Indiana's Justin Smith

deplion_rivals116063

All-American
May 21, 2002
26,689
8,595
0

plaxico80

Heisman
Nov 25, 2002
25,238
16,403
113
Smith was a very, very frustrating player to watch. Unreal athleticism and a very, very good defender. Problem is, he couldn't score outside 5 feet of the basket and being that he wasn't anything resembling a big, he rarely was a threat on the offensive end.

IU will miss Justin's experience and defense, but both Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson will see a lot more playing time and that's a very good thing.
 
A

anon_9qtxg60vqzy0y

Guest
Smith was a very, very frustrating player to watch. Unreal athleticism and a very, very good defender. Problem is, he couldn't score outside 5 feet of the basket and being that he wasn't anything resembling a big, he rarely was a threat on the offensive end.

IU will miss Justin's experience and defense, but both Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson will see a lot more playing time and that's a very good thing.
Race Thompson can play. I like his game and attitude. Hard worker with no fan fare.
 

plaxico80

Heisman
Nov 25, 2002
25,238
16,403
113
Those guys were available last year, played in nearly every game, and didn't average as many points or rebounds COMBINED as Smith. And neither comes close to his athleticism or defensive ability.

Two of Indiana's top three scorers (Devonte Green) off a tied-for-10th place in the conference team are now gone, and a top rebounder and defender. Only one likely contributor added in Landers, and he's a 6', 160-pound guard, which is already a perceived strength in Phinisee and Durham.

Not sure how much you've watched Smith over the last 3 years, but he was what he was. A solid player who should have been much better. Very good defensively, improved a little offensively but with his athletic ability, he should have been much, much better than he was. That pretty much sums him up.

I won't go into a long explanation of why Jerome Hunter played less than Smith last year except to say before last season, IU fans weren't sure if Hunter would ever play basketball again. He had a blood clotting issue but slowly improved enough that late in the year he looked like the kid IU fans hoped they'd be getting when many felt he was a better prospect than Romeo Langford. Hunter's healthy now and don't be surprised if he has a very big year for IU. Race Thompson just keeps getting better and better and while you're right Justin Smith played more than both Hunter and Thompson, many IU fans were pretty pissed that was the case.

Justin will be missed for one big reason: interior depth.

If IU can land even a decent option grad transfer to play on the interior, Smith's loss won't be felt all that much.
 

plaxico80

Heisman
Nov 25, 2002
25,238
16,403
113
I watch mostly the IU road games. They rarely disappoint.

I know Hunter had health issues coming into last year, but he played virtually every game, averaging double-digit minutes, so he must not have been too lame.

Guys can get better, given the right coaching. Based on the results of the past three years, I'd say it is hard to count on that with Archie.

But I am on record as saying this is a likely tournament appearance year for IU -- though I also said that in the Romeo Langford year and was proven wrong.

Hunter was on a minutes restriction for quite awhile. They were very careful with him he improved as the season went along. Still has a ways to go but if I were to pick one IU player to have a big breakout season, it would be Hunter.

When it comes to players improving under Archie, there's no question Al Durham has improved a lot and so has Race Thompson. The main guys who haven't improved enough are Rob Phinisee and the now departed Justin Smith (although to be fair, Smith never had any offensive game and he did improve immensely on the defensive end and Phinisee just cannot stay healthy. Dude's body hasn't improved one iota yet and that's either on him or the injuries).

Slowly Archie is changing the culture at IU. Would I like it to happen faster? Sure, but the inconsistency of the Clappy years was very tough and by the time the Clapster got canned, IU was struggling to recruit ANYBODY. Archie's concentrating on landing Indiana kids and that's right move. So far he's doing a good job recruiting.

No, we're not landing UK level talent but after the Davis, Sampson and Clappy years, I'm fine with the level of talent Archie is landing.
 

NCPurplecat

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2019
1,104
1,070
0
Smith was getting minutes, contributing and improving. While not a shooter he rounded out a pretty decent team. He was fun and frustrating to watch. For IU Jackson-Davis will play in the NBA but will be gone after this year. There are multiple decent guards and Brunk is is a good second big. IU can make another Sweet 16 run but loses the front line after this year. UK has 2 solid FY front line players coming in and is going all out to get another one, IU is far more thin. While they have options to replace Smith, IU just can't get a rythm going. Other Big 10 schools are recruiting as well or better. Archie has talent but needs it to come together soon. He is no longer a fresh hire. He can at least recruit Indiana. Coming together means getting out of the 1st weekend if the NCAA tourney for IU.For UK it means a Final four. The difference is huge.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
Averaged double digit points in the Big 10 last season, so he isn’t too shabby. Might star at some mid-major school or be a good role player on another P5 team. Would be shocked if he was interested in UK and vice versa unless Sarr was ruled ineligible and we were in desperate need of a 5 man.
 

