OK you Bennys - question

[fredmanthecatfan]

First. Positionless basketball is a dumb idea. Now if you have players who can effectively play more than one position, that’s great, but they really need to play their position.
It all starts with the pg. Must have great handles. Must be a great passer Must be an adequate shooter but a great free throw shooter. Must be a lock down on the ball defender. Quickness to penetrate the lane is a huge plus. Must also have good instincts. Must also be a leader on the court.
Shooting guard. It says it in the name. Only you want him to be a “making guard”.
Yes he has to have good handles to help with ball handling duties and to take to the rack. He also needs to be a good passer, but he has to be the guy that opposing teams fear when he touches the ball.
SF Like a Swiss Army knife. He can shoot, he can handle the rock. He can fly in for a jam. He can bang inside a bit. Grab boards. Start and finish a fast break.
PF. Defense and rebounding. Post ups and mid range jump shots. If he’s capable from beyond the arc, then all the better, but not at the expense other skills
C. Rim protector. Rebounder. Multiple legit post moves. Good vision and ability to pass out of a double team. Being able to step out and knock down a three is a nice bonus, but that’s not his primary game.
You need all 5 of these guys on the floor. You need then well spaced and in purposeful motion.

 

[kl40504_rivals]

First. Positionless basketball is a dumb idea. Now if you have players who can effectively play more than one position, that’s great, but they really need to play their position.
It all starts with the pg. Must have great handles. Must be a great passer Must be an adequate shooter but a great free throw shooter. Must be a lock down on the ball defender. Quickness to penetrate the lane is a huge plus. Must also have good instincts. Must also be a leader on the court.
Shooting guard. It says it in the name. Only you want him to be a “making guard”.
Yes he has to have good handles to help with ball handling duties and to take to the rack. He also needs to be a good passer, but he has to be the guy that opposing teams fear when he touches the ball.
SF Like a Swiss Army knife. He can shoot, he can handle the rock. He can fly in for a jam. He can bang inside a bit. Grab boards. Start and finish a fast break.
PF. Defense and rebounding. Post ups and mid range jump shots. If he’s capable from beyond the arc, then all the better, but not at the expense other skills
C. Rim protector. Rebounder. Multiple legit post moves. Good vision and ability to pass out of a double team. Being able to step out and knock down a three is a nice bonus, but that’s not his primary game.
You need all 5 of these guys on the floor. You need then well spaced and in purposeful motion.

What church league did you coach?

 

[Wildcats1st]

First. Positionless basketball is a dumb idea. Now if you have players who can effectively play more than one position, that’s great, but they really need to play their position.
It all starts with the pg. Must have great handles. Must be a great passer Must be an adequate shooter but a great free throw shooter. Must be a lock down on the ball defender. Quickness to penetrate the lane is a huge plus. Must also have good instincts. Must also be a leader on the court.
Shooting guard. It says it in the name. Only you want him to be a “making guard”.
Yes he has to have good handles to help with ball handling duties and to take to the rack. He also needs to be a good passer, but he has to be the guy that opposing teams fear when he touches the ball.
SF Like a Swiss Army knife. He can shoot, he can handle the rock. He can fly in for a jam. He can bang inside a bit. Grab boards. Start and finish a fast break.
PF. Defense and rebounding. Post ups and mid range jump shots. If he’s capable from beyond the arc, then all the better, but not at the expense other skills
C. Rim protector. Rebounder. Multiple legit post moves. Good vision and ability to pass out of a double team. Being able to step out and knock down a three is a nice bonus, but that’s not his primary game.
You need all 5 of these guys on the floor. You need then well spaced and in purposeful motion.

you’re right players need defined roles. You can’t just roll out the balls to positionless players or no one will know where they should be and when to be there.

