Wichita State

[texcane1982]

I haven't seen any posts on this "development", so thought I would do so. Seems like this is becoming a possibility and no longer speculation, substantial info finally leaking, and multiple services are reporting.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-ba...luation-to-join-american-athletic-conference/

http://www.kansas.com/sports/college/wichita-state/article135963693.html

http://www.midmajormadness.com/2017...ment-expansion-rumor-wichita-state-dayton-vcu


TX

 

[texcane1982]

I don't believe first rumors of this last fall referred to AD having discussed the matter with strong possibilty of a Presidents vote. If AD's are discussing then Aresco likely put this matter on the table for AD or President evaluation and approval? I've never heard or read with regards to league membership where Aresco was not the point man. My understanding of conference governance is when the matter reaches upper-levels it's on the table for a vote.

TX

 

[aTUfan_rivals]

Good at basketball and baseball.

Are they going to add football to their program?

 

[rabidTU]

I think that the timing and circumstances are right for this to happen now. Aresco has said he wants to push the AAC to become the P6 conference and this will boost that scenario. Wichita St is going to its 6th straight NCAA now and everything that the league wants they provide. They have averaged 30+ wins per year over the last 5 seasons (30 in 2013, 35 in 2014, 30 in 2015, 26 in 2016 and now 30 so far in 2017).. They are a much better program than several of the schools we have in the league right now and they've done that without the benefit of being in a well recognized conference. Its time.

 

[TU_BLA]

I think that the timing and circumstances are right for this to happen now. Aresco has said he wants to push the AAC to become the P6 conference and this will boost that scenario. Wichita St is going to its 6th straight NCAA now and everything that the league wants they provide. They have averaged 30+ wins per year over the last 5 seasons (30 in 2013, 35 in 2014, 30 in 2015, 26 in 2016 and now 30 so far in 2017).. They are a much better program than several of the schools we have in the league right now and they've done that without the benefit of being in a well recognized conference. Its time.

Unfortunately P6 is a football only reference so unless Wichita State is planning on adding football and being at a Nebraska level that is not the reason to add them. Wanting to consistently get 4 teams to the NCAA tournament is a reason to add them.

 

[rabidTU]

Correct. But I was referring to perception of the league as a P6 "in waiting" in FB and that MBB helps that perception. I agree we need a minimum of 4 teams in the dance.

The MVC is not perceived as above a "mid-major" conference which is reason enough for their move.

I don't see them adding FB for a long time. Its too hard to get a startup going - just takes too long. But with the Koch's money they could do it in short order. That won't happen imo.

 

[TU_BLA]

Correct. But I was referring to perception of the league as a P6 "in waiting" in FB and that MBB helps that perception. I agree we need a minimum of 4 teams in the dance.

The MVC is not perceived as above a "mid-major" conference which is reason enough for their move.

I don't see them adding FB for a long time. Its too hard to get a startup going - just takes too long. But with the Koch's money they could do it in short order. That won't happen imo.

I don't see them adding football either. If that were their path, they'd need to add at the FCS level now and start building and then making the full jump to the AAC. Adding football directly at the FBS level is insane. Even UCONN went the FCS route before moving the football team to the Big East. At that, Wichita State would have a tough go jumping into the recruiting business at this level unless they had both dynamic ridiculous facilities and a dynamic big name coach. Nebraksa, KState, OSU, and OU have a lot of the pull on the great athletes coming out of KC and Wichita right now and Wichita St. would have even more trouble jumping into TX and pulling quality recruits even over the likes of us, SMU, and Houston. Granted, if the Koch's want to throw that much money into it to build a winner right away they probably can accomplish most of the check list minus the actual winning games.

Remember, had Villanova taken the plunge to move from FCS to FBS in football, the Big East as a football conference probably still exists and SMU, Houston, et. al. including us, are probably not in it. And Villanova was a top 10 program in FCS with plenty of former FBS players who had transferred in, enough so to make them competitive, and they still didn't take the plunge. Look at the ones who made the jump to get into CUSA, Old Dominion and Charlotte..they still struggle. We'll see how Liberty does as they take that plunge...and it will also be interesting to see where Liberty ends up in terms of conference affiliation.

 

[rabidTU]

Just a little trivia. But unless there's been a change lately, did you know WSU has more ex-players in the Pro Football HOF than several schools in the AAC? That would be Bill Parcels. Cincy has zero. ECU has zero. And (I believe) Houston has zero. The only schools in the AAC with ex-players in the PFBHOF are Navy, SMU and of course TU.

 

[goldfan83]

I mean KU is pretty darn awful at football. I can't see WSU being better.

