Wichita State

[TU_BLA]

This is how you show a coach you want him to stay....just saying TU may need to pony up for their HCs, especially football, if they want them to stick around...it can be done.

http://shockerhoops.net/index.php/2015/10/05/gregg-marshalls-contract-details-released/

 

[seniorgolfer]

This is how you show a coach you want him to stay....just saying TU may need to pony up for their HCs, especially football, if they want them to stick around...it can be done.

http://shockerhoops.net/index.php/2015/10/05/gregg-marshalls-contract-details-released/

As to Haith and Montgomery, if Montgomery proves out, he might be the harder of
the two to hold.....Before he will be highly sought, however, he will have to show
that he can both recruit and coach....He has a ways to go yet....

As to Haith, I think he has proven he can coach....I'm not sure he has proven he
can recruit to a level that will be successful in the AAC.....If he does, you are right...
We'll have to get out the check book....

 

[TU_BLA]

As to Haith and Montgomery, if Montgomery proves out, he might be the harder of
the two to hold.....Before he will be highly sought, however, he will have to show
that he can both recruit and coach....He has a ways to go yet....

As to Haith, I think he has proven he can coach....I'm not sure he has proven he
can recruit to a level that will be successful in the AAC.....If he does, you are right...
We'll have to get out the check book....

My reference is more to Montgomery. I think he will be highly sought in 2-3 years. I like what he has done with recruiting so far and think that his 3rd season this team will be ready to explode. Donors better be ready. My worry is Texas and the 'Horns getting an itchy trigger finger on Strong. I think Monty and Herman would be on a shortlist right behind Saban and TG (ugh). I keep hearing reports that Texas could have had Saban and Peterson jacked the whole thing up. TG will accept the job before being offered.

On Haith, I think we have some more time. Probably 3 more years to see how his 2016 recruiting class starts panning out. He will need to prove he can win with his own players.

 

[seniorgolfer]

Amen to that last papagraph.....I think that's exactly right....And, at the AAC level (or
above), there is no middle ground.....Either you win big with your own players, or the
powers that be don't consider it winning......There's no DW "20 win seasons" with
8 or 9 coming against the directional schools out of Mo. and La..............

As you said in that last para., the 2016 class will be critical if we are to continue to be
noteworthy in the AAC.....I think he has gotten commitments from a couple of goodun's,
and we need to add at least two (if not three) more.......

 

[TU 1978]

All Wichita has is basketball for major sports. It's easier to come up with a big budget when you have one sport.

 

[rabidTU]

They won the national championship in baseball in 1989 - there is no baseball team currently in our league that has done that - in the sport of baseball. However its not really a major sport like FB. I agree with that.

 

[JesseTU]

I agree you have to pay to keep someone...

However, its an arms race. An arms race "we" can't win against "them." Also, many coaches will ditch their small loyal school for a modest raise in order to coach at a "big time" school. Screwed either way.

 

[Novocaine]

In the grand scheme of conference realignment and keeping up with our Joneses, basketball means very little, if anything. Football drives the boat.

 

[rabidTU]

Absolutely correct on FB driving the boat, but the AAC still needs a basketball only school to keep the west balanced and I don't see anyone out there that is anywhere close to WSU right now. This is becoming a very strong FB conference and is a strong MBB/WBB league, but you're never too strong. After FB season we don't want the the momentum of FB to end - just get bigger/better. The league we're in may be the best we've ever been in. We need to make sure it stays that way. The stronger we are, the less chance we have of programs leaving it. IMO

 

[TU Hurricane Warning]

Absolutely correct on FB driving the boat, but the AAC still needs a basketball only school to keep the west balanced and I don't see anyone out there that is anywhere close to WSU right now. This is becoming a very strong FB conference and is a strong MBB/WBB league, but you're never too strong. After FB season we don't want the the momentum of FB to end - just get bigger/better. The league we're in may be the best we've ever been in. We need to make sure it stays that way. The stronger we are, the less chance we have of programs leaving it. IMO

+1

 

[TU_BLA]

+1

This might be something WSU would consider now that the MVC is weaker after Creighton left and seemingly no one else in the league able to pick up that slack. WSU hasn't been terribly pushed the last 2 seasons in league play. Since Navy is football only, I wonder if AAC would look at WSU for basketball and all other sports except football...would make sense and would result in a little more $$$ and exposure for WSU. Interesting.

 

[rabidTU]

Just think of a league with these MBB teams in it.

!. UCONN
2. Cincinnati
3. Temple
4. Memphis
5. SMU
6. Houston
7. Tulsa
8. Wichita St

This league would go toe to toe with any in the nation. IMO

BTW WSU has a strong WBB program too.

From a local perspective, they would become an even greater rival of ours. I think they are waiting for the call from the AAC. IMO the only thing holding it up are the eastern teams wanting another eastern team added and the commish probably afraid to act right now.

BTW its reported that Missouri St wants out of the Valley (to play DI FB) which would further isolate WSU geographically.