Allcats08

All-Conference
Feb 13, 2019
1,633
2,996
113
Hunter was on a minutes restriction for quite awhile. They were very careful with him he improved as the season went along. Still has a ways to go but if I were to pick one IU player to have a big breakout season, it would be Hunter.

When it comes to players improving under Archie, there's no question Al Durham has improved a lot and so has Race Thompson. The main guys who haven't improved enough are Rob Phinisee and the now departed Justin Smith (although to be fair, Smith never had any offensive game and he did improve immensely on the defensive end and Phinisee just cannot stay healthy. Dude's body hasn't improved one iota yet and that's either on him or the injuries).

Slowly Archie is changing the culture at IU. Would I like it to happen faster? Sure, but the inconsistency of the Clappy years was very tough and by the time the Clapster got canned, IU was struggling to recruit ANYBODY. Archie's concentrating on landing Indiana kids and that's right move. So far he's doing a good job recruiting.

No, we're not landing UK level talent but after the Davis, Sampson and Clappy years, I'm fine with the level of talent Archie is landing.
Sampson years? Worst thing y’all did was fire him. Should of just did what everyone else does to the ncaa now, which is ignore them. What he did wasn’t near as bad as what Kansas, Arizona, etc. are on the hook for now. He was landing big time talent too, like Eric Gordon
 

NCPurplecat

All-Conference
Aug 3, 2019
1,104
1,070
0
Sampson was a great recruiter. His violations were minor compared to what has gone on at UNC and other schools. The problem was not the minor but the many for him. I am sure that he would have upped his recruiting game and kept IU on par with Kansas and Arizona had he stayed. The outcome would have been the same. Crean did not have the violations but had many player issues. Unlike Cal who is a player first coach, Crean drew too much attention to himself. That was part of how he lost out on the recruiting stage. With all the focus on UK basketball, there is a transparency to the program that actually helps. Cal wants the best for his players and the team and that shows. The year or two of college help makes the transition to the next phase of life better for UK recruits. Cal tops any IU coach on what he has done for his team.
 

EdgeHD

Senior
May 17, 2020
407
595
0
Will graduate and transfer. Would be a nice insurance policy for the front court although he is a little undersized for his position.

Man wouldn't this get under the Hoosiers' skin?

https://www.insidethehall.com/2020/05/22/indiana-forward-justin-smith-entering-transfer-portal/
The only true PF on our roster is Lance Ware. No doubt Isaiah Jackson can play inside the paint, but he weighs only 200#. Both are inexperienced freshmen. Keion Brooks is a combo player who looks more comfortable playing on the perimeter. There is room on the team for Justin Smith, or for another experienced interior player like him. But Smith would not be an insurance policy. He would start.
 

bucsrule8872

Heisman
May 30, 2005
24,397
29,352
0
The only true PF on our roster is Lance Ware. No doubt Isaiah Jackson can play inside the paint, but he weighs only 200#. Both are inexperienced freshmen. Keion Brooks is a combo player who looks more comfortable playing on the perimeter. There is room on the team for Justin Smith, or for another experienced interior player like him. But Smith would not be an insurance policy. He would start.

Can’t see Smith starting here unless Sarr is ineligible. Brooks will start at the 4 and Sarr at the 5.

No Sarr and Smith would be the starter at the 5.

I just don’t see him as a Cal 5. He would be a desperation move if there was nothing else left. Cal covets length. Smith doesn’t look very long.
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
113
Smith was a very, very frustrating player to watch. Unreal athleticism and a very, very good defender. Problem is, he couldn't score outside 5 feet of the basket and being that he wasn't anything resembling a big, he rarely was a threat on the offensive end.

IU will miss Justin's experience and defense, but both Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson will see a lot more playing time and that's a very good thing.
Yeah, he definitely wasn’t a 3 because he had no offense outside of the paint and he wanted to be a 3. IU can now play a modern offense. Defense might suffer some but I will bet they don’t have those long offensive droughts anymore. Team will benefit in long run.
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
113
I watch mostly the IU road games. They rarely disappoint.