 

[texcane1982]

According to reports WSU did a study and talk about restarting football has gone quiet. Not likely to happen. IMO, WSU has shifted their focus raising funds to subsidize travel costs for their olympic sports in a larger conference vs starting football.

If WSU really wanted football they would have stay in MVC until football started at the very least breaking even at the FBS level. That would take years and the Greg Marshall window is closing the longer WSU stays in a conference were some years the auto-bid is the only ticket. WSU is trying to capitalize on the value of their basketball now, as it will never be higher as a member of the MVC.

TX

 

[ba11game]

It's seems to me that basketball only WSU is a perfect fit to balance football only Navy.

 

[UofMemphis]

According to reports WSU did a study and talk about restarting football has gone quiet. Not likely to happen. IMO, WSU has shifted their focus raising funds to subsidize travel costs for their olympic sports in a larger conference vs starting football.

If WSU really wanted football they would have stay in MVC until football started at the very least breaking even at the FBS level. That would take years and the Greg Marshall window is closing the longer WSU stays in a conference were some years the auto-bid is the only ticket. WSU is trying to capitalize on the value of their basketball now, as it will never be higher as a member of the MVC.

TX

the MVC football conference is totally separate from the MVC...it's a football-only conference...so WSU could stick all sports but football in the AAC, and play FCS football in the MVFC (since we don't offer FCS football)

as long as FCS is as high as they want to go...the AAC will work fine for them

 

[TU_BLA]

It's seems to me that basketball only WSU is a perfect fit to balance football only Navy.

It wouldn't be basketball only. Football only works for schools that play lower level everything else like Navy. Basketball only is not really a thing (see BYU & Hawaii). If Wichita State moves for basketball, it likely moves everything. I also don't see the AAC moving on Wichita State without baseball coming in too. Plus the MVC would probably say take your other sports and shove it if Wichita State were to pursue a basketball only move to the AAC. Just like we would tell UCONN to take their football team and shove it if they wanted to move basketball back to the Big East.

 

[rabidTU]

the MVC football conference is totally separate from the MVC...it's a football-only conference...so WSU could stick all sports but football in the AAC, and play FCS football in the MVFC (since we don't offer FCS football)

as long as FCS is as high as they want to go...the AAC will work fine for them

IMO a better move would be to go independent at least for a while to test the waters while keeping everything they now play in the AAC if the move happens soon.. But I don't see FB happening in the near future especially if they move to the AAC. Football as I understand it was a possibility only if they went to the MWC instead of the AAC because the MWC wanted an all sport member with that sport topping the list. But the MWC was always the second option if they couldn't get an AAC invite. Their fans want to join the AAC thats for sure and I think the feeling is mutual. No brainer.

 

[TU_BLA]

IMO a better move would be to go independent at least for a while to test the waters while keeping everything they now play in the AAC if the move happens soon.. But I don't see FB happening in the near future especially if they move to the AAC. Football as I understand it was a possibility only if they went to the MWC instead of the AAC because the MWC wanted an all sport member with that sport topping the list. But the MWC was always the second option if they couldn't get an AAC invite. Their fans want to join the AAC thats for sure and I think the feeling is mutual. No brainer.

Being able to go 2 6 team divisions in basketball, and us playing SMU, Houston, Wichita State, and Memphis 2x a year would be amazing (plus Tulane, but meh). It would also be an insane gauntlet. Add in you would still get 1 game vs Cincinnati and UCONN each season... I like the 12 team league schedule w/ divisions much better than the arbitrary round robin with 11.

 

[Gold*]

Are CInci and UCONN really going to be cool with playing UCF, So Florida, and ECU twice a year? And are the other programs in the league also going to be ok with that?

 

[Weatherdemon]

Are CInci and UCONN really going to be cool with playing UCF, So Florida, and ECU twice a year? And are the other programs in the league also going to be ok with that?

Cinci and UConn can suck it.
They have Temple too ;o)

Wichita State is nothing but a positive to AAC basketball.

 

[Gold*]

They are going to the ACC? Hell. That's a big step up.

I want them, too. Don't like the division format suggested.

 

[Weatherdemon]

They are going to the ACC? Hell. That's a big step up.

I want them, too. Don't like the division format suggested.

Yea, ummm... oops!

 

[Gold*]

We've in the WAC, with a conference tournament called the "WAC-off." Now we are in the "AAAACK."

I keep waiting for us to go to the "YAK."

 

[UofMemphis]

no reason to use divisions in hoops...just 12 teams.

