WV Legislation thinking about removing CCW permit process...

[rog1187]

I'm not sure of the bill, but it seems like it would allow anyone to carry a concealed weapon without the permitting process. The Mon Sheriff is opposed due to safety citing situations of approaching cars that are pulled over or entering a home - I think those are bad examples to bolster his argument. If someone has a gun in a car and is going or willing to use it, does it matter if they have CCW permit...and I'm not sure how a CCW permit impacts entering a home.




Gun bill worries Monongalia County sheriff


BEN CONLEY

TheDPost.com




MORGANTOWN - "This isn't the wild west."

Monongalia County Sheriff Al Kisner said as much during the Wednesday, Feb. 25, County Commission meeting while discussing Senate Bill 347 - which removes the permitting process for carrying a concealed firearm.

While the conceal-and-carry permits have generated more than $300,000 for the Monongalia County Sheriff's Department and a total of nearly $500,000 in the past five years, Kisner said the financial impact isn't the biggest reason he feels the bill is bad for West Virginia.

"The analogy I use is, we don't give 15- or 16-year-olds a driver's license to operate a 4,000-pound vehicle on our state highways without some formal training, without some time with a licensed driver to learn how to do it properly," Kisner said. "We just don't put people in dangerous situations."

Kisner said the bill would reduce officer safety in nearly every situation, be it approaching a vehicle during a traffic stop or entering a home while responding to a call.

"We're talking about people with no training in handling firearms and how they might overreact in situations where someone with training might not," Kisner said. "That's the bottom line for me."

Speaking of bottom lines, Kisner handed out a breakdown of the revenue generated by concealed-carry permits since 2010. In five years, the sheriff's department used the $305,898 to purchase six new vehicles and fund other items and services.

Concealed-carry permits in Monongalia County also generated $67,095 for the Courthouse Facilities Improvements Fund and $93,430 for the West Virginia State Police in that five-year span.

"The funding, yes, it's going to be impactful, obviously it is. You see the numbers," Kisner said.

Commissioners Tom Bloom and Ed Hawkins voted to draft a letter to lawmakers expressing the commission's concerns about safety and revenue, and asked the sheriff to do the same.

SB 347 will be on the Senate floor for its second reading Thursday, Feb. 26, and possible passage Friday. It would then go to the House.

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

We need sweeping gun laws ........ excuse me, gun confiscation.

Because as we all know, there's no way criminals can get their hands on a hot piece.

Well, actually criminals can get their hands on illegal firearms faster than ISIS can get their hands on some gay-*** Toyota truck, but let's just play around in Saki and Harf's fantasy world for a little while longer.

Party line, people .............. party line.

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

I carry open and concealed. The very first thing I inform an officer when pulled over is that I hold a CCW and I have a firearm on my person and will comply with any instruction given. I am courteous, respectful of their position, and very accommodating. My driving record remains unblemished.

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

$700,000 Humvees have been purchased in mass by police departments ........

................ for $2,000 a pop.

Lost in the conspiratorial nonense of Alex Jones and their "Illuminati" talk and coffin liners and FEMA camps (well, that has a little bit of basis as these facilities actually do exist for all to see and in every state) is the fact our police have become exponentially militarized. Hell, our Commander in Chief announced to the world that he wanted this and his sycophants thought nothing of it.

It's astounding how much weaponry and machinery police departments have amassed.

For what exactly?

 

[rog1187]

The education requirement for CCW in WV is pretty low (attend an 8 hour class I think), so what makes it more safe to put a coat over top of a hosltered pistol?

 

[rog1187]

Re: $700,000 Humvees have been purchased in mass by police departments ........

Whatever happened to the National Police Force that Obama wanted?

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

I always assumed these purchases were part of the process.

But with any sensible citizen being uncomfortable seeing things that look like they are suddenly a cast member in "V for Vendetta", I can't see much good it would do the government to expand on plans they have to militarize the police.

They have purchased everything short of photon blasters. Why do the police, already armed with ample Swat-style M16's suddenly need such advanced vehicles and weapons? For Cliven Bundy and a bunch of ranchers? Local NRA meetings?

