An Olive Branch...

[revcort]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

 

[mcwildcats04]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

Well said IL. BTW, kind of nice having IL go out early isn't it? I'm in IL as well so didn't want them to win it all and never hear the end of it. Haha

 

[revcort]

Well said IL. BTW, kind of nice having IL go out early isn't it? I'm in IL as well so didn't want them to win it all and never hear the end of it. Haha

Isn't that the truth? Ha! That's exactly what it would have been. Between my team sucking this season and IL being pretty good, the college hoops season has been miserable. I hate it for my Illinois supporting friends, but I'm not upset. But seriously, here in Southern IL where I live, the Illini don't get a huge amount of attention. Folks in this area support UK more than IL. And the rest support SIU- but the Salukis have been awful for many years now. If UK could get their act together, the support here would boom.

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

No offense but you’ve been a pretty harsh critic of those critical of John Calipari. I’m not sure what this thread does exactly? All of these topics were covered in the other thread where you were upset/ insulting other members. They are also all covered in a slew of other threads already.

Yes, we all agree that we want Kentucky basketball to be successful but, as many have stated a plethora of times with facts, numbers and examples the program is on a downward trajectory and Calipari is showing absolutely no signs of adapting or changing. For some reason tho, those who defend Calipari so staunchly seem to take others opinions very very personally.

I hope like hell that John Calipari can get UK back to the promised land but his entire model is incredibly broken, he is no longer getting the elites and he is simply unable to retain solid veterans.

 

[revcort]

No offense but you’ve been a pretty harsh critic of those critical of John Calipari. I’m not sure what this thread does exactly? All of these topics were covered in the other thread where you were upset/ insulting other members. They are also all covered in a slew of other threads already.

Yes, we all agree that we want Kentucky basketball to be successful but, as many have stated a plethora of times with facts, numbers and examples the program is on a downward trajectory and Calipari is showing absolutely no signs of adapting or changing. For some reason tho, those who defend Calipari so staunchly seem to take others opinions very very personally.

I hope like hell that John Calipari can get UK back to the promised land but his entire model is incredibly broken, he is no longer getting the elites and he is simply unable to retain solid veterans.

Not offended. Have a good day.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

So much of our problem this season was the coach not playing the proper personnel because of stubbornness or promises or whatever.
Not necessarily anything to do with one and done

 

[mcwildcats04]

Isn't that the truth? Ha! That's exactly what it would have been. Between my team sucking this season and IL being pretty good, the college hoops season has been miserable. I hate it for my Illinois supporting friends, but I'm not upset. But seriously, here in Southern IL where I live, the Illini don't get a huge amount of attention. Folks in this area support UK more than IL. And the rest support SIU- but the Salukis have been awful for many years now. If UK could get their act together, the support here would boom.

Yeah, I'm closer to Chicago and around a TON of IL fans. So, I am definitely okay with their loss.

 

[Yardeth]

I’m all for backing Cal but I’m a UK fan first not a player fan first. I think he can turn it around but he has said many things that have bothered people for him to get back to where he was 6 years ago

 

[struggler]

No offense but you’ve been a pretty harsh critic of those critical of John Calipari. I’m not sure what this thread does exactly? All of these topics were covered in the other thread where you were upset/ insulting other members. They are also all covered in a slew of other threads already.

Yes, we all agree that we want Kentucky basketball to be successful but, as many have stated a plethora of times with facts, numbers and examples the program is on a downward trajectory and Calipari is showing absolutely no signs of adapting or changing. For some reason tho, those who defend Calipari so staunchly seem to take others opinions very very personally.

I hope like hell that John Calipari can get UK back to the promised land but his entire model is incredibly broken, he is no longer getting the elites and he is simply unable to retain solid veterans.

And.... sorry but a good portion of the roster is already gone... so. If we lose all of Mintz, Toppin and Brooks - well. Grateful for the guys that are coming back - but all are relatively unproven sans Allen if he can stay on the floor.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

Some players should have been on the bench more. Some players should have been on the floor more. Some players were playing in the wrong position on the floor.