UConn, Cincy, Memphis, Temple, WSU, SMU, Tulsa, Houston, etc....yeah, I'll take that hoops conference.

 

[rabidTU]

According to reports WSU did a study and talk about restarting football has gone quiet. Not likely to happen. IMO, WSU has shifted their focus raising funds to subsidize travel costs for their olympic sports in a larger conference vs starting football.

If WSU really wanted football they would have stay in MVC until football started at the very least breaking even at the FBS level. That would take years and the Greg Marshall window is closing the longer WSU stays in a conference were some years the auto-bid is the only ticket. WSU is trying to capitalize on the value of their basketball now, as it will never be higher as a member of the MVC.

TX

They could also go independent D-I for a while to test the waters.

BTW, The independent ranks are growing according to Phil Steele. UMASS is headed there next year to get out of the MAC. Also New Mexico St and Idaho are being dropped by the Sunbelt (I assume because of travel issues) and will evidently go independent. So there are several scheduling possibilities for a startup FB program needing to schedule others in the same boat. I'd certainly take a WSU startup on our schedule over another NC A@T or Nicholls ST. Besides, they'd bring fans here.

But if I were them, I'd stay away from CFB for a while and concentrate on what they already do well in a new conference.

 

[nevadanatural]

Idaho is dropping down to FCS, I don't know about NMSU.

 

[rabidTU]

Idaho is dropping down to FCS, I don't know about NMSU.

Bingo on Idaho. NMSt is evidently just going independent and I assume will schedule teams closer by.

 

[TU_BLA]

New article about the inevitability of Wichita State being added to the AAC.

 

[rabidTU]

From everything I read, there is virtually nothing standing in the way of this happening sooner more so than later. And that includes the school administrations, TV/media, fans at all the schools. The only push back is from the existing MVC schools and a very few die hard fans of the MVC. The MVC officials are even formulating a list of replacements as i understand. Its going to happen imo. A good time for the announcement might be at the Final Four. Otherwise it may be at the end of the school year or summer. The only question in my mind is how quickly will they be able to start playing in the AAC? Schedules? Contracts?

 

[nevadanatural]

I don't think scheduling would be a big issue. They are currently playing an MVC schedule that could be replaced with an American schedule. If the conferences play a different number of games they could probably buy out of or add a game or two if necessary.

 

[TU_BLA]

I don't think scheduling would be a big issue. They are currently playing an MVC schedule that could be replaced with an American schedule. If the conferences play a different number of games they could probably buy out of or add a game or two if necessary.

I'd be shocked if this went into place for next year. 2018-2019 more likely. Remember, it's more than just basketball. Soccer and whatever other Fall sports and then basketball, baseball, and other Spring sports. Most of the Fall schedules are likely in place and haven't been released just yet. Plus there's probably the requisite notice period and then the buyout for getting out of it just a bit sooner. I would be shocked if the MVC doesn't target SLU. The A-10 is a bear on SLUs travel budget in all of its sports and they fit very well with MVC footprint and type of school's. Wouldn't be surprised if ORU revisits as they were a candidate when Loyola Chicago was added. Also, perhaps even a UMKC who have to be looking to get the hell out of the WAC.

 

[rabidTU]

I'd be shocked if this went into place for next year. 2018-2019 more likely. Remember, it's more than just basketball. Soccer and whatever other Fall sports and then basketball, baseball, and other Spring sports. Most of the Fall schedules are likely in place and haven't been released just yet. Plus there's probably the requisite notice period and then the buyout for getting out of it just a bit sooner. I would be shocked if the MVC doesn't target SLU. The A-10 is a bear on SLUs travel budget in all of its sports and they fit very well with MVC footprint and type of school's. Wouldn't be surprised if ORU revisits as they were a candidate when Loyola Chicago was added. Also, perhaps even a UMKC who have to be looking to get the hell out of the WAC.

Yes. I think that is pretty close to what will occur. Good post.

Its funny to read what some of the WSU fans are saying about this. Some of them are so caught up in it they were talking about tearing down Koch Arena (10,500 cap) and building a bigger one on campus. To say they want to move away from the MVC is an understatement.

 

[mcane]

St. Louis would be the likely replacement, but this is an once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for ORU. The Summit has been a travel and fan-interest disaster. If ORU were in the MVC, it would change my view about the viability of the TU-ORU series; ORU could rotate into series just like Illinois State, Missouri State and Wichita State have done. And a home and home with a high mid-major like the MVC is better than one with a Summit member.

I'm 100% behind WSU in the MVC. The MVC fans sitting near us two years ago here were openly hoping for a move to the AAC.