Come on ..... it's crazy.

 

[Fingon]

A lot of it comes out of the way DHS . . . .

has given out money for 'homeland security goals.' In reality, it leads to a lot of police department getting toys (that they won't refuse, because 'hey, free toys') that they are ill-trained and ill-equipped to actually use. That has become the case for fire departments as well. A friend of mine who works for the city of Alexandria, VA had a story about how their FD got not one, but TWO new 'fire boats,' who's use and actual utility in an emergency is still an open question.

But hey, free toys.

 

[Wolf J. Flywheel]

It would seem to make far more sense to 'deep-freeze' those vehicles .....

........... on military facilities for eventual re-use (especially in a world ripe with conflict) rather than simply chloroforming them and selling them to Joe Bob the former loyal reservist from Oxnard, Mississippi, or Chet the radical iron-fisted ex-Marine turned doughnut-eating gum shoe ..... and to the tune of almost 3/4 of a million dollar loss per pop.

Perhaps I would believe these were just innocuous transactions if public unrest drills weren't being held in metropolitan areas, complete with blackhawk helicopters and all the kevlar you can shake an Oliver Stone DVD at. Hell, those types of drills have been held at the Boy Scout Reserve here in the southern part of this state.

Am I missing something? What has prompted the sudden interest in those types of "preparations"?

'In' before we get the nervous "doomed" reply from one of the forum's less fortunate casuists.







This post was edited on 2/26 11:18 AM by Wolf J. Flywheel

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:
I carry open and concealed. The very first thing I inform an officer when pulled over is that I hold a CCW and I have a firearm on my person and will comply with any instruction given. I am courteous, respectful of their position, and very accommodating. My driving record remains unblemished.

I agree with DD (not usually). I have the permit, took the class and highly recommend it to anyone. They do go over the laws and a lot of WVians need some education regarding firearms, safety and the laws.

I would like to see things go the other way; require safety education for people to carry concealed OR open. It makes people stop for a few hours, become aware of laws, become aware of what goes through law enforcement officers minds as they enforce the laws and makes people think ahead of time what they will do if they are ever in a life-threatening situation with the ability to use lethal force. This isn't something to be taken lightly by passing out cards for anyone that wants one.

 

[rog1187]

I'd go a step further and require some sort of hands-on range time.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

why do you open carry?

I don't understand the need to do it

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Re: why do you open carry?

Those that don't get the concealed permit open carry.

Rog, range time was included in the training/class I had. In fact, one lady couldn't hit a large target and she stayed after everyone else left to get some one-on-one time with the instructor before he would give her the certificate.

 

[rog1187]

Re: why do you open carry?

Bought my wife a pistol because she wants to learn how to shoot...neither of us would even think of her carrying it unless/until she knows how to handle it...and even then I couldn't see her carrying (at this point)...folks against this bill think more people would carry...maybe/maybe not, I have a CCW and have yet to carry on my person when I've been out...I just don't think people will run out and start carrying (concealed) if this bill passes.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

Re: why do you open carry?


I am going to get a CCW but I don't intend to carry. I dont live far from a rough neighborhood and you never know. But In no case would I ever open carry. That seems to be inviting trouble

 

[rog1187]

Re: why do you open carry?

I don't think I would open carry either...the last time I saw something like that was last summer when I was shooting sporting clays on local range...there was a guy with a pistol strapped to his side out in the open...I wondered what kind of trouble he figured he'd find at a sporting clay range that he felt he needed to (open) carry...it was a smokin hot afternoon as well and the last thing I'd want is one more thing to lug around over the course.

 

[Mntneer]

Even with this law I'd still need my CCW to travel into VA and PA.

 

[Original Mountaineer1]

I saw a dude in a Target with a gun on his hip


judging by his body shape and appearance I doubt he was law enforcment

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: why do you open carry?