As for the ddmo. It’s not an offense. It’s situational rather than constant. it’s not something you can do against stingy defenses especially zonal defenses we aren’t prepared against because we don’t work zone in practices. Those clips in that montage are against mostly weak competition and it looks no different than when good teams with great pgs break down their opponent off the dribble. You could comb through po dunk st highlights for several years and develop the same montage and call it ddmo.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Everything you mentioned has been already mentioned on this board the last couple weeks, good job on copy and paste

What a weak *** response. Why even ask the question if you’re gonna come back with some BS like that?! What offense would YOU have ran this past season, since Cal clearly couldn’t figure it out?! Let’s hear it, Basketball Jones.

 

[jrm693]

He's really never run a DDMO since he's been at UK. He's run a variant of it a few times or in some offensive sets, but he's never run it the way his last couple Memphis teams ran it. Truth be told, those Memphis teams didn't have a traditional center and he lacked the personnel to run anything. The DDMO is perfect for a team with multiple guards or small forwards who can handle the ball very well and finish well in traffic. They ate our lunch in the Maui invitational one year (2006) running that. They drove it down our throats again and again and scored 80 on one of Tubby's better teams.

To answer the original question, I think the traditional offense, with a power forward and center clogging the lane is what folks believe doesn't work. And there is no question, NBA offenses (and multiple teams in college- like Alabama and Arkansas) have gone to more of a 4 around 1 or just more of an open floor style of offense where you may have one big man inside and everyone cutting and moving, trying to create open looks from 3pt range first, open lanes to the basket, and back door cuts for lobs and dunks.

My opinion is this: Cal will likely make some changes to the offense this season, but I think ultimately it will depend on how the roster ends up rounding out. So, we've got Tshiebwe who is gonna likely start. He's more a back to the basket inside banger- a traditional 4 or 5. Who else will we have? If Jackson comes back, what will we do? (I'm not holding my breath waiting for him to come back) He would definitely need to play big minutes. That would be 2 big men down low. Kellan Grady coming on board is HUGE for the prospect of running a different offense. He can score on all 3 levels. He can handle the ball. He scores off screens, he scores on spot-ups, he scores off pick and roll. We have some other guys who might do well with more of an open floor kind of offense.

Bottom line though: I expect Cal to make changes to the offense but ultimately it will depend on his personnel.

Your bottom line quote is the key to the whole thing in my way of thinking. I am not posting this as a bash on Cal because that is not the theme of this thread. His teams have became a series of brand new parts every year as 5-6 leave every year, much like the show that used to air "Junkyard wars" where different groups were given a bunch of scraps and told "Go build something" every year Cal has to take what he has and go build something and most of the time they start out slow and click by end of season, but there is no nucleus left over to build around for the next season. I still think losing some key coaches Strickland, Antiqua, and especially Payne who usually smiled and calmed the players down when the came to the bench has really hurt Cal and the program.
The teams that really flourished were led just as great football teams by a great QB John Wall, Brandon Knight, Tyler Ulis(who Cal pretty much just sat back and let run the team) DeAaron Fox those guys could "Go make a Play".
To attempt to answer the original question, this past season was partially difficult because you had a extremely young point guard that was thrust into the lions den who should have been playing HS ball, but I would have let Mintz run the show, spread the floor, gave Allen the green light and let Boston and others came along at their own pace, and yes I would have played some zone to help Allen and some of the others have some help on defense. I believe that would have opened up Jackson for some lob dunks, and Sarr who was weak as pond water let him shoot from perimeter, keep them close and maybe they end of 16-9 instead of vice versa nothing like continually losing to demoralize a group.

 

[BigBlueFan19]

What a weak *** response. Why even ask the question if you’re gonna come back with some BS like that?! What offense would YOU have ran this past season, since Cal clearly couldn’t figure it out?! Let’s hear it, Basketball Jones.

I’m so glad you asked!

I personally would have ran a 1-3-1 offense, I think that offense fits our team this past season the best. It’s a simple but effective offense to attack a man to man and 2-3 defenses.

 

[nickhorvathsuxazz]

What church league did you coach?

This reply stinks...but it does come from an a$$hole, so...

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I’m so glad you asked!

I personally would have ran a 1-3-1 offense, I think that offense fits our team this past season the best. It’s a simple but effective offense to attack a man to man and 2-3 defenses.

