Why losing JY hurts

RUz91

All-Conference
Jan 24, 2011
14,070
4,624
113
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
 

RUfanSinceAnderson

All-Conference
Jan 31, 2006
7,869
3,996
85
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
Agree. He was hot and cold. But he could create his own shot.
 
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RUJMM78

Heisman
Jul 25, 2001
26,217
12,477
113
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
Young also will be missed because of his defense ,Far too many players played poor defense allowing Lehigh easy baskets .
 

RUsojo

Heisman
Dec 17, 2010
29,437
28,581
113
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
Pike ditched JY.

But yeah, I can’t believe people argued against JY all season and off-season. Kid is a LION that this team would be so so much better off with. Don’t know if there is a board in the country outside looking in that would argue otherwise yet we have some unique apples here

Not that it matters but seems like everyone is coming around
 
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KnightTerrors

All-Conference
Dec 23, 2015
1,035
2,988
82
Loved JY but losing Myles is 10x more painful. Our front court depth is going to be our biggest weakness in conference play. If we have Myles tonight that center that played well early wouldnt have scored a point and wed have done much better on the boards.
 
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goru7

All-American
Dec 12, 2005
6,432
7,710
113
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
Creating offense was not the problem at all. Making easy 4-8 foot shots and missing open threes was the issue. We got almost anything we wanted using our size advantage
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
2 things stood out to me defensively

1. Lehigh had no problem initiating offense from the top of the 3 point line. Caleb, or anyone else, was not a factor disrupting the primary ball handler. On a few occasions Knight was motioning for Caleb to get up on his man.

2. None of our guards were able to stay in front of their men on penetration

What this team lacks in lateral quickness it makes up in length. Most times when we got beat off the dribble Lehigh was not able to take advantage as they were really bothered by our length.

What concerns me going in to B1G play or even at Depaul on Thursday is that it appears we have 1 shot blocking rim protecting big and he cant get in to foul trouble.

The Oregon and St. John's guy were definitely missed on the defensive end.
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,462
38,758
113
It is not missing the player as much as you are missing the fact he is a 6th year college player and 24 years old. Irregardless of the erratic play, any 23 or 24 year old player is going to have a talent advantage over most 19, 20 or 21 year players.

The stats actually don't show he is missed because the PPG vs Lehigh isn't drastically different unless you are counting cheap baskets against inferior opponents as valuable.

Playing Lehigh does not show you are missing a player. Young is simply not as good of a player, if you eliminate easy baskets and he is required to navigate a half court offense......the fan base simply cannot distinguish actual basketball vs athletic ability......Jacob is the best athlete since Corey Sanders but was not anywhere near the player that Sanders was.

If you are missing an athletic defender, you are better off with Mathis than Young as a defender.

Fans are going to have to exercise patience in allowing the players like Mag and Jaden Jones to develop and look beyond just this season. I am very happy or more willing to watch Jaden Jones learn shoot and develop, vs watching Jacob Young for a 3rd year. Once 2022-23 rolls around, what answers do the RU fans have as a plan of development for 2022-23, if Jaden Jones gets no playing time, watching Jacob Young chuck up shots and turn the ball over??

The bottom line is Aundre Hyatt and Jaden Jones are better players for this year and next year than the short term gains or erratic play of Jacob Young and Montez Mathis. Smart basketball people understand that 70% production coming from Jaden Jones, is much more important than 100% of inconsistent Jacob Young......I think Hyatt is already a more effective player than Mathis, just not as explosive in transition....B1G basketball really doesn't offer consistent opportunities to score in transition, which is where Hyatt exceeds Mathis or should get close to Jacob Young production.

Hyatt vs Jacob Young past production
Jaden Jones vs Montez Mathis past production.
 

YoucancallmeRay

All-Conference
Nov 3, 2015
1,790
1,905
113
So there's been a lot of discussion about the loss of JY and here's my take. Yes he ditched us so screw him, but losing a player like him who creates offense is going to be detrimental to this year's team. We don't have anyone on the roster that could create offense like him and tonight's game was super telling.
BS. We've played one game, one. How about waiting to see how the team develops? And the obsession with JY is ridiculous. Seems like a lot of posters have bought into the criticism of Pike which this JY obsession more than implies.
 

RUInsanityToo

All-American
May 5, 2006
9,527
9,833
113
The nature of following college sports is that you lose guys.....whether it's to the NBA, Graduation or Transfer. JY was afforded the luxury of a 6th year due to the COVID extended eligibility rules. He was also afforded the luxury of taking advantage of the recent transfer/portal player optionality.

You have to ask yourself - beyond any positive impact of JY being on RU's roster this year - are their any negative impacts to other player development and potential transfers, team performance and/or team dynamic? Seems to me that people are only interested in looking to confirm their own pre-existing bias and filtering out everything else.