 

[Tulsafanzz]

This might be something WSU would consider now that the MVC is weaker after Creighton left and seemingly no one else in the league able to pick up that slack. WSU hasn't been terribly pushed the last 2 seasons in league play. Since Navy is football only, I wonder if AAC would look at WSU for basketball and all other sports except football...would make sense and would result in a little more $$$ and exposure for WSU. Interesting.

Something WSU might consider ?! WSU would jump immediately if asked. Right now, AAC isn't inviting anyone unless TV guys promise more $ per school.

 

[rabidTU]

Something WSU might consider ?! WSU would jump immediately if asked. Right now, AAC isn't inviting anyone unless TV guys promise more $ per school.

IMO if WSU joined us in MBB/WBB, the TV money would/should increase and as I understand it, the league recently signed a TV contract for baseball which is another reason for them to be part of the AAC. They are strong in that sport too. Its not just about geography.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I can't believe that ESPN wouldn't give at least a little bump in money to each school to be renegotiated later, if they were pushed a little bit. Would immediately mix things up at the top of the league in basketball.

 

[TU_BLA]

I can't believe that ESPN wouldn't give at least a little bump in money to each school to be renegotiated later, if they were pushed a little bit. Would immediately mix things up at the top of the league in basketball.

CBS too. Doesn't CBS still own the tournament championship game for the AAC?

 

[goldfan83]

We should try to go get creighton too.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

I have a feeling Creighton is very comfortable in the Big East. Much more than Wichita St is in the MVC. I think Creighton officials would look at u in puzzlement, like u were crazy for even suggesting it.

 

[rabidTU]

There are a vast number of reasons why WSU would jump on the AAC bandwagon. Money, recognition, more TV time, better basketball seeds, better trips, better schools at the end of those trips, nice cities to play in, a bigger and better and more well known conference of teams at their level. On and on. The Valley is not the same league it used to be and WSU knows its imploding. When Creighton left, some of the fans even mentioned ORU as a replacement as well as UMKC. I'm sure Loyola is a good school, but its not Creighton and the Valley doesn't have many options. Any fan in Wichita would rather travel to Dallas, Memphis, Tulsa, Houston or NO than Terra Haute, Normal, Carbondale or Cedar Falls. No brainer. They just need to be asked.

 

[TU_BLA]

You left off Springfield,MO and Evansville,IN

 

[TU_BLA]

And outside of Greenville,NC, Wichita would become the next worst trip in the conference.

 

[seniorgolfer]

And outside of Greenville,NC, Wichita would become the next worst trip in the conference.

I lived in the Wichita Suburb of Derby for 5 years back in the 80's....Wichita is
a crappy place with crappier weather...Not the place I would pick to visit....

However, great people, and a GREAT BB town.....They love and support their
Shocks.....

 

[TU_BLA]

I don't doubt they support WSU...there's not much else going on there.

 

[rabidTU]

Ok, I'm convinced. We don't want a team/program in our conference that has unlimited resources and is the best team in a basketball crazy state and that is currently in the top 10/20 and fits the footprint of the league we are in and would immediately make the AAC a much better, more high profile conference and is an easy drive for our fans to make in every sport we compete in (except FB of course). Even though there is a vacancy they could fill immediately they should just be left uninvited. We should wait for the Big 12 to implode so we can invite those Sooners, Longhorns or Cowboys to fill that vacancy. I'm on board!

 

[ImaCanefan]

Finally you got it. Took long enough.

 

[rabidTU]

I think after thinking about it for a long thinking time, I decided to rethink it over and think now I was right in the first place. We need another team in the AAC west and it should be WSU. But I'm still thinking about it and may switch back at some future point in time.

 

[JesseTU]

The legacy AAC schools are wary of adding basketball only members. Apparently they had a bad experience with it recently. Not that it is insurmountable or that WSU tips the scales like it was before, but it would be brought up in any serious discussion.

 

[TU_BLA]

The legacy AAC schools are wary of adding basketball only members. Apparently they had a bad experience with it recently. Not that it is insurmountable or that WSU tips the scales like it was before, but it would be brought up in any serious discussion.

But it went backwards before. The Big East was really a basketball only conference. Once Dave Gavitt left, Pitt, Boston College, and Syracuse needed some football schools in because the landscape of college football dictated you needed to belong to a conference. Penn St was set to join then bailed, and Miami came on board and the downfall began, albeit slowly. ESPNs 30 for 30 Requiem for the Big East tells the story. The commissioner before Aresco screwed the pooch when he advised members to hold out for more than $15M per school per year....that is when BC, Miami, and VaTech left and Syracuse and Pitt followed soon after.

Point is adding 1 basketball school doesn't tip anything here unless WSU wanted Longhorn status.

 

[rabidTU]

In the end its all about recognition and being seeded in the NCAA. The so called power conferences always get the best seeds because they say they play in the best leagues with the toughest schedules. Any time you can strengthen the conference you're in, you do it for that reason. IMO

 

[PhoggyBottom]

I bet a lot of conferences would have been big on adding DePaul in the 1970's and early 1980's or Loyola Marymount in the late 1980's. In the twenty years from 1990 to 2009, Wichita State went 283-315. How happy would you be with the addition of WSU if they return to a similar level once Baker and VanVleet are gone? If you are going to add a non-football school, I would probably suggest that you make them do it for more than a five year stretch before you commit to them.