 

[kb22stang]

Some players should have been on the bench more. Some players should have been on the floor more. Some players were playing in the wrong position on the floor.

And you know this for a fact how?

 

[MakinMusic_rivals]

I’m interested in what I believe to be the best interests of the Kentucky Basketball program. I also know these types of issues are never as simple as many fans believe. My current opinion and has been for the last few months is it’s best to allow Calipari an opportunity to fix the problems. Calipari staying on is our best shot at getting back quickly. I would say the same thing regardless of the coach, if the situation were the same. It’s tough for some fans to swallow but the best thing for our beloved program is to get behind the coaching staff and the players for next season. After next season, we reassess.

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

And you know this for a fact how?

I don’t even know if you’re being serious

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

Well, 4 players are already gone from this horrible team. Not seeing anything thing changing regrading that. Some are saying Jackson should but I don't see it. WCS stayed 3 years and Jackson is no better than him imo.
Yet here we set today with 4 players gone and likely more to come. Sarr very likely gone. That would be 5. I think UK onky had 11 scholarship players (I might be wrong on that) so that's almost half.
No guarantee Mintz returns either. Not seeing the roster retention.
Askew, Ware, Allen are back. No word yet on Brooks. So it looks pretty bleak again.
Coming in is Oscar, Collins, Hickman, and Hopkins. That gets UK to 7 without knowing about Brooks. No word on Toppin either.
I don't see any changing in the way things are being done.

 

[fisherscatfan_rivals101526]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

Even if I did want Cal gone, the reality is it is just too expensive. Here is where I am ignorant though. Does Cal have TOTAL CONTROL of the program? By that, can Mitch dictate who the paid assistant coaches are? Can he fire them? What would Cal's reaction to that be? It could get really ugly.

But watching the Kansas beat down last night, they talked about the USC coach and it was reported as him saying having top assistants are the key for any coach. Along with Cal's sticking to his players based on ratings versus performance, his instance on hiring mediocre assistants because of relationships has led to this debacle of 20-21. Mitch needs to mandate coaching changes with the assistants but Cal may have the right in his contract to say who the assistants are regardless of what Mitch wants?

 

[yabbadabbadoo_rivals213851]

We really need to retain Toppin.
Mintz would be big and Jackson would be grand. Doubtful on him though.

 

[jameslee32]

 

[CELTICAT]

And you know this for a fact how?

Sarr just shot 46% on the season from 3, which is one of the best single season percentages we've ever had. It's tied for 9th all time, and for his career he ends as the 3rd best three point shooter in history. However, he didn't even attempt a 3 pointer until the 5th game of the season, and didn't get multiple attempts until the 8th game, which snapped a 6 game losing streak.

That's to say nothing of Allen riding the pine while BJ Boston put up the worst shooting percentages in school history. That's not hyperbole either. Boston was sub 35% shooting and sub 20% on 3 pointers until about halfway through SEC play, making him EASILY the worst shooter for a big minutes player ever.

So yeah, wrong players playing and players playing in the wrong way was a huge problem for this team. Not sure how that's even debatable.

 

[docholiday51]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

Well said, I think there is more that most of us agree on than we disagree on. There is a need for change that only Cal can bring about, I hope he is serious. We all want the program to thrive, we have the facilities, we have the fan base and we have the basketball history. When he got here I remember Cal saying something along the lines of sitting in the chair and having an obligation to maintain what had been built before and passing it on to the next coach that sits in the chair. He would do well to remember his remarks and live up to them.

 

[TankedCat]

I don't think he has a choice but I am not personally thrilled with Cal using the transfer portal as a solution to his roster turnover. Its a patch to a problem that will be presented as a solution, and people will say Cal is ahead of the curve again when the reality is he didn't have a choice. It was sink or swim time for him.

