What does Recruiting look like moving forward?

jamsession3

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As a message board, we have been very pleased with the top tier HS studs coming to Duke. Regardless if they were one and done or stayed awhile the results have been good. Does Duke continue to prioritize the top 25 players or look for players that may stay a while. Do Duke prioritize two to three top tier transfers that can produce immediately?

This season has been an eye - opening reality.
 
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sheyduke

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The way I see it is like this .

As long as Duke continues to get five stars , top tier transfers aren’t coming to Duke unless they simply have no one at their respected position.

I like what Jon is doing . He’s got Blakes and Schutt along with Reeves that will stay a couple years and still going hard after the top players in the country . You add this in with a Theo Johns or Ryan Young upper class men transfer that can come off the bench and we are in good shape .

It’s getting the players you recruit as multi year players to buy in that is key .
 
Oct 6, 2022
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As a message board, we have been very pleased with the top tier HS studs coming to Duke. Regardless if they were one and done or stayed awhile the results have been good. Does Duke continue to prioritize the top 25 players or look for players that may stay a while. Do Duke prioritize two to three top tier transfers that can produce immediately?

This season has been an eye - opening.
I think this off-season should tell us a lot. Whitehead & Lively were OAD before they stepped foot on campus and that’s the deal you make when you land top 5 players. Flip is gone too no question. However, what about Mitchell, Proctor, & Roach? Lower tiered 5 star guys.

IMO if you can keep churning out the #1 class then do it and try to blend in guys like Blakes, Schutt, Young, & Reeves. Where I don’t want to be is in no-man’s land: where we have lower tiered 5 star guys leave as freshman (or Roach as a junior)This is where we would be if Mitchell, Proctor, & Roach all leave.

If we have another mass exodus, then it’s time to maybe try to build within and find all program guys. Easier said than done and not sure fans would be ready for the losing that would happen before the winning.
Either get the absolute top studs who actually contribute to winning as freshman or get 3 and 4 star guys who will be around a long time.
 

christophero

Heisman
May 2, 2017
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One OAD per year. 2 at most. The rest multiple year guys. Getting 5 top 20 guys is nice but they are only going to be there one year. This might sound crazy but get a few guys who are actually interested in attending college. Combine with 2 or 3 transfers.
 
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NCDomer1

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Sep 23, 2005
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The NIL has changed college basketball dramatically translating in borderland NBA prospects stay in college longer. The days of a mass exodus should calm down some just look at Bacot. He is driving around in $80k car and some endorsements prompting staying college another year and maybe a 5th year.
Duke is Duke they will continue the recruit five star talent . Now, a ploy might be help get endorsements encouraging them to stay in college. The likes of Flip should go pro, but unless Dariq catches on fire maybe NIL money would change his mind. I seen any where from lottery to late first round projections.
 

christophero

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I hear this a lot but 2 out of the last 3 years we have been losing a lot of games anyway. We cannot keep the Colemans and Brakefields because they know this program caters to one and dones. I think Jon may move away from this a little. If we can get Proctor and mitchell back some of my faith will be restored. If Roach moves on despite limited nba prospects it will be a bad look. Why don't guys want to stay at Duke? It is a legit question. The last 2 years has been crazy turnover. Sorry I am just grumpy the Bengals lost.
 
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Oct 6, 2022
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One OAD per year. 2 at most. The rest multiple year guys. Getting 5 top 20 guys is nice but they are only going to be there one year. This might sound crazy but get a few guys who are actually interested in attending college. Combine with 2 or 3 transfers.
The problem with capping OADs at 1 per year would be missing the package deal kids (Tyus/okafor, Carter/Trent, Boozer twins.)

My philosophy would be simple: I’d take all the top 10 overall kids in a class I could get (provided it made sense roster wise) and wouldn’t take a single kid outside of the top 10 if I suspected he would leave after 1 year.
So in a sense: maybe we are bringing in 2 or 3 top10 OADs a year and mixing in all multi year guys.
 

Duke Bluu

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Have to find more Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Jon Sheyer, Lance Thomas, Nolan Smith and Mark Williams players and have them surround a player like Kyrie, Zion, Banchero.

I think that 2011 team was the ideal blue print. That Kyrie Irving team was going to win it all if not for his injury.
 
