The way John Calipari Coaches. He has a system that he teaches each class of what he wants. Each week he implements something different on what he expects. He does this all the way up to Tournament time. Yes he will lose a game or two maybe you shouldn’t. But he would rather lose them in November than the first week of the NCAA when a team keeps making the same mistakes because they didn’t correct them in November. Just watch as this team improves!
I think you guys don’t understand
- Thread starter etowncatfan
- Start date
That's great, but in recent years it actually seems that we end up losing in the tournament because we make the exact same mistakes we were making in November. Care to explain that?
Why do some think that we don't understand what he's doing. We do understand it. It's the decision to do it this way that bothers everyone. When you defend crap like yesterday by saying 'of course an all freshmen team will lose to a senior team', then why have an all freshmen team then? Even the ones defending it know this is not the proper way to build a roster. The design of having a completely new roster every year is what everyone is upset with. This isn't going to get better next year or the year after.
Yeah, his system sucks for fans that want championships over bragging about lottery picks in the NBA. He’s had the most talented players forever and can’t seem to ever cross the finish line. It took a freak of nature in Davis to allow him to do it. His system isn’t built to produce championships. Period!!
His system is built to win period. You can’t argue that he hasn’t been successful. If you want a coach to just roll the ball out go root for Memphis. Very few Coaches have had the Success of John Calipari ever period.
Like I said in another thread, some of the frustrations of watching ****** basketball in November are starting to boil over in large part because we are also in a pretty significant dry spell in March. If we weren’t in the middle of what I think is fair to call a Final Four drought, people would probably be a little more chill about the terrible basketball in November/December we are consistently seeing. Will we be better in March? Hell yeah we will be. Will we be “better enough?” We’ll see.
I think more people “understand” than you realize. They just aren’t enjoying it.
I think more people “understand” than you realize. They just aren’t enjoying it.
The other part is if or when we lose in March we’ll have another dozen people saying “well march is just a crapshoot, can’t get worked up over what happens in a one and done tournament.”
when do we get to care?
when do we get to care?
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I think it's a valid criticism.
People want some crossover from year to year so that we are good throughout the year.
March isn't a total crapshoot but luck does play a role. We could have easily gone to final fours in 17 and 19 and easily could have missed in 11 and 14. In other words I don't see there being some gulf of difference between the four years just because two of them were final fours and two were elite 8s.
But I do understand the frustration people have.
People want some crossover from year to year so that we are good throughout the year.
March isn't a total crapshoot but luck does play a role. We could have easily gone to final fours in 17 and 19 and easily could have missed in 11 and 14. In other words I don't see there being some gulf of difference between the four years just because two of them were final fours and two were elite 8s.
But I do understand the frustration people have.
Cal has to recruit as many studs as he can each year because there is no way of knowing who all transfers/enters the draft or balls out like Herro/Booker before the season starts. I don’t think Cal intends to have >90% roster turnover each year, but it is a product of the system he created. Very few players are here after their sophomore year because there’s always going to be a 5 star enrolling. Your time to showcase your skills in college is limited. When they realize that they will have to compete for minutes if they stay, they enter prematurely or transfer to a school that will utilize them immediately.
Ah we understand it perfectly well. Enough to know it isn’t working.
The reason that happens is Cal has made the one and done his selling point to the recruits. He's not selling them on Kentucky. He's not selling them on National Titles. He's selling them the draft. And for that reason no player coming here believes he will still be on the roster 9 months from now. There is nobody on this roster that believes that next year will be the year they take over. It's all a result of Cal's selling pitch. It's not a reasonable objective. And I believe it not only harms the team, it hurts most of his kid's NBA potential.
Yea one title. That's allI see. How much longer do we put up with this though? How many more years is it ok to go on a championship drought?
I'm not ready to fire Cal yet. But the honeymoon is over. He's got nothing to show the last 3 years. The "we are young" bs is getting old. If he doesn't get another title here. It's a failure.
First 5 years .. historically good . Last 5 years .. not so much
Resume A (5 seasons)
131-40 record
2 Elite Eights
2 Outright SEC Titles
9-5 NCAA Tournament Record
2 SEC Tournament Titles
Resume B (5 seasons)
140-39 record
2 Elite Eights
2 Outright SEC Titles (3 Overall)
9-4 NCAA Tournament Record
2 SEC Tournament Titles
Resume A: Tubby Smith’s Last 5 Years at Kentucky
Resume B: John Calipari’s Last 5 Years at Kentucky
Do you know how hard it is to win one Championship?? Go ask any Coach. Hasn’t done anything last 3 years? I am guessing you are counting last year in there even though there wasn’t a Tournament
Why are we just throwing years out tho.