Originally posted by Original Mountaineer1:
I don't understand the need to do it

I think you have a misconception of what "open-carry" is. When going hunting, or in the woods period, I always have a sidearm on me and I carry 2 different mags. 1 has snake shot in it and the other has normal rounds. The normal rounds would be in case I don't get a clean kill on the target and I need to finish it up close quickly so it doesn't prolong a bad death for the animal. Both cases are more for my protection (I'm terrified of snakes and a deer's hooves are sharp as ****). Open carry in this instance is simply wearing the pistol in a holster on my leg. However, if I stop for gas or run in to grab some jerky and a drink its there because it's safer on my leg than leaving it in the truck. It's not like I'm going shopping at the mall with it on my hip. That's where the CCW comes into play.

With that said, I lived in AZ for a bit and it was not uncommon to see people out and about in town with it. That is a very gun friendly state and people didn't even give them a second look. I would also argue that open-carry doesn't invite trouble. It deters trouble. You are far more likely to be ignored due to presenting a "hard target" than if a criminal doesn't know you have a firearm and considers you a "soft target". Think of it like an open deterrent vs. calling it open carry.

 

[rog1187]

Re: Even with this law I'd still need my CCW to travel into VA and PA.

Yeah never thought about the reciprocity WV has with other States...probably still going to need the CCW if you carry while out of the State.

 

[mneilmont]

Just for the hell of it


What is the legal stance should two quickest draws decide to face off? The loser goes to the morgue and the winner goes before a judge with a case of self defense.

Never happen? I am sure someone would answer the challenge if the other has consumed enough liquid courage. Friday night dance with lady friend and someone keeps making an idiot of himself. Closing time and one ***** left for a few guys with too much too drink. Challenge and answer. What is provision in law for self defense. It's acomin'.

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Re: Just for the hell of it


One question that is always asked by law enforcement and prosecuting attorneys; was there a way to "escape" the danger posed?

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: Just for the hell of it

Originally posted by countryroads89:

One question that is always asked by law enforcement and prosecuting attorneys; was there a way to "escape" the danger posed?

Stand your ground come in to play with that?

 

[countryroads89_rivals]

Re: Just for the hell of it

Originally posted by DvlDog4WVU:

Originally posted by countryroads89:

One question that is always asked by law enforcement and prosecuting attorneys; was there a way to "escape" the danger posed?

Stand your ground come in to play with that?

Oops, sorry. I was talking WV. You're right, not applicable to some other states.

 

[Fingon]

I think this gets at . . .

the gist of most opposition. It's not that people think all gun owners are dangerous. It's just that from a pure probabilistic standpoint, more guns in more hands with fewer strings attached will inevitably lead to more tragic incidents; even if it's almost exclusively among the few bad apples in situations that get un-necessarily escalated (thinking in particular about the idiot who shot a guy in a movie theater over texting). Loosening restrictions further will only increase the incidence of such nonsense. Now granted, there is probably also some number of incidents that could be diffused by a gun owner stepping in--and perhaps those incidents are under-reported. I don't know how those numbers play out, but the early data on this issue seems to indicate that increased numbers of gun carriers has correlated with an increased number of accidents and incidents rather than decreased it. Maybe that will change with a larger sample size.

To me it just makes general common sense to require some sort of basic certification and not turn things into a wild west scenario, with any Tom, Dick, Harry, or drunk frat boy carrying pieces around town without certification. Any sane gun owner, who takes their safety and responsibilities seriously should have no problem submitting to a basic course and certification program--the same as is done for any driver of a car, equipment operator, etc.

 

[bornaneer]

"I inform an officer when pulled over" How often pulled over?**

wvu

 

[bornaneer]

dog, thanks for clarifying, I had pictured you as this...

 

[DvlDog4WVU]

Re: "I inform an officer when pulled over" How often pulled over?**

I drive a lot to and from WV. We have a cabin in the eastern part of the state and our families are from Beckley and Wayne. Try to get to one of the 3 locations once a month so I probably get pulled over once a year?

If you want to envision me, I'm your normal everyday average business man in a suit and tie.
Posted from Rivals Mobile