 

[TU_BLA]

They were pretty successful under Turgeon as well...without what he did he doesn't get to move to A&M and then Maryland. And all programs go through the lulls at some point. You wouldn't advocate not taking Indiana if they wanted in because they have been pretty mediocre save for 1 or 2 years since they fired Knight, would you?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

It's a gamble, but u take the chance of someone else jumping on that bandwagon if u wait. But you have a better history with Wichita St. This is not the only decent period for Wichita St. in their history. Also this period in basketball is different than before. You have more schools than before, who get good, and retain their coaches beyond the initial point of being good.(Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Wichita St., Creighton) These programs have been more capable of building themselves into a longer term power than before for these reasons.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

It's a gamble, but u take the chance of someone else jumping on that bandwagon if u wait. But you have a better history with Wichita St. This is not the only decent period for Wichita St. in their history. Also this period in basketball is different than before. You have more schools than before, who get good, and retain their coaches beyond the initial point of being good.(Gonzaga, VCU, Butler, Wichita St., Creighton) These programs have been more capable of building themselves into a longer term power than before for these reasons.

Gonzaga and Butler have done it with more than one coach and more than one group of players. The jury is out on whether VCU can maintain without Smart and whether Creighton will be any good without Doug McDermott. I would want to see WSU without Baker and VanVleet before I would commit. With regard to WSU's history, they have been to the NCAA's only 12 times since 1950. They went four times in the Smithson/Fogler era (1980 to 1989) and five times in the Turgeon/Marshall era (including last four in a row). Otherwise, they were bad in the 1960's, 1970's and 1990's and mediocre in the first decade of the 2000's. It is a big gamble to bring them in now with a relatively short history of success when they bring absolutely nothing to the table (no football and no television share) if they fall back to mediocrity.

 

[rabidTU]

The difference now is they have a major benefactor worth $100 billion that just gave more money to upgrade their obviously good facilities/arena and who recently contributed to increase the pay of their coach they wanted to keep. WSU is strong in just about every sport they play. They should stay that way for a long time. They sell out every MBB game and have a waiting list. They are going to increase the size of Koch arena which already seats 10,500.

More good AAC basketball teams means a stronger league and less talk about some of the other teams in our league jumping ship. It balances the league and replaces Navy football in all other sports.

The Valley is slowly becoming irrelevant. The reports are that WSU anticipates leaving the MVC and might have to go to the MWC, but would prefer the AAC because of rivals and geography. The AAC needs to even the league between east and west. Its a no brainer.

BTW Some of the negatives on this thread could be said about any expansion team, but if we (AAC) expand it needs to be because of geography, rivals, history, success, perception by NCAA/TV and notoriety of the expansion member/candidate.

IMO

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Phoggy, with that attitude/viewpoint, one could easily dismiss TU's basketball history. I'm willing to say that TU, SMU, Houston, Memphis, UCF, & East Carolina have upped their commitment financial and otherwise with the jump to the big east, and at the present time it seems to have paid immediate dividends. Wichita St joining us and continuing to do the same, while a gamble. would likely have the same benefits for both the conference and Wichita St's athletics program.

 

[PhoggyBottom]

Phoggy, with that attitude/viewpoint, one could easily dismiss TU's basketball history. I'm willing to say that TU, SMU, Houston, Memphis, UCF, & East Carolina have upped their commitment financial and otherwise with the jump to the big east, and at the present time it seems to have paid immediate dividends. Wichita St joining us and continuing to do the same, while a gamble. would likely have the same benefits for both the conference and Wichita St's athletics program.

TU had a much longer sustained run of excellence than WSU has ever had. WSU may very well turn into a Gonzaga of the midwest. Or, they could have caught lightning in a bottle with Early, VanVleet and Baker and when all those guys are gone they may take a significant step back. I would make them sustain it through more than one generation of talent before the conference commits to them.

 

[rabidTU]

But once again, that could be said of any program in the country - that they can't sustain the momentum they have achieved. But I think if you weigh the present evidence, WSU is headed in the right direction and has the resources to sustain it, especially if they get out of the sinking conference they are in. Not long ago, we were concerned that CUSA was just not the right fit for us anymore and that it would probably be best to look elsewhere. The result was our entry in a conference that now is probably the best we've ever been in. If we'd stayed in the Valley, we'd probably be just like Drake right now instead of a program that has a very good history and is growing better every day and every year. I do know one thing, the AAC is a league that is quickly becoming recognized as P5 ready and WSU would help that perception even more. Its not about comparing WSU to TU its about seeds, money, rivals and notoriety. imo

 

[Veritas5]

Indeed. That Tulsa WNBA team really cuts into the discretionary income that should be going to the Univ of Tulsa.

Is there really a huge difference between entertainment in Tulsa versus Wichita?

Tulsa and WSU have had a good rivalry. Would be great to see them in the same conference. Short road trips for both schools.

 

[Gmoney4WW]

Local self-flagellating troll or visiting Wichita St fan?

 

[Gmoney4WW]

,,,or self flatulating?