 

[I.I.]

Yes. I think that is pretty close to what will occur. Good post.

Its funny to read what some of the WSU fans are saying about this. Some of them are so caught up in it they were talking about tearing down Koch Arena (10,500 cap) and building a bigger one on campus. To say they want to move away from the MVC is an understatement.

I remember we were thrilled to win our last MVC tournament and were hated by all for leaving.

 

[TU_BLA]

I remember we were thrilled to win our last MVC tournament and were hated by all for leaving.

We had so much fun at the tourney and just being plain arrogant towards Bradley and SIU fans who all felt we were running away from them. The fact that half the Valley fans could not understand that TU was leaving the MVC for the WAC in a move to keep football viable at the 1A (now FBS) level was just comical.

 

[mcane]

I really miss the Valley tournament and the weekend in St. Louis. Easy to get to and fun. So, far, it's been Conn, Orlando, Conn in the AAC. Based on what I saw this year, Conn fans are not so into a tournament, even when their team is winning. It's time to go back to Memphis. Tulsa may be a host in the future, but not until the team consistently performs.

 

[goldfan83]

St. Louis would be the likely replacement, but this is an once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for ORU. The Summit has been a travel and fan-interest disaster. If ORU were in the MVC, it would change my view about the viability of the TU-ORU series; ORU could rotate into series just like Illinois State, Missouri State and Wichita State have done. And a home and home with a high mid-major like the MVC is better than one with a Summit member.

I'm 100% behind WSU in the MVC. The MVC fans sitting near us two years ago here were openly hoping for a move to the AAC.

Viability? If we drop that game, we are total chumps.

 

[aTUfan_rivals]

It's seems to me that basketball only WSU is a perfect fit to balance football only Navy.

they also bring a very good baseball program.

 

[texcane1982]

St. Louis would be the likely replacement, but this is an once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for ORU. The Summit has been a travel and fan-interest disaster. If ORU were in the MVC, it would change my view about the viability of the TU-ORU series; ORU could rotate into series just like Illinois State, Missouri State and Wichita State have done. And a home and home with a high mid-major like the MVC is better than one with a Summit member.

I'm 100% behind WSU in the MVC. The MVC fans sitting near us two years ago here were openly hoping for a move to the AAC.

Why do you think SLU is likely to the MVC? Unless the are in dire straits regarding travel, moving from the A-10 to the MVC would be a significant downgrade. I believe SLU is eyeing the Big East, if and when expansion occurs.

As for replacing WSU, I suppose it will come down to private vs public. If they look private, schools like Valpo or Detroit are most likely, if they go public Murray State, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Omaha are most likely. My prediction is Valpo or Detroit. Valpo offers a better pedigree, but Detroit offers a new market. The MVC certainly does not need another school from Illinois. Northern Kentucky (Cincy market) is a very intriguing option, but their still an infanct in DI and just moved to the Horizon.

TX

 

[goldfan83]

Why do you think SLU is likely to the MVC? Unless the are in dire straits regarding travel, moving from the A-10 to the MVC would be a significant downgrade. I believe SLU is eyeing the Big East, if and when expansion occurs.

As for replacing WSU, I suppose it will come down to private vs public. If they look private, schools like Valpo or Detroit are most likely, if they go public Murray State, North Dakota, South Dakota, or Omaha are most likely. My prediction is Valpo or Detroit. Valpo offers a better pedigree, but Detroit offers a new market. The MVC certainly does not need another school from Illinois. Northern Kentucky (Cincy market) is a very intriguing option, but their still an infanct in DI and just moved to the Horizon.

TX

I predict none of those schools you mentioned.

 

[rabidTU]

I predict none of those schools you mentioned.

This may be ORU's best shot to upgrade into a better league whenever WSU gets the invite. They have enough history in MBB, baseball as well as the facilities to come closest at replacing WSU in the MVC as anyone available. They obviously aren't as good as WSU, but they are as good as Loyola, Drake, Evansville and Missouri St. right now. They also fit in geographically into that conference.

 

[goldfan83]

This may be ORU's best shot to upgrade into a better league whenever WSU gets the invite. They have enough history in MBB, baseball as well as the facilities to come closest at replacing WSU in the MVC as anyone available. They obviously aren't as good as WSU, but they are as good as Loyola, Drake, Evansville and Missouri St. right now. They also fit in geographically into that conference.

They should drop to D2 or better yet just close stakes sell or rent the facilities and fill the latest preachers packers.

 

[TU 1978]

ORU is dead athletically and as an 'educational' institution. Better to use the land as an amusement park called TV Preacherland.