It would be nice to imagine only the good things that could happen with JY still on the roster. Ultimately however, he chose to move on......but apparently some fans have been unable to take that similar "move on" route and/or want to use his leaving to continue to advance their own personal negative agenda (seemingly with the most vitriol expressed towards Pike).
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
It is not missing the player as much as you are missing the fact he is a 6th year college player and 24 years old. Irregardless of the erratic play, any 23 or 24 year old player is going to have a talent advantage over most 19, 20 or 21 year players.

The stats actually don't show he is missed because the PPG vs Lehigh isn't drastically different unless you are counting cheap baskets against inferior opponents as valuable.

Playing Lehigh does not show you are missing a player. Young is simply not as good of a player, if you eliminate easy baskets and he is required to navigate a half court offense......the fan base simply cannot distinguish actual basketball vs athletic ability......Jacob is the best athlete since Corey Sanders but was not anywhere near the player that Sanders was.

If you are missing an athletic defender, you are better off with Mathis than Young as a defender.

Fans are going to have to exercise patience in allowing the players like Mag and Jaden Jones to develop and look beyond just this season. I am very happy or more willing to watch Jaden Jones learn shoot and develop, vs watching Jacob Young for a 3rd year. Once 2022-23 rolls around, what answers do the RU fans have as a plan of development for 2022-23, if Jaden Jones gets no playing time, watching Jacob Young chuck up shots and turn the ball over??

The bottom line is Aundre Hyatt and Jaden Jones are better players for this year and next year than the short term gains or erratic play of Jacob Young and Montez Mathis. Smart basketball people understand that 70% production coming from Jaden Jones, is much more important than 100% of inconsistent Jacob Young......I think Hyatt is already a more effective player than Mathis, just not as explosive in transition....B1G basketball really doesn't offer consistent opportunities to score in transition, which is where Hyatt exceeds Mathis or should get close to Jacob Young production.

Hyatt vs Jacob Young past production
Jaden Jones vs Montez Mathis past production.
 

RUPete

Heisman
Feb 5, 2003
26,841
16,113
0
Pike ditched JY.

But yeah, I can’t believe people argued against JY all season and off-season. Kid is a LION that this team would be so so much better off with. Don’t know if there is a board in the country outside looking in that would argue otherwise yet we have some unique apples here

Not that it matters but seems like everyone is coming around
Again, no one had an inclination to "argue against JY" during the offseason. Most wished him well and said they enjoyed watching him play. Responses were in reaction to the constant fanboy threads posted for no reason about a player who was no longer here. Enough already. He's long gone and was probably never coming back anyway.
 

RUDiddy777

Heisman
Feb 26, 2015
33,688
38,156
113
No doubt a huge loss. His defense alone will me missed. Throw in his ability to create something and he is a guy you’d love to have.

Watching him on defense was almost as much fun as watching on offense. Got to see him battle Sampson at the Garden, unreal to watch the speed and quickness up close.
 
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Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
If I picked one play for every player, we would be here all day......it's a 30 game season
You drive me absolute crazy with your over the top everything is OK. Also you are being very negative if this is only a 30 game season 😀

Losing Jacob Young and Myles Johnson hurt a ton. It is OK to say that. I get your points about offense having a higher ceiling without them. I understand and 100% acknowledge that Cliff's development is better with no Myles. You have to admit last night looked like the team you would have wondered about last year if Myles and Jacob were hurt.

Yes it is only 1/3X of the season. I know I have to be patient.
 

FIJI'83

All-Conference
Jul 7, 2008
3,169
3,739
66
JY was quick and fast. Our guards were repeatedly being beaten off the dribble last night by not elite guards. Also, our half court game on offense is a bit slow and lumbering because of slow guard play.

BTW, Ralph Agee’s play was quite disappointing. No energy and just stood still in same place during sets and picked up reach-in fouls. Hope it’s just an adjustment period for him.
 

NewJerseyHawk

Heisman
Jan 11, 2007
24,462
38,758
113
Here's reality for those with revisionist history.

RU doesn't dance unless Geo saves RU at Indiana, after a 5 game losing streak....

RU doesn't potentially win or dance by winning at Indiana without benching Young and Mathis AND Myles Johnson with an enormous offensive rebound and steal within the last 2 minutes of that game.

RU doesn't dance unless RHJ goes bananas at Maryland in December and at home vs Illinois.

RU doesn't dance unless Mathis drains 4 or 5 3s vs Purdue at home, the game which Harper missed with his ankle.

RU doesn't advance in the NCAAs, without Caleb McConnell getting 13 and 10 vs Clemson.

The point of this post is that basketball is a TEAM sport, not an individual accounting of athletic ability ....

Jacob made the play vs Minnesota, but RU was still going to make the NCAAs if they lost that game and went 1-1 in the B1G by beating Indiana a 3rd time and losing to Illinois. It was an all time play by Jacob and he sealed the deal so the B1G tournament was not needed.

But I account for a full season of ups and downs....if you choose to only highlight the positives, you can certainly do that. It is counterproductive to reality to ignore others and their contributions as if they didn't happen, while trying to showcase Jacob Young at the same time. It's not reality......
 