It still gives Cal the flexibility of filling the roster with OADs because he'll have little expectation that a transfer player will stick around any length of time which still supports his end goal of bringing in players short term to UK in the hopes they are so talented they can win a national championship (does he really hope that? its a reasonable question to ask at this point) before he shows them the revolving door that has been installed at Wildcat Lodge.

Secondly, while again, I see the value of poaching good players, even prompting them indirectly into entering the transfer portal with an idea of coming to UK, it will just create the havoc in other programs that we face regularly under Cal

None of it is good for college basketball and it leads to more fan apathy about college basketball in general. Look at what is about to happen to UNC. Roy Williams efforts will be to populate other teams with talented players he invested in.

The difference is I think Roy actually wants his players to stay , while Cal is either indifferent or relishes the upside of replacing this guy with someone better (except that rarely happens now)

While I recognize I am just a fan, I am angry that Calipari has let his ego and his personal agenda trash our program. And there is no other explanation to it. If the basketball bennies were saying this 2 years ago, then there is no way a < insert all of Cal accomplishments we're reminded of here daily> didn't see it coming.

And worse, he doubled down this year during the season, openly antagonizing the fans about playing Allen and now believes that 7 minutes of BS post last game of the season talk is going to ice over his decision to invest in Boston at the expense of the program. I have zero belief at the moment Cal will do any of what he says because its clear he believes his approach is a higher calling than prioritizing wins, and Cal appears to have very little interest into going back to the guy that lived on the hairy edge of basketball compliance and standards to reach the goal of winning a national championship.

To the OP, I don't really begrudge anyone that wants to give Cal a chance. I fully agree he has earned it. That said, I also fully agree that he has given the fans a steaming pile of you know what for a program just to satisfy his ego and is completely unapologetic for it.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

So much of our problem this season was the coach not playing the proper personnel because of stubbornness or promises or whatever.
Not necessarily anything to do with one and done

THIS! I’ve been bitching about it for months! I will continue to ***** about it! Folks better get used to me bitching about it! There’ll be posters bitching about me bitching about it! They’ll have to keep bitching because I’m gonna keep bitching too!

 

[ShadowFromHomewardBound]

Not offended. Have a good day.

You too man.

 

[Kybluedude]

Good thought. It’s over can’t change it. Humbling experience for the whole program and its fans. Get off the ground own it suck it up and move forward. Learn lessons from it and make the required changes.
Sometimes humble pie is a good thing. Makes all of us appreciate the good times more and forces change.
Im over this debacle and keenly interested in what Coach does going forward and extremely envious of the teams moving on in the tourney. Don’t want this to ever happen again.
I’ve been around awhile and have seen the dips- but the comebacks have more than made up for them

 

[TankedCat]

I know that was a long winded post I just had but here is another thing

There is no arguing that fans have left the program because of Cal.

The people that support Cal will not address this as an issue. Many of them treat UK fans as a replaceable commodity, when the reality is, this is the worst time possible , perhaps in the history of college basketball to alienate fans. The challenge is attracting new fans - which the sport as a whole is not doing.

Even during the Gillispie years, when people were mad at him for being a psycho, no one abandoned the program. The players essentially quit during the Senior night game against Georgia in open revolt and the fans didn't leave the program.

Its speaks volumes that Cal has steadily been losing the fanbase for multiple years (see Cal having to beg fans to attend games from 2 years ago) and its all due to his approach to basketball. Mercenary players that do not achieve the highest standard of basketball do not endear fans. When it becomes a pattern, then the connection to the program is lost.

If I was a UK fan (and I believe I am), and I know we are all tongue in cheek about the "true UK fan", but if I were a true UK fan, I would be very, very disturbed that a winning coach is losing fans year over year because his priorities alienate the fan base to connecting with the program. I don't see how you can continually put Cal on a pedestal while ignoring the very thing that makes UK great is finding other interests beside the program.

If you are not bothered by that, then how can you not ask yourself if you are a fan of Cal or Kentucky?

