Ref admits he shouldn't have gave Cal a tech

[IUfanBorden]

The money comes from member institutions, aka the NCAA. I get the NCAA doesn’t write your check. That said, I have had many independent contractors work for me. I didn’t pay their salary, but trust me I knew where their loyalties were.

When’s the last time you were evaluated by someone completely independent of your employer, their employer, or the holder of your employers contract, etc?

Are you really going to argue this? The NCAA has NO say in the hiring, firing, susoending, reprimanding, etc, etc...of officials. NONE. Now, if you violate NCAA policy, then YES, the NCAA can AND probably will disallow you to work sanctioned NCAA events. BUT....when it comes to how games are called, what protocol is used, etc, etc...the NCAA has ZERO bearing in this . NONE.

I get it---THe NCAA is the employer of the Head of Officials for the NCAA. The HOF is the boss of the head of officials for said conference's.... HOF for said conference's is my boss...So forth and so forth..But that's just legal, technicality ****, that you are trying to interject into the conversation, for sake of your stance....Sorry, its irrelevant. The NCAA has no hand in the officiating. None.

THink about it...When is the last time you saw an official suspended, reprimanded by the NCAA? YOu haven't. Ted Valentine was reprimaned by the Big 10 and the ACC. Not the NCAA. Not Mr. Emmert. But by the conference. WHen I was reprimanded a few years back, it came directly from the office of the conference I worked for...MOF, it was a conference policy---Not an NCAA issue.

Sure technically, you are "correct". But in reality, you are very wrong.

 

[kybassfan]

Are you really going to argue this? The NCAA has NO say in the hiring, firing, susoending, reprimanding, etc, etc...of officials. NONE. Now, if you violate NCAA policy, then YES, the NCAA can AND probably will disallow you to work sanctioned NCAA events. BUT....when it comes to how games are called, what protocol is used, etc, etc...the NCAA has ZERO bearing in this . NONE.

I get it---THe NCAA is the employer of the Head of Officials for the NCAA. The HOF is the boss of the head of officials for said conference's.... HOF for said conference's is my boss...So forth and so forth..But that's just legal, technicality ****, that you are trying to interject into the conversation, for sake of your stance....Sorry, its irrelevant. The NCAA has no hand in the officiating. None.

THink about it...When is the last time you saw an official suspended, reprimanded by the NCAA? YOu haven't. Ted Valentine was reprimaned by the Big 10 and the ACC. Not the NCAA. Not Mr. Emmert. But by the conference. WHen I was reprimanded a few years back, it came directly from the office of the conference I worked for...MOF, it was a conference policy---Not an NCAA issue.

Sure technically, you are "correct". But in reality, you are very wrong.

You distinguish between the conference’s and the NCAA. Just who do you think is the sanctioning body for the conference? I never fired an independent contractor either. I had another group do that for me.

The buck stops with the NCAA. The service is substandard. It needs to be stripped from the NCAA completely. From your perspective that may seem like a conference, but they kneel before the NCAA. Regardless of how your perceive it, it is not working.

 

[IUfanBorden]

You distinguish between the conference’s and the NCAA. Just who do you think is the sanctioning body for the conference? I never fired an independent contractor either. I had another group do that for me.

The buck stops with the NCAA. The service is substandard. It needs to be stripped from the NCAA completely. From your perspective that may seem like a conference, but they kneel before the NCAA. Regardless of how your perceive it, it is not working.

You are affiliating the NCAA with officiating, b/c the NCAA is the governing body.....But that is where it stops. Conference's hire their own HOF, without consent, or direction, from the NCAA. HOF for conference's, are paid and monitored by that conference...Not the NCAA. Yes, I know the $$ mostly comes from the NCAA....but again, irrelevant. MOF, we are paid by the athletic departments...which is separate from the school. That money comes from boosters and of course, FOOTBALL.

The only thing the NCAA is guilty of when it comes to officials, is by association...But they make no decisions on who works games. None. They make no decisions on suspensions, reprimands, etc, etc...Conference's do. And those guidelines are set by the conference---Not the NCAA.

Again, technically, you are correct...But in reality, you are not.

IMO, if the NCAA were to get involved, make officials employee's, I 100% believe the officiating would get much better.

 

[kybassfan]

Consolidating in single hierarchy would simply amplify the grotesque corruption in the NCAA. It must be pulled completely out. Have each member institution write a single check for officiating to the independent firm. Audit the firm by an independent third party. No input from the NCAA or it’s affiliates or member institutions whatsoever aside from the payment.

The current structure is broken. You are saying moving it from incompetent affiliates into a corrupt parent is an improvement. I reject that. Make it completely independent.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Consolidating in single hierarchy would simply amplify the grotesque corruption in the NCAA. It must be pulled completely out. Have each member institution write a single check for officiating to the independent firm. Audit the firm by an independent third party. No input from the NCAA or it’s affiliates or member institutions whatsoever aside from the payment.

The current structure is broken. You are saying moving it from incompetent affiliates into a corrupt parent is an improvement. I reject that. Make it completely independent.

It already is...My pay comes from athletic departments....From their budget. WHich is separate from the school. Each memebered institution ALREADY, "writes a check"....they write that check to said association that I am affiliated with...