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RUInsanityToo

All-American
May 5, 2006
9,527
9,833
113
You drive me absolute crazy with your over the top everything is OK. Also you are being very negative if this is only a 30 game season 😀

Losing Jacob Young and Myles Johnson hurt a ton. It is OK to say that. I get your points about offense having a higher ceiling without them. I understand and 100% acknowledge that Cliff's development is better with no Myles. You have to admit last night looked like the team you would have wondered about last year if Myles and Jacob were hurt.

Yes it is only 1/3X of the season. I know I have to be patient.

Jacob Young and Myles Johnson are no longer with the team and never will play for RU again. Primarily focusing backwards on departures seems a curious way to root for a college program where it's generally a revolving door. Call me silly - but playing the "what-if" scenarios with players who will not be here seems counter productive when compared to playing the "what-if" scenarios with players who are on the roster (or even prospectively on the future roster).
 

Ru-baby

All-Conference
Aug 11, 2001
6,671
3,065
66
JY was a great shot in the arm at times--and at times an out of control player. Perhaps one who affected chemistry. No argument he was an elite defender.

But Myles was/is the one who will hurt most over the season. On a night he wasnt getting fouls he could change the game by himself.

Dont get the handwringing over JY. He was excellent and a key contributor. He had 6 years of college and chose to have 3 schools. Why play the what if---it is what it is and this team will be what it is with its components.
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
Here's reality for those with revisionist history.

RU doesn't dance unless Geo saves RU at Indiana, after a 5 game losing streak....

RU doesn't potentially win or dance by winning at Indiana without benching Young and Mathis AND Myles Johnson with an enormous offensive rebound and steal within the last 2 minutes of that game.

RU doesn't dance unless RHJ goes bananas at Maryland in December and at home vs Illinois.

RU doesn't dance unless Mathis drains 4 or 5 3s vs Purdue at home, the game which Harper missed with his ankle.

RU doesn't advance in the NCAAs, without Caleb McConnell getting 13 and 10 vs Clemson.

The point of this post is that basketball is a TEAM sport, not an individual accounting of athletic ability ....

Jacob made the play vs Minnesota, but RU was still going to make the NCAAs if they lost that game and went 1-1 in the B1G by beating Indiana a 3rd time and losing to Illinois. It was an all time play by Jacob and he sealed the deal so the B1G tournament was not needed.

But I account for a full season of ups and downs....if you choose to only highlight the positives, you can certainly do that. It is counterproductive to reality to ignore others and their contributions as if they didn't happen, while trying to showcase Jacob Young at the same time. It's not reality......
You want to get crazy......

James Townsend drops the ball that probably caught gives RU a BCS bowl
Myles Johnson misses a bunny that would have clinched a spot in Sweet 16

Where does Geo fit in all of this? What happens if we don't win against Minnesota? There would be one play that would be viewed (correctly or incorrectly) as the play that kept Rutgers from finally getting to the dance.

What play was that?
 

Greene Rice FIG

Heisman
Dec 30, 2005
40,437
23,613
0
Jacob Young and Myles Johnson are no longer with the team and never will play for RU again. Primarily focusing backwards on departures seems a curious way to root for a college program where it's generally a revolving door. Call me silly - but playing the "what-if" scenarios with players who will not be here seems counter productive when compared to playing the "what-if" scenarios with players who are on the roster (or even prospectively on the future roster).
You are 100% right. NJH has my goat and won't give it back to me. He started it. 😀
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
51,272
0
The one thing that springs to mind about JY was his ability to really dominate in a full court press. Due to speed and good instincts. You can't coach speed and instincts.

But he's gone now. So we move on.
 

Knights 1212

All-American
Sep 9, 2003
27,558
8,491
113
JY chose to leave on his own and announced within 15 minutes after our loss to Houston on twitter or instagram. He could have helped us this season but he decided he thought it was best for him to leave. Give it a rest already. We should just move on. I root for the guys who wear our Rutgers uniform. We have only played one game of a very long season and some of you are on the ledge and will be pounding the drum about JY leaving all season. He played more minutes I believe than anyone. He decided he didn't want to stay.
 

BoogieKnight

Heisman
Oct 15, 2007
70,882
17,351
82
Yes quick and yes a great on the ball defender.

However, was not a true PG. pike’s biggest miss in recruiting to me is still not having a true PG on this roster who can break down a defense and create for others. JY did it at times but he was too sloppy with the ball. Again, not a true point.
 

Luvscarletknights

All-Conference
Apr 1, 2018
3,901
4,674
113
Why do you all waste so much energy talking about players that are gone? He left.... who cares. Our team is the one court.

They will be fine. Shooting was not good but a lot of shots were in and out. Defense improved second half.
 
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jerzeyguy

All-Conference
May 18, 2008
3,517
2,600
0
The real reason why JY leaving hurts- is bc we haven't been recruiting replaceable talent.. Just wait until next yr. Losing Geo & Ron will probably hurt even more