 

[Cowtown Cat]

@TankedCat is absolutely killing it in this thread! His posts are 100% spot on.

 

[Cawood86_rivals]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

I think your post is a good one.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

And you know this for a fact how?

Because we watched and paid attention to the games. You think Askew and Boston deserved 30+ minutes a game?! You think Askew should’ve played at point over Mintz?! Surely you won’t answer yes to either of these two questions. If so, you’re simply FOS.

 

[coachcombs57]

And.... sorry but a good portion of the roster is already gone... so. If we lose all of Mintz, Toppin and Brooks - well. Grateful for the guys that are coming back - but all are relatively unproven sans Allen if he can stay on the floor.

What exactly has Allen proven other than he can fill it up vs MsSt?

 

[Cowtown Cat]

What exactly has Allen proven other than he can fill it up vs MsSt?

What did Boston or Askew prove?

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

Some players should have been on the bench more. Some players should have been on the floor more. Some players were playing in the wrong position on the floor.

Cal set Sarr up for failure , had him posting up all season , another dreadful choice that most anyone knew wasnt his strength . Just absurd to keep doing 10-12 games into the season .

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I know that was a long winded post I just had but here is another thing

There is no arguing that fans have left the program because of Cal.

The people that support Cal will not address this as an issue. Many of them treat UK fans a replaceable commodity, when the reality is, this is the worst time possible , perhaps in the history of college basketball to alienate fans. The challenge is attracting new fans - which the sport as a whole is not doing.

Even during the Gillispie years, when people were mad at him for being a psycho, no one abandoned the program. The players essentially quit during the Senior night game against Georgia in open revolt and the fans didn't leave the program.

Its speaks volumes that Cal has steadily been losing the fanbase for multiple years (see Cal having to beg fans to attend games from 2 years ago) and its all due to his approach to basketball. Mercenary players that do not achieve the highest standard of basketball do not endear fans. When it becomes a pattern, then the connection to the program is lost.

If I was a UK fan (and I believe I am), and I know we are all tongue in cheek about the "true UK fan", but if I were a true UK fan, I would be very, very disturbed that a winning coach is losing fans year over year because his priorities alienate the fan base to connecting with the program. I don't see how you can continually put Cal on a pedestal while ignoring the very thing that makes UK great is finding other interests beside the program.

If you are not bothered by that, then how can you not ask yourself if you are not a fan of Cal or Kentucky?

Nailed it .

 

[Cowtown Cat]

What exactly has Allen proven other than he can fill it up vs MsSt?

He proved that he should’ve been getting much more PT the whole season. I mean, are people honestly serious with this BS?! Good Lord.

 

[revcort]

We really need to retain Toppin.
Mintz would be big and Jackson would be grand. Doubtful on him though.

I agree. Toppin is very important to keep. I'd love to keep Brooks and Mintz another season as well. I think all 3 are legitimate possibilities. Toppin is a must, in my opinion and I think he's coming back. Brooks probably intended to leave after this season, but given the way the season turned out and his early injury, I think he'd be wise to return. Getting Jackson back would be like winning the lottery. Get all 4 of those back, yahtzee! Ha! Here's hoping.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I agree. Toppin is very important to keep. I'd love to keep Brooks and Mintz another season as well. I think all 3 are legitimate possibilities. Toppin is a must, in my opinion and I think he's coming back. Brooks probably intended to leave after this season, but given the way the season turned out and his early injury, I think he'd be wise to return. Getting Jackson back would be like winning the lottery. Get all 4 of those back, yahtzee! Ha! Here's hoping.

Brooks really needs to work on his offensive game and find his identity. Not strong enough to play inside and not good enough off the bounce or good enough of a shooter to play on the perimeter.

 

[ManitouDan_anon]

I dont think Toppin or Brooks is the type of player that can lead us back to prominence , that simply are not that good . Nice players , but not UK elite at all.