I mean okay lets just throw the last 5 years out and keep the first 5.
It doesn't work that way.
Cal is getting more leeway than Tubby because he's earned that leeway
I mean okay lets just throw the last 5 years out and keep the first 5.
It doesn't work that way.
Cal is getting more leeway than Tubby because he's earned that leeway
Leeway ? Cals bragging and pot shots at the fans don’t exactly churn up the warm fuzzies. Losing to so many unbanked teams doesn’t earn it . Losing to K state and a injured auburn doesn’t earn it . Leeway is giving a coach several years to straighten stuff out l it doesn’t appear we have . Can you imagine if Sarr chose someone else ?
Wow, that's an eye opener. Given these stats, here's the question for the Cal diehards: Did you want Tubby gone at the end of his stint here? If so, why do you not want Cal gone?
Here's the tradeoff though. Every year we have to watch high school level garbage early on for a shot in the tourney later. This is our time Cal expects us to invest. Problem is I don't like watching this crap and as a result care less about the team with each passing year. If we had a transcendent talent or two, or sans that a better overall team that might keep me more interested but I no longer see us winning a title as things are now.
Nohody has done less with the talent Cal has had over the years. Only one that comes close is Coach K. It's obvious very difficult to win with freshman. But if Calipari doesn't get another Anthony Davis and key players to come back because of a lockout. He's never winning another title here.
It's just absurd he has one title. It's inexcusable.
If there wasn’t such a clear dichotomy between the first 5 years and the next 5 years I’d agree. That would feel like cherry picking if it was more evenly distributed throughout the tenure. When it’s a clear line of demarcation I think it makes sense. It’s called a trend.
No, trust me, we all get it. We have seen it for 1o years. We have seen when it works and we have seen when it doesn't and we know exactly why it worked or it didn't.
When you have a brand new team every year, it’s a no brainer how it has to go, but when you create a culture that directly results in the creation of the problem, you are the problem.
This thing worked until 2015, but things changed and now it's not working. Top 5 players are not coming to UK, we are getting projects that STILL leave after 1 year. That’s not a college basketball program, that's a G-League team they has to go to class and has limited practice time. It makes no sense if winning college games is your goal.
Trust me, we alllll get it
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I'd argue that due to Cal's higher level success in the first 6 seasons (4 FFs, 2CG appearances, 1Title) then he has another 3-4 years to get back to a FF before this is an equal comparison from a "if this then that" standpoint.
But absolutely, if we hit a 10 year FF drought and Cal isn't changing philosophies or styles, then it'll be time to move on.
Enough said, facts do not lie. We are now having to relive the last 5 years of Tubby. One exception, Tubby never went to the NIT, Cal, yep he did.
Yesterday sucked but a team full of senior 3 stars might have lost too. It was a bad performance and I hate losi in rupp especially to a lower echelon team but if we get a full season I think he has the pieces to have a good run.
Now that I've seen you post on the football board, I understand you better. You’re a lot more passionate over there. I've actually seen you get angry on that board, but here, you’re much more laid back, like it doesn’t mean that much to you. I know you are a UK fan, but you appear to be more about FB than BK.
So, given that, you should fully understand why basketball first fans don’t like the current state of the program. I mean, UK football never has won anything on the big stage in modern times and probably never will, but you are still passionate about it. UK basketball is supposed to he the pinnacle of the sport, but it's in a decline and it's because our leader cares more about NBA contracts than building a solid foundation at UK.
I’m willing for 1-2 -3 more years . But you start having bad home losses every year and don’t make a FF .. that’s not good . And yes upsets happen . I get 5he feeling yesterday was no upset . They played a terrible —- just awful first half , and the game was close. Then go on to dominate us . Basically a blow out . That’s got good either . Sometimes how you lose matters .
Since Cal has been here UCONN has more titles than him and they beat him on the way both times. Duke and Villanova also have 2 titles to his one, yet he has had the most talent. Just listen to him brag about his draft picks. I don’t give two s……s about draft picks.