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Have to find more Quinn Cook, Amile Jefferson, Jon Sheyer, Lance Thomas, Nolan Smith and Mark Williams players and have them surround a player like Kyrie, Zion, Banchero.

I think that 2011 team was the ideal blue print. That Kyrie Irving team was going to win it all if not for his injury.
While I agree in theory. The problem is the Cook, Jefferson, and Scheyers of today are DJ Steward & Cassius Stanley.
 

Mac9192

Heisman
Jan 25, 2017
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You can't forget the "Duke effect." The exposure given to Duke is ten fold what other programs get. We are going to lose kids that I don't think would leave if they played for most other schools.
I'm not sure there is a magic formula. Try to grab a few five star kids a season, sprinkled around four and 3 star kids?
The only 2 times Duke has gone to a final 4 in the last 8 seasons we had balance. The oad filled rosters of 17-19 probably had more talent. But you see what that got us.

I believe last season's team would have won it all had it not been for the attention K was getting.
 

jamsession3

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I wonder how much of that is us over recruiting them? Otherwise, good point. Wendell Moore is a good examples of a more recent guy in that mold who did stick around.
DJ and Stanley had bad timing. No different then Henry Coleman. If Coleman plays last year, we may not get other players. If Coleman is on this year's team, we might've won two more games and be 17 - 4.
 

christophero

Heisman
May 2, 2017
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The 2010 team was interesting. I don't think Scheyer, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas would be OAD today. Singler and Henderson probably. Possibly Mason would be OAD. I know Henderson left in 2009.
 

Duke Bluu

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The 2010 team was interesting. I don't think Scheyer, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas would be OAD today. Singler and Henderson probably. Possibly Mason would be OAD. I know Henderson left in 2009.

I often think about that. It doesn’t seem that long ago but the game has changed a great deal since then. Because you are right, players who maybe weren’t considered OAD during that time, maybe so today. But then again, no NIL back then. Does NIL potentially offset it some?
 

jamsession3

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The 2010 team was interesting. I don't think Scheyer, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas would be OAD today. Singler and Henderson probably. Possibly Mason would be OAD. I know Henderson left in 2009.
Mason's timing wasn't good for OAD. Had he came in the following year, he's gone. Henderson left because the fire was hot. Sadly, Henderson never developed into an all around guard, just a slasher.
 

jamsession3

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Moore and Williams were kind of in that sweet spot though. Top 20-30 guys. Hurt too. I know Hurt was top 15ish but he had obvious strength issues. Would Steward be OAD if he went to Illinois? It's like our guys get Duke NBA fever, and its contagious.
DJ was forced out. That's not even up for debate. If he went to IL, Underwood would've sent him away or he learns how to be a PG.
 

christophero

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Forced out by who? If so why didn't he just transfer? He hired an agent despite hardly being on any mock drafts. Steward was clearly better than Roach, so he probably would have started last year.
 
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JimboSlice00

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Need more than just one OAD, top 10-15 type of talent. I think Jon is slowly changing the way we recruit and I do think we will see more 4 stars staying 3-4 years. Let's not let this weak '22 class fool us. Elite recruiting is still very much needed year in and year out, maybe just not the sheer number of them each year.
 

timritterus

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Forced out by who? If so why didn't he just transfer? He hired an agent despite hardly being on any mock drafts. Steward was clearly better than Roach, so he probably would have started last year.
Yeah, I'd like to hear more about this. Certainly not the way I have heard it, but I guess it could be true. I fully believed Steward just had a dream of going pro and went with it. We didn't land Keels until he knew DJ was leaving, so I have a hard time seeing that being the reason he left. I'd like to hear more.
 

timritterus

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I agree with the comment of bringing back the lower ranked 5 stars and guys just below that. Honestly, it basically happened that way last year when we brought back Williams, Moore, and Roach. It may have felt somewhat similar this year if Keels had returned. That would have helped.

