep coach or bench coach, he also recruited that talent. Being a head coach is a package deal. Cal is a hall of fame coach not only because of his in game coaching but because he has the entire package. That's why he's been the perfect fit for this program.

So, if you are looking for a head coach, what qualities does that person need?

Recruiter
Motivator
Preparation
Leader of young men
Bench coach (adjustments)

If I'm ranking Cal's attributes...
1. Recruiter
1a. Motivator
3. Preparation
4. Leader of young men
5. Bench coach

He's not as good a bench coach as some others. But he has made up for his bench coaching with his other abilities.
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Yea and the last five years he has a losing record against top 20 teams. If that is the bar you set for Kentucky then he is your man. Get your head out of his arse, he is a snake oil salesman who cannot adapt to the changing game.
 
revcort

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
KYCAT78 said:
Yea and the last five years he has a losing record against top 20 teams. If that is the bar you set for Kentucky then he is your man. Get your head out of his arse, he is a snake oil salesman who cannot adapt to the changing game.
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And you didn't argue with a single thing I said- didn't refute one single point. That's usually the way it goes when you're arguing that a hall of fame coach is actually a terrible coach. Good luck making that argument and making it stick. Ad hominem attacks (head up his arse and snake oil salesman) don't actually win a debate, either. Those are logical fallacies. Shall we have an actual conversation?
 
K

KYCAT78

All-American
May 24, 2006
7,858
6,073
0
IL Wildcat said:
And you didn't argue with a single thing I said- didn't refute one single point. That's usually the way it goes when you're arguing that a hall of fame coach is actually a terrible coach. Good luck making that argument and making it stick. Ad hominem attacks (head up his arse and snake oil salesman) don't actually win a debate, either. Those are logical fallacies. Shall we have an actual conversation?
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Recruiter, his best players have been from the transfer portal and any player he recruited that showed promise left for other programs. As a recruiter he has become average at best.

Motivator, if you call constantly yelling motivation then he is great at it.

Preparation, his preparation must not be to outstanding since he has a losing record against top 20 competition the last 5 years and is 1-4 against Duke, UNC and Kansas.

Leader of young men, not hard to lead when you are pushing them to the NBA whether they are ready or not and joins them in kneeling. Only shows leadership to 5 stars and not anyone else which is why they leave.

Coach, cannot coach a lick, best examples UConn championship game, Wisconsin semi final, Kansas State, last Indiana game. Man cannot win without superior talent.
 
revcort

revcort

Heisman
Feb 20, 2003
32,522
30,904
113
KYCAT78 said:
Recruiter, his best players have been from the transfer portal and any player he recruited that showed promise left for other programs. As a recruiter he has become average at best.

Motivator, if you call constantly yelling motivation then he is great at it.

Preparation, his preparation must not be to outstanding since he has a losing record against top 20 competition the last 5 years and is 1-4 against Duke, UNC and Kansas.

Leader of young men, not hard to lead when you are pushing them to the NBA whether they are ready or not and joins them in kneeling. Only shows leadership to 5 stars and not anyone else which is why they leave.

Coach, cannot coach a lick, best examples UConn championship game, Wisconsin semi final, Kansas State, last Indiana game. Man cannot win without superior talent.
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And yet, somehow he's become a hall of fame coach. Does that make sense to you? Are the people who vote for those things idiots? Maybe they should contact you before they vote?

Seriously though, his recruiting has not been as good as it was from 2009-2015, that is true. But there are multiple reasons that is true which are not his fault. The pay for play scandal with Adidas schools is a big issue. And we know it has happened with Nike schools as well, they just didn't get caught. Coaches have stooped to some pretty low levels to out-recruit Cal and UK. It has been long suspected that Zion Williamson was bought and paid for by Duke. And of course we know that has gone on at other schools.

Preparation is a tricky thing to measure at times. Most of the games you're mentioning there happen early in the season and Cal is almost always breaking in a new team at that point. It's hard to condemn his ability to prepare if he hasn't had the time to prepare, and that was especially true this season.

I'm not going to address the kneeling issue, because I agree with you completely on it. Beyond that, leadership is much more than just sending them to the NBA. You can see that UK players have done well in their communities. Cal is a big reason for that. He takes time every season to do community projects with these players and encourages them not to make everything about themselves all the time. He wants them to learn to think of others and their needs. That is good leadership.
 
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