Example: I work in the GLVC. My assignor is "Ted". A games fee is $225. When the game is over, if I am the referee, I send in the score through my report. When "Ted" recieves this, he "bills" said school. The money is then sent to "Ted", who then sends it to me, via Arbiter.

The current structure is broken, But not b/c of the NCAA. They have very little control over officiating. They do not hire...They do not assign games....They do not pay...They do not supervise...They do not grade....Only thing they do is provide a platform.

Now, COULD they do so(intervene)? Sure, they can. But they don't. Its like at my job..I oversee our production...My boss, the owner, COULD intervene, and at times he does. But 99% he lets me do things my way. Same with the NCAA. Sure they could get involved....But they don't. They leave that to the HOF and conference's.

I think the NCAA SHOULD get involved. I think they SHOULD make officials, employee's....Set protocols, and make officials follow those protocol's. And if they do not, then suspend, or fire them. In other words, do it as the NBA does. NAB tells its officials---"this is how you are going to call it, and if you don't---well, thanks for your service..." The NCAA doesn't have that power. Its hard to fire someone who doesn't work for you, directly. Really hard.

 

[kybassfan]

It already is...My pay comes from athletic departments....From their budget. WHich is separate from the school. Each memebered institution ALREADY, "writes a check"....they write that check to said association that I am affiliated with...

Example: I work in the GLVC. My assignor is "Ted". A games fee is $225. When the game is over, if I am the referee, I send in the score through my report. When "Ted" recieves this, he "bills" said school. The money is then sent to "Ted", who then sends it to me, via Arbiter.

The current structure is broken, But not b/c of the NCAA. They have very little control over officiating. They do not hire...They do not assign games....They do not pay...They do not supervise...They do not grade....Only thing they do is provide a platform.

Now, COULD they do so(intervene)? Sure, they can. But they don't. Its like at my job..I oversee our production...My boss, the owner, COULD intervene, and at times he does. But 99% he lets me do things my way. Same with the NCAA. Sure they could get involved....But they don't. They leave that to the HOF and conference's.

I think the NCAA SHOULD get involved. I think they SHOULD make officials, employee's....Set protocols, and make officials follow those protocol's. And if they do not, then suspend, or fire them. In other words, do it as the NBA does. NAB tells its officials---"this is how you are going to call it, and if you don't---well, thanks for your service..." The NCAA doesn't have that power. Its hard to fire someone who doesn't work for you, directly. Really hard.

We just disagree. Everything you present stinks of NCAA. The pay comes from the member institutions budgets. Beholding to the NCAA. The conferences supervise. Beholding to the NCAA. The NCAA is corrupt beyond belief. The only place worse than Federal and State governments is the NCAA. Its already there and it is broken. Placing it even deeper in the corrupt bowels of that organization is just wrong.

We disagree.

 

[IUfanBorden]

We just disagree. Everything you present stinks of NCAA. The pay comes from the member institutions budgets. Beholding to the NCAA. The conferences supervise. Beholding to the NCAA. The NCAA is corrupt beyond belief. The only place worse than Federal and State governments is the NCAA. Its already there and it is broken. Placing it even deeper in the corrupt bowels of that organization is just wrong.

We disagree.

False...The money comes from football and boosters...Athletic departments are separate from the school, and they share no monies. NCAA has no ties to college football.

Do I think the NCAA is corrupt? Probably. I dunno. I think they are inconsistent as hell...And catered to said schools. So yeah, I guess corrupt fits.

All of that is irrelevant. The NCAA has zero say in officiating...Again, they DO NOT assign games...In other words, no one DIRECTLY from the NCAA has a say who works where. They don't pick who works the Duke/UK game...Or the Kansas/MSU game...

I cannot make it any clearer my friend. The NCAA does not worry itself with officials. It does not get involved.

Its OK to acknowledge you "learned something new". I've been involved with officiating/umpiring college sports for over 10+ years. Pretty sure I have a good hand on the subject.

 

[kybassfan]

False...The money comes from football and boosters...Athletic departments are separate from the school, and they share no monies. NCAA has no ties to college football.

Do I think the NCAA is corrupt? Probably. I dunno. I think they are inconsistent as hell...And catered to said schools. So yeah, I guess corrupt fits.

All of that is irrelevant. The NCAA has zero say in officiating...Again, they DO NOT assign games...In other words, no one DIRECTLY from the NCAA has a say who works where. They don't pick who works the Duke/UK game...Or the Kansas/MSU game...

I cannot make it any clearer my friend. The NCAA does not worry itself with officials. It does not get involved.

Its OK to acknowledge you "learned something new". I've been involved with officiating/umpiring college sports for over 10+ years. Pretty sure I have a good hand on the subject.

Right. you know others might have experience too. Just saying. Your experience with the financial intricacies of universities is, shall we say, limited. I will further say if ANY money comes to officials from boosters, that is a recipe for disaster.

You confuse the mundane day to day operations of officiating as the only means for influence. Trust me it is not, though you might be better off thinking that.

I do appreciate the discussion however. More than ever, you have convinced me that the NCAA has no business in oversight of officiating. This needs complete outsourcing. It needs independent auditing and quality control. It needs better and more extensive training to promote uniform professionalism and standards of excellence.