I also think if we are going to continue recruiting the top guys, we should try to target the ones who are the most physically mature. They seem to be the most ready from the start. Easier said than done, I know. But the difference between last years class and the year before was huge. Guys like AJ, Paolo, and Trevor were ready from the jump, even if they still had a learning curve. Cam Whitmore from this years class would've been that type of guy. He's a stud. (Admittedly Flip and Dariq fit the mold too)
 
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sheyduke

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The NIL has changed college basketball dramatically translating in borderland NBA prospects stay in college longer. The days of a mass exodus should calm down some just look at Bacot. He is driving around in $80k car and some endorsements prompting staying college another year and maybe a 5th year.
Duke is Duke they will continue the recruit five star talent . Now, a ploy might be help get endorsements encouraging them to stay in college. The likes of Flip should go pro, but unless Dariq catches on fire maybe NIL money would change his mind. I seen any where from lottery to late first round projections.
Bacot is a bad example . He is an old school front court player who might have been drafted in the second round and that’s a big might.
Whitehead was never coming back and no NIL is going to change that.
Players like Pack for Miami is who it benefits the most . Players who are going to be around for awhile to build an endorsement around .
Nil is only going to truly help the transfer portal players especially the upper tier ones .
 

sheyduke

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I find it very hard to believe that if Bascot, Timme, or Oscar went to Duke that they would make it to their senior year. Bolden went pro early for God's sake.
Yes but he also didn’t want to be in college either . Big difference when you speak on Bacot and Timme. Some also know that their NBA career will be limited and want to live it up in college . Especially the ones that can live like a boss on campus instead of at the end of a bench in the NBA .
 

christophero

Heisman
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So Duke basketball players don't live like a boss on campus? Have you seen the Duke basketball dorms? Oh damn Cindy Williams died. Always liked her. Laverne and Shirley.
 
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jamsession3

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Forced out by who? If so why didn't he just transfer? He hired an agent despite hardly being on any mock drafts. Steward was clearly better than Roach, so he probably would have started last year.
DJ wasn't a SG. Keels was coming in.
 

9dukejames

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Need more than just one OAD, top 10-15 type of talent. I think Jon is slowly changing the way we recruit and I do think we will see more 4 stars staying 3-4 years. Let's not let this weak '22 class fool us. Elite recruiting is still very much needed year in and year out, maybe just not the sheer number of them each year.
Pretty much agree with this comment. Nationally, the next two classes are not very strong either. So, the player rankings can be deceiving in terms of player impact at this level. The next great class appears to be the 25 class so yea Duke needs to hold on to marginal (doubtful) NBA players longer. I suggest that Duke has just had some bad luck in this regard. If guys get it in their head to go pro, come hell or high water what can you do? Even NIL won't help with that mindset. The current class will start to be telling in my mind. We can argue about which ones would be wiser to stay another year, but I think all of us can agree that not all 5 of the 5 stars in the 22 class are well positioned to be OND.
 

Liftee

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I think it is a given that going forward, the top 5 ranked guys will be mostly going pro so rankings will be diluted. A guy ranked #8 might have been #15 five years ago.

I'm OK with that, I really don't want a guy in college who doesn't buy into the rah-rah atmosphere, but we can't expect top ranked recruits to be team leaders anymore, especially when competing against a 5th year player.

I think Keels being on the fence so long prevented us from getting a top guard transfer. I wonder if Scheyer regrets waiting that long
 
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Something I always wonder: do the coaches know when they are recruiting a non top-10 five star if his intention is to only be in college for 1 year?
Just my opinion: I love Mark Mitchells attitude and game, but if he is only here 1 year, he never really gave much. He was an average ACC starter (at best) and now we have a void to fill for next year. Countless other examples from previous years too.

I also think it depends on expectations going into the year. Last years Duke team was title contenders all year and everyone knew that from the jump. Those teams can go more all hands on deck with borderline OAD’s like Keels. This year feels like a bridge year: meaning the goal should be to keep guys around (even if it results in maybe less winning) and mix those guys with stars coming in next year.
 
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sheyduke

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So Duke basketball players don't live like a boss on campus? Have you seen the Duke basketball dorms? Oh damn Cindy Williams died. Always liked her. Laverne and Shirley.
Your still missing the point . Timme wasn’t going first round , middle of the second and what’s his position in the league . Bacot the same . They weren’t like Keels with room to grow or AJ or Paolo. They might not even be drafted so why not stay , get a degree make some NIL money as the face of the team then throw your name into the draft. NIL wasn’t around when some of the Duke players made their head scratching moves ( Keels didn’t even care about NIL) . Not everybody on the team is benefiting either . I know Flip and Whitehead have a clothing endorsement, Roach the drink endorsement but haven’t heard of anyone else .