I know Hunter had health issues coming into last year, but he played virtually every game, averaging double-digit minutes, so he must not have been too lame.

Guys can get better, given the right coaching. Based on the results of the past three years, I'd say it is hard to count on that with Archie.

But I am on record as saying this is a likely tournament appearance year for IU -- though I also said that in the Romeo Langford year and was proven wrong.
The thing with Hunter is they didn’t want to play him too many minutes at first to see how his body would hold up. He ended up being fine but they limited his minutes a lot in the beginning. That is why his averages were so low. Hunter made 15 of his last 41 3s for the season, much more offensive potential.
 

ConRay9

All-American
Nov 15, 2017
3,199
6,711
0
Just looked on their message board. A lot of the clowns over there are trying to spin this as a positive. They are in no position to be losing players that averaged 30 mins and 10+ points a game.

They are the most delusional fan base in sports.
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
113
Averaged double digit points in the Big 10 last season, so he isn’t too shabby. Might star at some mid-major school or be a good role player on another P5 team. Would be shocked if he was interested in UK and vice versa unless Sarr was ruled ineligible and we were in desperate need of a 5 man.
You don’t want Smith unless you are ok with a bad shooter who wants to prove he is a 3. Good player if he plays to his strengths but he wants to prove he has SF skills of offense, which he doesn’t have at all, Can’t dribble, shoot or pass. He is a 4 all the way.
 

IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
0

IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
0
Just looked on their message board. A lot of the clowns over there are trying to spin this as a positive. They are in no position to be losing players that averaged 30 mins and 10+ points a game.

They are the most delusional fan base in sports.
THis is a pretty bad take my friend. Smith was a cancer...There are two players more than capable of replacing him---Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson. PLus, it opens up minutes for others, i.e. Lander and Franklin. Smith was an athlete trying to play basketball. Nothing delusional at all with the take of it being a positive.
 

JayCatz44

Heisman
May 14, 2003
20,482
15,540
113
Indiana will do enough to make the tournament and for Miller to keep his job. They're a first-weekend exit team at best.
 

IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
0
Indiana will do enough to make the tournament and for Miller to keep his job. They're a first-weekend exit team at best.
Thar won't get it done. If this is the scenario, IU wont fire him...but they won't extend him either. Which is a way of saying-----"thanks for your time."
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
113
THis is a pretty bad take my friend. Smith was a cancer...There are two players more than capable of replacing him---Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson. PLus, it opens up minutes for others, i.e. Lander and Franklin. Smith was an athlete trying to play basketball. Nothing delusional at all with the take of it being a positive.
Yeah context matters. He was much more interested in his academics (which there is nothing wrong with) than basketball and it showed in his lack of improvement.
 

JayCatz44

Heisman
May 14, 2003
20,482
15,540
113
Thar won't get it done. If this is the scenario, IU wont fire him...but they won't extend him either. Which is a way of saying-----"thanks for your time."
If this is the scenario, Miller will indeed be your coach in 21-22. IU will not field a team capable of doing more than that. Miller will be gone after the 21-22 season. That's my prediction.
 

IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
0
Yeah context matters. He was much more interested in his academics (which there is nothing wrong with) than basketball and it showed in his lack of improvement.
Very, very smart young man...Graduated from KSB in three years...That is impressive. I just don't think he and Miller ever clicked, and Archie played him out of necessity. Lazy defender, who was always slow on recovering..A good on ball defender at times. But off the ball, he was gawd awful. He won us some games....And his exp will be missed. But he took more plays/games off thanDevonte. IMO, this is a positive for IU. Opens up time for Race and Jerome.
 
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IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
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If this is the scenario, Miller will indeed be your coach in 21-22. IU will not field a team capable of doing more than that. Miller will be gone after the 21-22 season. That's my prediction.
IU won't fire him unless we absolutely tank it.....If we are as we were this year, he won't be extended. WHich is basically being fired. With what is returning, and what is coming in-----He has to win. And win big.