2011 and 2014 is how it should go in this system. By March, these ultra elite athletes have rounded the corner, but it didn't happen in 2016 or 2018. We lost to two bad teams those years and Cal had a future NBA all star in his backcourt in 2016.
In 2019, youth jumped up and bit us in the form of missed free throws (again) and a massive amount of turnovers (guess who that was). Freshmen crumble under the bright lights, especially when they aren't elite freshmen.
Why is everyone else able to keep their best players through their senior years?
Is it smart to have a system with massive roster churn each year if winning titles is your goal?
Go look at his resume since 2015 when he stopped getting top 5 kids.
So, this post tells me it's you that doesn’t understand. This system only works for UK when you get top 5 kids, like Cal was getting up until 2014, but he's not getting them now, but everyone still leaves after 1 year.
Welp, he is halfway there so far. Lost in 2nd round. Then Elite Eight. Then lost in Sweet Sixteen. Then lost in Elite Eight. Then no tourney last year.
With a limited season (may or may not last) these early losses carry a lot more weight. Don't have the time this year like in years past.
One title going into his 12th year. More talent than any UK coach in the modern era. I'm sorry, but you don't get to brag like Cal does about his players NBA success and then not have to answer as to why he hasn't won more titles at UK.
Let's not forget, UK DID NOT hire him to get kids NBA money. They hired him to work for UK.
I’m not real sure how I feel about the loss yesterday! It’s definitely upsetting!
I’m probably wrong, but a player who averages 10+ points a game at UK are almost always on the NBA radar. A player almost anywhere else average the same number isn’t as likely to get drafted. It’s difficult to build a team with upper classman. If a 4 star guy at UK can chew gum and walk at the same time, he gets drafted. So what do we do? Go after 2-3 star guys? Well, we may beat better teams early in the year, but what are our chances of winning in the tourney with a roster of 2-3 star players?
I’m probably wrong, but a player who averages 10+ points a game at UK are almost always on the NBA radar. A player almost anywhere else average the same number isn’t as likely to get drafted. It’s difficult to build a team with upper classman. If a 4 star guy at UK can chew gum and walk at the same time, he gets drafted. So what do we do? Go after 2-3 star guys? Well, we may beat better teams early in the year, but what are our chances of winning in the tourney with a roster of 2-3 star players?
But it does work that way. It works in business and it works in athletics.
We knew the things accomplished in the first 5 years was not something that was sustainable, but the last 5 years has shown a sharp downward trend with 2017 being an outlier. Too many 10 loss seasons and early exits when the coach makes $10 million a year and he gets the most talent every year.
How long do you watch a downward trend before you do something about it?
In the end nobody wanted Tubby to leave. They wanted him to get rid of some assistant coaches and replace them with some people who could recruit. Remember Tubby left us. We didn’t get rid of him.
Actually this isn't correct about me. I am first and foremost a basketball fan. I grew up in NY and honestly was never all that into college football until I moved to WV (my wife is a big WVU fan). I started to follow UK basketball when my cousin took me to Madison Square Garden during one of those holiday tournament things. We went to see St. Johns but UK was playing before them. This was mid 90s and I absolutely loved the style of play under Pitino. Been a fan ever since.
I didn't get into UK football until mid 2000s.
I think in general I am more passionate about basketball.
But I can see why people might think differently. Here's the thing to me. Football is 12 games most season. There is no room to drop games that you should be winning. I don't expect UK to knock off Bama or Florida but it just means that the other games are way more significant. Especially this year when we play no out of conference games to pad our win total.
UK basketball I've grown to accept what it is. UK under Cal won't be good in November. Honestly even at the beginning of all of this. Does anyone remember 2010? Yeah we won games but we struggled even in that year. It took a Wall buzzer beater to knock off MIami OH. We struggled vs Stanford. Other than 12 and 15 I can't think of any year we didn't struggle a bit in Nov.
But here's the thing...........basketball titles aren't won in November. And Cal does STILL even in the last 5 years have us playing our best basketball in March.
This is why although losing to Richmond sucks and it bothers me, it doesn't bother me as much. I've seen this story before. We all have.
And I'm sorry I just do not buy this notion that because we were one possession away in 17 and 19 and we hit last second shots in 11 and 14 to make a final four that we are somehow on a downward spiral like some do.