 

[BourbonBalz]

And you know this for a fact how?

Eyes. You should try it.

 

[Bratkartoffeln]

I know we all have been getting heated over this season and our perceptions of Calipari as the head coach, his being paid huge amounts of money to have the worst season in UK history, whether he should be bought out, whether he should fire assistants, how he should recruit, how he should run his offense and defense, and etc.

I'd like to focus on where we agree. We all love this program and want the best for it. We've experienced great times supporting this team and we want to see those times again. So, whatever it takes to return to prominence, that's what we want to see. I'm not married to Calipari, so I will promise you all that if things do not improve, I'll join you in asking him to go.

I know some of you may not be willing to give him that chance and I've accepted that. But I will support him in that effort.

I think the beginning of Cal fixing this thing begins with retaining players. We can't have a mass exodus here, not after this season. That's the first test, in my opinion. Let's see where we stand when the dust settles on this season. if we're left with no roster and another roster from scratch, the talk of change becomes very empty. I guess we'll see.

I'm with you, more sampling is needed before we cast off Coach Cal, but we've already had Clarke and Boston leave when they had every reason to stay. The exodus is already happening before our eyes when it is clear neither are ready for the NBA, and it will likely not stop there. That indicates to me that we're recruiting kids who have not one iota of a feeling of team and tradition, but have every bit a notion that it's all about them. Throw in transfers and others leaving early and it's not a good feeling of stability that we'd rather feel. Calipari is the one mostly responsible for that line of thinking that ultimately runs contrary to what we are trying to do here: win games and championships. Covid-19 notwithstanding, the damage done by that program philosophy is no more evident than it is this year, but this isn't the first year and is definitely not just because of the pandemic. His direct message, or at least the tenor of his message that is being understood, is that "I can get you to the league in a minimum of time, likely only after one year." That is more a sham than it is in proper balance with things we need to sustain our legacy. For that reason, while I do still support him, I do worry about the future.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

I'm with you, more sampling is needed before we cast off Coach Cal, but we've already had Clarke and Boston leave when they had every reason to stay. The exodus is already happening before our eyes when it is clear neither are ready for the NBA, and it will likely not stop there. That indicates to me that we're recruiting kids who have not one iota of a feeling of team and tradition, but have every bit a notion that it's all about them. Throw in transfers and others leaving early and it's not a good feeling of stability that we'd rather feel. Calipari is the one mostly responsible for that line of thinking that ultimately runs contrary to what we are trying to do here: win games and championships. Covid-19 notwithstanding, the damage done by that program philosophy is no more evident than it is this year, but this isn't the first year and is definitely not just because of the pandemic. His direct message, or at least the tenor of his message that is being understood, is that "I can get you to the league in a minimum of time, likely only after one year." That is more a sham than it is in proper balance with things we need to sustain our legacy. For that reason, while I do still support him, I do worry about the future.

Exactly. Most of the recruits he’s getting are on a one or two year plan. Cal is literally telling them that during their recruitment.

 

[Cowtown Cat]

Eyes. You should try it.

If someone doesn’t understand that’s what’s going on, and especially so this season, I honestly don’t know what the hell they’re seeing. It’s as obvious to me as the nose on my face. It just baffles me to no end.

 

[revcort]

Brooks really needs to work on his offensive game and find his identity. Not strong enough to play inside and not good enough off the bounce or good enough of a shooter to play on the perimeter.

True, he's really like a tweener in some ways. I guess that has positives and negatives. He has the potential to play some inside but he can also play some outside. He's not really a banger because he doesn't have the strength. He's not a great shooter or ball handler, so he's not a wing. I do think he could become a guy who could cause major problems for defenses if, as you say, he works on his game and perfects his skills. That should be his focus this off-season. I really can't imagine any NBA team taking him. If he leaves UK, he would end up in the g-league. I don't think he wants to go there because he would likely get overshadowed by other guys trying to make their way with more experience and skills. His best bet is to come back.