I don't get into predicitions. I think Miller is a good coach; a very good defensive coach. I feel he's had some bad luck at IU with key injuries, and the fact of the guys he inherited; just a flawed roster for what Miller wants to do. So, with that being said, my prediction so to speak is easy:

he had better win. This is HIS team....HIS kids. And its a good roster, with talent. No excuses. Time to put up, or pack up.
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
113
Very, very smart young man...Graduated from KSB in three years...That is impressive. I just don't think he and Miller ever clicked, and Archie played him out of necessity. Lazy defender, who was always slow on recovering..A good on ball defender at times. But off the ball, he was gawd awful. He won us some games....And his exp will be missed. But he took more plays/games off thanDevonte. IMO, this is a positive for IU. Opens up time for Race and Jerome.
Yeah he wasn’t always engaged and a lot of that was due to his unhappiness with playing the 4. He saw himself as a 3 but didn’t develop the offense skills level to deserve that thought process. Race and Hunter (someday Geronimo) will fill that role much better with their skill and consistency.
 
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IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
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Yeah he wasn’t always engaged and a lot of that was due to his unhappiness with playing the 4. He saw himself as a 3 but didn’t develop the offense skills level to deserve that thought process. Race and Hunter (someday Geronimo) will fill that role much better with their skill and consistency.
SMith was too soft, to often. Couldn't find a consistent jumper. Its why Miller played him at the "4". Had Smith bought into that, and played with some toughness, kid coud have been really good. I wish him the best.....but whoever gets him, wil be in for a surprise.
 

ConRay9

All-American
Nov 15, 2017
3,199
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THis is a pretty bad take my friend. Smith was a cancer...There are two players more than capable of replacing him---Jerome Hunter and Race Thompson. PLus, it opens up minutes for others, i.e. Lander and Franklin. Smith was an athlete trying to play basketball. Nothing delusional at all with the take of it being a positive.

Did he just luck into 10 points a game? I was saying Indiana is not exactly in the position to lose players—even just a role player, let alone someone with 3 years of experience, and solid stats. I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but IU is just trying to qualify for the tournament—they need all the help they can get.

The fan base hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being delusional or not. Your all’s consistently bad take about 2012 is the epitome of that.
 

Anon1712864371

All-American
Jun 14, 2010
25,095
6,346
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Did he just luck into 10 points a game? I was saying Indiana is not exactly in the position to lose players—even just a role player, let alone someone with 3 years of experience, and solid stats. I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but IU is just trying to qualify for the tournament—they need all the help they can get.

The fan base hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being delusional or not. Your all’s consistently bad take about 2012 is the epitome of that.
The fact that he played so many minutes is more the reason he scored 10 a game more than any offensive ability. Also, if you watched how Hunter and Race played the position as compared to Smith you would understand. Again, he played good defense when motivated but he often played uninspired as a player would if he felt he should be a 3 but was obviously a 4.
 
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JayCatz44

Heisman
May 14, 2003
20,482
15,540
113
IU won't fire him unless we absolutely tank it.....If we are as we were this year, he won't be extended. WHich is basically being fired. With what is returning, and what is coming in-----He has to win. And win big.

I don't get into predicitions. I think Miller is a good coach; a very good defensive coach. I feel he's had some bad luck at IU with key injuries, and the fact of the guys he inherited; just a flawed roster for what Miller wants to do. So, with that being said, my prediction so to speak is easy:

he had better win. This is HIS team....HIS kids. And its a good roster, with talent. No excuses. Time to put up, or pack up.
Well, he's not going to win big. He won't win the Big 10 or anything beyond that.
 

IUfanBorden

Heisman
Dec 11, 2011
53,775
52,300
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Did he just luck into 10 points a game? I was saying Indiana is not exactly in the position to lose players—even just a role player, let alone someone with 3 years of experience, and solid stats. I’m not saying he’s a superstar, but IU is just trying to qualify for the tournament—they need all the help they can get.

The fan base hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt when it comes to being delusional or not. Your all’s consistently bad take about 2012 is the epitome of that.
I mean , sure...You feel free to tell me about a kid who all you know about are his stats...Nevermind the fact I have watched the kid for 3 seasons. IU is in much better position to lose a kid like Smith, now, than they were 2 years ago...The two kids that IU will look to, are both former Top 60 recruits; Hunter being a Top 50 kid. Its not like Indiana will be trying to replace him with some walk-on's or something.

The only impact Smith leaving will have is depth. Dude was a cancer...Lazy AF on defense...Soft as butter. And couldn't shoot to save his life. Don't let the stats fool you my man....