Fair enough. LOL

 

[kl40504_rivals]

I’m so glad you asked!

I personally would have ran a 1-3-1 offense, I think that offense fits our team this past season the best. It’s a simple but effective offense to attack a man to man and 2-3 defenses.

A 1-3-1 offense requires a real good, quick point guard that can penetrate and also hit the three. That offense would not have been a good offense for UK.

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

How do you explain his success at UMass and Memphis? I know this has become a common theme here, kind of an accepted "group think" kind of idea, but I think it's overblown. In order to win a game, your team's players have to play better than the opponent. He took a team with Josh Harrelson starting at center to the Final Four. Skill is a bigger issue than talent, in my opinion. Cal has often had talented athletes who lacked skill. That has been his Achilles at UK.

I am pretty sure that Cal did not run the DD at UMass and didn't adopt it at Memphis as his primary offense until he got Derrick Rose as his point guard.

Cal was simply putting the ball in his best players hands to break down a defense, read what is available, and make the right decision on whether to drive, pull up and shoot, alley oop to a big on the block, or kick out for an open 3.

It really does take an upper level PG to run this offense and he has to have at least one big in the dunker position, and one or two good 3 point shooters available for kickout 3 point shots.

If the team does not have all of these pieces, defenses only have to clog the middle and stop the PG from driving, with no shooters on the wings to loosen up the middle, and no dominant big man to rebound missed shots.

The DD starts with the PG. Cal has been unable to get the right pieces to run this offense for quite a while now.

If you don't have the players to run the DD, than as a coach, you should adapt your offense to fit the players you do have.

That is what a large segment of the Basketball Bennies (like myself) are having heartburn from watching Cal's teams struggle until February before he admits he doesn't have the right pieces and needs to adjust.

 

[cathouse_rivals216755]

I’m so glad you asked!

I personally would have ran a 1-3-1 offense, I think that offense fits our team this past season the best. It’s a simple but effective offense to attack a man to man and 2-3 defenses.

Interesting choice considering the pieces that we had on this team. Care to elaborate on who would be filling the positions on the 1-3-1 and their roles in that "simple but effective" offense?

 

[revcort]

I am pretty sure that Cal did not run the DD at UMass and didn't adopt it at Memphis as his primary offense until he got Derrick Rose as his point guard.

Cal was simply putting the ball in his best players hands to break down a defense, read what is available, and make the right decision on whether to drive, pull up and shoot, alley oop to a big on the block, or kick out for an open 3.

It really does take an upper level PG to run this offense and he has to have at least one big in the dunker position, and one or two good 3 point shooters available for kickout 3 point shots.

If the team does not have all of these pieces, defenses only have to clog the middle and stop the PG from driving, with no shooters on the wings to loosen up the middle, and no dominant big man to rebound missed shots.

The DD starts with the PG. Cal has been unable to get the right pieces to run this offense for quite a while now.

If you don't have the players to run the DD, than as a coach, you should adapt your offense to fit the players you do have.

That is what a large segment of the Basketball Bennies (like myself) are having heartburn from watching Cal's teams struggle until February before he admits he doesn't have the right pieces and needs to adjust.

I'm sure you're right about the dribble drive. Cal didn't run until Memphis for the last couple seasons. And you're right about the personnel required. Those wing shooters also need to be able to handle well and drive to the basket and finish. An ideal 4 man is what we would call a stretch 4 in today's terms. He needs to be able to make a 3 (at least a threat to make it) and also drive the ball. If you have 4 players who can all drive and finish, all at least a threat to make a 3, and all good to great ball handlers, that offense will drive teams nuts. That 5th guy just needs to be able to dunk and rebound and stay out of the lane until the shot goes up.

I was very frustrated this season as well, and in previous seasons. The early season offense is often ragged because we are often breaking in multiple new starters. If we're breaking in a new point guard, it's especially ragged. If that guy turns out to be not a good fit, not very quick, or not much of a playmaker, you're in trouble. And if those guys on the wing can't make a shot, either, well, you end up 9-16 and sitting home come March. That can't happen again.